The Deal

[Luv2BFlyin]

Poor style of your rep to be talking about this outside of the committees. I give your rep more credit (and class) than that.

Where did shootr get his information that the AAI MC rejected GK's offer? He posted it Thurs. night and then deleted it shortly thereafter. Does he have an ALPA rep in his pocket, did he hear it in confidence from an airtran buddy and then go post it on a public forum, or did it come from one of your own? I agree, bad form no matter what.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=142746&page=4

 

[Flycatcher99]

I'm ready for this integration to be over so we don't have to keep hearing the word "synergies" anymore.

Yeah, well, that may be true, but the devil is in the details.

 

[waveflyer]

Where did you get that out of my post ? You're projecting again. You've
resorted to calling people names now ?

I have a great deal of respect for SWA. I always have. I think he'll do everything he can for you whilst trying to achieve the goal of a successful and speedy integration.

That doesn't sound like your average CEO.

Well put 2 & 2 together then. You have the chance to be integrated fairly. But it is your responsibility to recognize fair.

For the record "i" & "o" are right next to each other if "Dicki" is supposed to be worse than "dicko"-

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Well put 2 & 2 together then. You have the chance to be integrated fairly. But it is your responsibility to recognize fair.

For the record "i" & "o" are right next to each other if "Dicki" is supposed to be worse than "dicko"-

Wave, we all have a responsibility to recognize what is fair if we're given the opportunity to vote.

I thought Dicki was your term of endearment.

 

[Empennage]

Wave, we all have a responsibility to recognize what is fair if we're given the opportunity to vote.

I thought Dicki was your term of endearment.

This is a very good point L. You should be given that opportunity.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

This is a very good point L. You should be given that opportunity.

Just to be clear, the only way we'll vote on it is if our MC's deem it worthy. I'm fine with that, my MC speaks for me.

 

[Empennage]

Just to be clear, the only way we'll vote on it is if our MC's deem it worthy. I'm fine with that, my MC speaks for me.

Talking points

Yes they have an obligation (or duty) to fairly represent you. I would hope they give each and everyone of you an opportunity to decide your future, regardless of their opinion. Membership ratification is a very powerful tool.

To be fair, same goes for SWAPA and the SWAPA BOD. I would like an opportunity to vote on my future.

Just to be clear, anything else would be a cop-out.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Talking points

Yes they have an obligation (or duty) to fairly represent you. I would hope they give each and everyone of you an opportunity to decide your future, regardless of their opinion. Membership ratification is a very powerful tool.

To be fair, same goes for SWAPA and the SWAPA BOD. I would like an opportunity to vote on my future.

Just to be clear, anything else would be a cop-out.

Uh, that's the point, if thier opinion is that it's a good deal, we'll vote on it. If not, we won't. That's the point in having a merger/negotiating committee as opposed to all 7000 of us duking it out for position. Isn't it the same with you guys? Would your NC put out a proposal for a vote that in their opinion was not a good deal for you guys?

 

[saabcaptain]

It's complicated Luv2BFlying but in general yes, our BOD would only put out a good deal UNLESS... they felt the deal was the "best" offer considering the complicated environment, ie. legal issues, company issues, and career implications but wasn't necessarily what they expected everyone to call "good" and then they would put it out with all the pros & cons and say "we need you to decide now how we move forward because this is too critical."

The problem I think you'll find is that AirTran expectations aren't realistic in many ways, and that is frankly the fault of ALPA who has spent 6 months promising things that won't ever be delivered, not by SWAPA, not by a law, not by a contract, not by an arbitrator, and most certainly not by Gary Kelly and SWA. Based on everything I know about my company, what makes it unique, is our company will not allow our existing pilots to suffer delayed upgrades and the accompanying loss in pay, along with slowed progression in QOL to insert acquired pilots ahead of them, pilots already getting in some cases 80% pay and benefit raises along with massively improved QOL in terms of days off, domicile selection, work rules and so on. They won't allow it, and they will do whatever it takes in the end to protect us.

Someday I hope to see AirTran pilots as SWA pilots because when that happens, SWA will protect them and care for them in the same way. I LUV my company because they treat us like family.

 

[jonjuan]

It's complicated Luv2BFlying but in general yes, our BOD would only put out a good deal UNLESS... they felt the deal was the "best" offer considering the complicated environment, ie. legal issues, company issues, and career implications but wasn't necessarily what they expected everyone to call "good" and then they would put it out with all the pros & cons and say "we need you to decide now how we move forward because this is too critical."

The problem I think you'll find is that AirTran expectations aren't realistic in many ways, and that is frankly the fault of ALPA who has spent 6 months promising things that won't ever be delivered, not by SWAPA, not by a law, not by a contract, not by an arbitrator, and most certainly not by Gary Kelly and SWA. Based on everything I know about my company, what makes it unique, is our company will not allow our existing pilots to suffer delayed upgrades and the accompanying loss in pay, along with slowed progression in QOL to insert acquired pilots ahead of them, pilots already getting in some cases 80% pay and benefit raises along with massively improved QOL in terms of days off, domicile selection, work rules and so on. They won't allow it, and they will do whatever it takes in the end to protect us.

Someday I hope to see AirTran pilots as SWA pilots because when that happens, SWA will protect them and care for them in the same way. I LUV my company because they treat us like family.

You flew saabs then "earned" your job at sw? LOLOLOL..........

 

[waveflyer]

I think the point is there is a LOT of mis-trust of ALPA in this process. They've already recalled an alpa ideologue who continues to poison the well all over the internet, so it's not an altogether irrational concern. If alpa can drag this out another year- they will collect another $4,000,000 in dues, in addition to any good will they earn with other member airlines who want to see them stick it to SWA in any way they can. We lobby for a vote from the membership bc we want the lineholders to have their say and not alpa paid lawyers w/ undo influence.
Delta has a fledgling card campaign to rid themselves of DALPA- if everything goes smooth with us and we put competitive pressure on delta in ATL, what will that mean for alpa.
There's an undeniable conflict of interest and if I were an AT lineholder I'd want to make sure ulterior motives didn't have precedence over my career and money. If lineholders vote this down and it goes south, that's a whole lot easier todeal with than a frontier situation where they clearly got sold out.

 

[Empennage]

Uh, that's the point, if thier opinion is that it's a good deal, we'll vote on it. If not, we won't. That's the point in having a merger/negotiating committee as opposed to all 7000 of us duking it out for position. Isn't it the same with you guys? Would your NC put out a proposal for a vote that in their opinion was not a good deal for you guys?

That is really not the point, at least not in an absolute sense. In many cases it many be and I acknowledge this. However, the MEC has the ability to send out a package for membership ratification with a positive or negative recommendation. Meaning, it is up to the membership to vote and decided on the aforementioned product. Obviously this comes after some sort of education campaign which is vital to the vote.

Long story short, it may be better in the long run if the pilot group, as a whole, decides its future, versus a few elected representatives. Especially in light of something extremely substantial and of great importance.

 

[On Your Six]

It's complicated Luv2BFlying but in general yes, our BOD would only put out a good deal UNLESS... they felt the deal was the "best" offer considering the complicated environment, ie. legal issues, company issues, and career implications but wasn't necessarily what they expected everyone to call "good" and then they would put it out with all the pros & cons and say "we need you to decide now how we move forward because this is too critical."

The problem I think you'll find is that AirTran expectations aren't realistic in many ways, and that is frankly the fault of ALPA who has spent 6 months promising things that won't ever be delivered, not by SWAPA, not by a law, not by a contract, not by an arbitrator, and most certainly not by Gary Kelly and SWA. Based on everything I know about my company, what makes it unique, is our company will not allow our existing pilots to suffer delayed upgrades and the accompanying loss in pay, along with slowed progression in
QOL to insert acquired pilots ahead of them, pilots already getting in some cases 80% pay and benefit raises along with massively improved QOL in terms of days off, domicile selection, work rules and so on. They won't allow it, and they will do whatever it takes in the end to protect us.

Someday I hope to see AirTran pilots as SWA pilots because when that happens, SWA will protect them and care for them in the same way. I LUV my company because they treat us like family.

Talk about propaganda. Wow, this guy is nuts. Listen, you will get what the arbitrators award you. That's it. They will decide what is fair and what isn't. GK wants the deal done, and he could just point at the award and say his hands are tied. Get over yourselves.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

That is really not the point, at least not in an absolute sense. In many cases it many be and I acknowledge this. However, the MEC has the ability to send out a package for membership ratification with a positive or negative recommendation. Meaning, it is up to the membership to vote and decided on the aforementioned product. Obviously this comes after some sort of education campaign which is vital to the vote.

Long story short, it may be better in the long run if the pilot group, as a whole, decides its future, versus a few elected representatives. Especially in light of something extremely substantial and of great importance.

Absolutely. If you don't like the NC's deal, vote it down and make them go to arbitration. Seniority is forever. Yes, you could merge again with someone, but guys on the current list will be either ahead or behind you, until they retire. You deserve what is FAIR, and arbitrators can decide that without having any conflicts of interest.


OYS

 

[saabcaptain]

and the deal is NOW DONE AND AGREED ON and you'll get to vote on it and we will see if what ALPA promised so long ago is the solution. its your career, vote as you wish.

 

[Daddy]

Absolutely. If you don't like the NC's deal, vote it down and make them go to arbitration. Seniority is forever. Yes, you could merge again with someone, but guys on the current list will be either ahead or behind you, until they retire. You deserve what is FAIR, and arbitrators can decide that without having any conflicts of interest.


OYS

So said the guy who has absolutely NO skin in the game

 

[Ace McCoy]

The deal is done. If it still has the airtran FO's being stapled I don't need to see anything else. Voting NO

 

[saabcaptain]

Every airline goes through this, including SWA. We have in the past had some "unpopular" deals where "everyone" said they would vote "no" but magically it passes by 75%+. I predict both sides vote heavily in favor but many on both sides, well over 50% say they voted "no" when cockpit complaining to the guy/girl next to them.

 

[On Your Six]

So said the guy who has absolutely NO skin in the game

Am I making a decision for anyone? Anyone can give advice, but seniority is forever. I can see why some people on here are nervous. My advice is get a fair deal, which may come from arbitration.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

The deal is done. If it still has the airtran FO's being stapled I don't need to see anything else. Voting NO

You bet. If it isn't good, vote it down, and take it to arbitration if you need to. Look at recent awards, you might do better. Godspeed!


OYS