Obama and Corporate Jets

[cynic]

Ummm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds

 

[stupidpilot]

What about V1? V2? BFL? Gross climb gradient? Net climb gradient? MAC? You're a freakin moron cynic! BTW, when you retract the gear it has nothing to do with Vlo or Vle. Idiot!

 

[CapnVegetto]

I don't do seperate quotes so bear with me.....

You are correct.



Well they might, or they might not, or they might put money into the business by building a factory in Asia.

Quite true. That's another reason not to just blindly cut taxes.


That is the crux of the problem. Google terms like inflation adjusted median income or look here - http://www.census.gov/prod/2009pubs/p60-236.pdf (pg 7)

The middle class has lost buying power and the jobs are not coming back. So the question is, how do you increase the EARNING POWER of the traditionally middle class union worker that is now competing with slave labor in foreign lands.

Tarrifs? Isolationism / anti-globalization?

If you want to hike taxes on the rich the money should do something to help the middle class long term like improve access to education. I have no idea if that would help.

An idea not totally without merit, but it doesn't address demand. I had 2 friends that I played raquetball with graduated from college 2 years ago recently, and still couldn't find jobs. Both were living with their parents and one had a minimum wage suck job slinging boxes at Wal-Mart. Not exactly what you go to college for.

Access to education is good, but you could give every person in the country a PhD in whatever you want, and it still doesn't help CREATE jobs. All the education in the universe won't help anything if there is no demand.


A slight drop in the tax for the middle class won't do it. They are loosing ground. You could drop it down to 0 and it won't fix the problem.

I don't think taxes should be hiked on the rich. I consider myself a conservative so I disagree with about 95% of what you say, but the underlying problem we agree on.......politicians. Dems and Reps both are in bed with people, and are interested in nothing but keeping their positions, gaining power, gaining money, and kissing the right ass. Anyway, I digress.....

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in order for things to change, everyone might have to eat a little bit of sh-t sandwich. We know for a fact the guys in DC aren't going to do that. I like what the other guy said about term limits. Term limits would be a start in fixing a lot of this stuff, but it's not the ultimate solution. The only thing that would really fix the problem would be getting the right people in there that are not interested in money and power, but only interested in doing the right thing. Easier said than done. The people that have the power to change that are the crooks that are in there now, and we all know that positive changes in DC are going to happen about when I grow a third arm out of my ass and join the circus.

Obama is a great example of this. He campaigned on lots of happy dancing leprechaun gumdrop houses dancing elves crap, saying he was going to change things, be transparent, get rid of lobbyists, special interests, blah blah blah, and sure enough, over 2 years later, it's business as usual in DC both in the White House and in Congress. I have to admit, I almost bought his BS, too. While I vehemetly disagree with his asinine economic ideals, as well as his social justice crap and politics, at least maybe he'd be different. WRONG. It doesn't help much if we vote a Repub in come 2012, it'll just be more of the same. Huge tax breaks for rich people and corporations with no focus on rewarding for creating jobs and hiring. No addressing the main problem of lack of demand. What is the point anymore? Nobody is going to do the right thing.

Tariffs and anti-globalization might fix the problem over time, but I don't know that we could absorb the initial hit, not to mention all the third world manufacturing countries we'd piss off at the UN. The only way we could make it work would be to make it more expensive for companies that manufacture in foreign countries to ship, manufacture, and assemble their parts over there, then ship them back here, instead of just making them here. But how do you handle the logistics of that? We can't make EVERYTHING here. We don't have EVERY natural resource here. We have to import some stuff. Those companies will HAVE to import things to make thier products. How do you decide what gets taxed? Also, if we did this, the cost of a lot of goods would immediately skyrocket as the companies would have no choice but to pass these new costs on to the consumer. The economy would tank even more and/or there would be hyper-inflation.

There's just not a lot we can do at this point that is going to get us out of this painlessly. I'm afraid we've got some tough times ahead. Full socialism doesn't work any more than uninhibited capitalism. I forget who said it, but it's equally foolish to think you can have uninhibited libertarianism without anarchy even more than you can have uninhibited socialism without tyranny. As with most anything in the world, the right thing to do is somewhere in the middle. We have to dump some debt and create some demand. What that means, to me, is severely cutting spending, and severely cutting the RIGHT taxes. First, we need to put more money in peoples' pockets, and we also need to be some major league cutting of taxes on the rich on taxes that would encourage hiring and expansion. Cut payroll taxes. Offer big tax credits for hiring new employees. Not the paltry crap they are trying now, I mean REAL tax breaks that make enough of a difference on a company's balance sheet to where it is BETTER for them to hire than to not hire. How many people are unemployed now? 4 million or so? Get half of them back to work. People that work pay taxes. Revenue is lost from tax cuts, but is made up when people go back to work and start paying taxes.

I'd love to say raise taxes, but raising taxes hurts the economy. Normally, I'd agree. If you have bills to pay (i.e. the deficit), you work more to pay it off. But, you also have to do without sh-t, (i.e. cutting spending). Everybody is always all for cutting spending until you try to dip your finger in their pie. "Oh hey wait a minute!! Don't cut THAT!! Cut everything else!!" Nope, you have to cut EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. I've been in debt before. Pretty bad too. I did without sh-t. I'm now out of debt. Stuff has to be cut back, plain and simple. Defense, Medicare, Social Security, Entitlement, EVERYTHING. I don't care if it doesn't have anything to do with getting into debt, (i.e. SS, Medicare, etc.) I don't care if it's viewed as paltry (Corp jet tax, Ethanol subsidies, Big Oil tax breaks), it' DOESN'T FU-KING MATTER. CUT IT. CUT EVERYTHING. Fix your sh-t, then you can spend money again. Until your sh-t is fixed, you are CUT OFF.

It will piss everybody off, it will make politicians unpopular and make them lose their jobs, but so what? You dig in and do what the fu-k you have to do to make it work. This is America, we'll get through it. We have for 200 years.

Sure would be nice to see it happen, but we all know it won't.

 

[imacdog]

Ummm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds

Might want to read your own link and look up Vlo. Your priviledges of calling other people stupid are hereby revoked.

 

[bizjet800]

Might want to read your own link and look up Vlo. Your priviledges of calling other people stupid are hereby revoked.

I let him dig his own grave of stupidity.

 

[bizjet800]

Ummm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_speeds

Ummm...
Monkies 2, Seneca captain 0

 

[skypine69]

I love it when poor people defend rich people and argue that rich people should get richer.

 

[timmay]

I don't do seperate quotes so bear with me.....





There's just not a lot we can do at this point that is going to get us out of this painlessly. I'm afraid we've got some tough times ahead. Full socialism doesn't work any more than uninhibited capitalism. I forget who said it, but it's equally foolish to think you can have uninhibited libertarianism without anarchy even more than you can have uninhibited socialism without tyranny. As with most anything in the world, the right thing to do is somewhere in the middle. We have to dump some debt and create some demand. What that means, to me, is severely cutting spending, and severely cutting the RIGHT taxes. First, we need to put more money in peoples' pockets, and we also need to be some major league cutting of taxes on the rich on taxes that would encourage hiring and expansion. Cut payroll taxes. Offer big tax credits for hiring new employees. Not the paltry crap they are trying now, I mean REAL tax breaks that make enough of a difference on a company's balance sheet to where it is BETTER for them to hire than to not hire. How many people are unemployed now? 4 million or so? Get half of them back to work. People that work pay taxes. Revenue is lost from tax cuts, but is made up when people go back to work and start paying taxes.

I'd love to say raise taxes, but raising taxes hurts the economy. Normally, I'd agree. If you have bills to pay (i.e. the deficit), you work more to pay it off. But, you also have to do without sh-t, (i.e. cutting spending). Everybody is always all for cutting spending until you try to dip your finger in their pie. "Oh hey wait a minute!! Don't cut THAT!! Cut everything else!!" Nope, you have to cut EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. I've been in debt before. Pretty bad too. I did without sh-t. I'm now out of debt. Stuff has to be cut back, plain and simple. Defense, Medicare, Social Security, Entitlement, EVERYTHING. I don't care if it doesn't have anything to do with getting into debt, (i.e. SS, Medicare, etc.) I don't care if it's viewed as paltry (Corp jet tax, Ethanol subsidies, Big Oil tax breaks), it' DOESN'T FU-KING MATTER. CUT IT. CUT EVERYTHING. Fix your sh-t, then you can spend money again. Until your sh-t is fixed, you are CUT OFF.

It will piss everybody off, it will make politicians unpopular and make them lose their jobs, but so what? You dig in and do what the fu-k you have to do to make it work. This is America, we'll get through it. We have for 200 years.

Sure would be nice to see it happen, but we all know it won't.

Two problems, as you said politicians would lose their jobs and all the bennies they get from lobbists. Therefore that will never happen.

Second something has to be done about the outsourcing of middle class jobs. There is no way a US worker can compete with China and India. My wife's last employer outsourced almost the entire finance department to India, where they pay corporate accountants 6,000 a year. She was one of the last accountants stateside and spent the majority of her day fixing all of their mistakes.
So even if there is incentives for more hiring there need to be large taxes on companies that hire overseas. That is the only way I can think of to slow the trend that is ruining this country. When 60-70% of an economy is based on consumer spending the rich can't keep the economy afloat you have to have a strong middle class.

 

[CapnVegetto]

That makes a lot of sense, right along the lines of what I was saying. You have to make it more expensive tax wise for companies to outsource labor than to hire Americans. There are 2 problems though: lobbyists for corporations buying off the DC crooks to keep this from happening, and the economic stagnation and hyper inflation that would be caused by skyrocketing prices of goods as corporations attempt to pass those costs on to customers. It's a double edged sword no matter how you cut it.

 

[rigger]

This is the best thread ever for proof of how poor govt education has become in this country. Stalin had it right "control the education and you will control the country"

very few understand the basics of the economy, the constitution, the history of the republic and the concepts and work required for freedom.

As in america today, this thread has far to many having no real understanding of the basics of economics taught. Unlike 50 years ago they have zero capacity to understand something that is counter to what has been the replacement to the lessons of the past.

Those that do get it keep getting blasted not unlike those that said "hey you know the earth really is round" fact had no bearing on the discussion at hand because they are so invested in the "new" beliefs that fact, proof, and history has no merit....only feelings, and their knowledge that is far less than any time in recent history. Keep trying guys/gals but this generation is way way behind perhaps the next is starting to understand better lets hope.