CT's Email to ASA Pilots

[nerjdriver]

Spoken like a true idiot that doesn't understand how a company works. We will get more time off than any of us want if we go out of business. I want time off, and more than I get right now, but there is a happy balance out there guys.

Guys like you and attitudes like that will SCREW this JCBA and us. Get your head out of your a$$. This is NOT a career airline big guy, it's a regional, nobody cares if the pilots inflate their ego by trying to save this turd.

 

[nerjdriver]

I don't think it matters what we want at ASA. XJT isn't going to vote PBS in.

ASA guys can vote against it too man!!! Learn how we bid...youd be quite suprised.

 

[damnflyboy]

Please don't fall for this kaka-poo-poo. If the company wants to save money, they can streamline their redundant management/support operations in St. George and Atlanta. I know, I know. It will *never* happen. But until then, stop squeezing. This turd has no more moisture.

 

[ace6453]

Please don't fall for this kaka-poo-poo. If the company wants to save money, they can streamline their redundant management/support operations in St. George and Atlanta. I know, I know. It will *never* happen. But until then, stop squeezing. This turd has no more moisture.

Precisely, until they combine operations to save money, don't come crying to me to help.

 

[Ted]

Trying to compare some numbers I had from 2010.. it's harder to see exactly what we've got now that we're bidding in PBS though I can only see my plane and position.. I need some numbers

Number of lines + Reserve lines for:

Cr7 CA ATL
Cr7 CA DTW

Cr7 FO ATL: 200
Cr7 FO DTW

Crj CA ATL
Crj CA IAD

Crj FO ATL
Crj FO IAD


I'm interested in these numbers because it seems more useful to count pilots actively flying - i.e. awarded either a line or reserve. My numbers from last year exclude all pilots on leave, IPs, management pilots and other non flyers. Anyone care to help me out? PM me if you want.

What month do you want it for? Also, the reserve will be skewed. The company awards more than one line per each reserve "line" number. They just add multiple lines with the same number. I'll be glad to contribute anyway, if I know what month you already have data started for. I am assuming June, but you know what happens when you assume things.....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Guys like you and attitudes like that will SCREW this JCBA and us. Get your head out of your a$$. This is NOT a career airline big guy, it's a regional, nobody cares if the pilots inflate their ego by trying to save this turd.

If it isn't a career airline, then why try to get a good contract? Either it's worth getting a good contract (career possible and therefore also worth saving) or it isn't.

There are a lot of people making their careers here. Just because you think you are special Big D material doesn't make the whole pilot group want to follow the same path.

 

[JoeMerchant]

If it isn't a career airline, then why try to get a good contract? Either it's worth getting a good contract (career possible and therefore also worth saving) or it isn't.

There are a lot of people making their careers here. Just because you think you are special Big D material doesn't make the whole pilot group want to follow the same path.

Well said!

 

[ace6453]

If it isn't a career airline, then why try to get a good contract? Either it's worth getting a good contract (career possible and therefore also worth saving) or it isn't.

There are a lot of people making their careers here. Just because you think you are special Big D material doesn't make the whole pilot group want to follow the same path.

That's a fair point, however why should 3/4 of the list have to sacrifice so 1/4 can make this a career place?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

That's a fair point, however why should 3/4 of the list have to sacrifice so 1/4 can make this a career place?

I don't think anyone has to sacrifice. We just have to get with ALPA and have a clear goal.

 

[IBNAV8R]

That's a fair point, however why should 3/4 of the list have to sacrifice so 1/4 can make this a career place?

I have to wonder if some of you guys ever considered that this JUST MIGHT BE your career airline? I mean, are you absolutely 100% positive that you are moving on? Industry hiccup, consolidations, $150 oil, another 9/11 or being the victim of a fed or check airman with an agenda, and your entire future is tied to what you bargain for now.

You are betting your own future (and everyone else's) on the Kit Darby pipe dream that YOU might actually get a chance somewhere else and it will be everything the shiny UND/ERAU/Comair/GulfstreamAcademy brochures led you to believe. Great if that happens, but don't sell out what you have for what you THINK you can get.

 

[Clutch]

I have to wonder if some of you guys ever considered that this JUST MIGHT BE your career airline? I mean, are you absolutely 100% positive that you are moving on? Industry hiccup, consolidations, $150 oil, another 9/11 or being the victim of a fed or check airman with an agenda, and your entire future is tied to what you bargain for now.

You are betting your own future (and everyone else's) on the Kit Darby pipe dream that YOU might actually get a chance somewhere else and it will be everything the shiny UND/ERAU/Comair/GulfstreamAcademy brochures led you to believe. Great if that happens, but don't sell out what you have for what you THINK you can get.

There's a lot more out there than the airlines.

A lot of people get sucked into the seniority trap and the "it's not so bad here" mentality, ultimately turning into numbed-up drones who only get out of bed every morning because it's one day closer to age 65.

All I see is wasted potential.

 

[Av8trix616]

What month do you want it for? Also, the reserve will be skewed. The company awards more than one line per each reserve "line" number. They just add multiple lines with the same number. I'll be glad to contribute anyway, if I know what month you already have data started for. I am assuming June, but you know what happens when you assume things.....

June. If you go to Flica, and click on the "view all awards" it will give you all pilots, including each individual RES line. I need info for anything but CR7 ATL FO.

Thanks!

 

[wms]

ASA guys can vote against it too man!!! Learn how we bid...youd be quite suprised.

Do you get 7-10 days off in a row every month?

 

[outtahere]

We are better staffed now than prior to the PBS implementation, yet we are cancelling more flights due to lack of crew-members. You do the math. The assumption was that there would be little to no open time after the bid run, and that is far from reality.

We were able to secure an industry-leading PBS that lets a lot of people have a lot of time off. There is a happy balance somewhere, but it ain't here. I would prefer to work a little more, and keep the contract with Delta and United. (By work a little more, I mean work about the same amount as in line bidding, just being able to have more freedom with picking my days off.)

Management now has to decide if they want to try to change PBS, get rid of PBS altogether, use all of the language in the current agreement to get relief, or staff up to the new higher level required by PBS.

I think GoJets is hiring. They will let you work all you want, and you won't have a say in it at all. Good Luck.

The company has better lawyers than we do, they should have known what they were signing. Besides, if the problem isn't lack of pilots, then it's unproductive trips! It has to be one or the other.

 

[screamingpax]

Do you get 7-10 days off in a row every month?

Yes... And I have a week of vacation next month, which got me 25 days off....

 

[JumpersAway]

At least the pairing issue has been brought to light, and it is now on the radar with a focus to fix it. Regardless of PBS or line bidding- aweful line construction hemorages cash and ruins pilot morale. Garbage in, garbage out.......

Everything I've heard is that our girl in scheduling WANTS to be left alone to produce productive, high block lines. From what I understand, too many "fingers in the pie" is the reason it's getting messed up. I wish the company would just let her work. People can complain about ALPA all they want, but if it is one thing I know for sure, it's that they push for the max pay (utilization) and the fewest days at work.

I know there are wide and ranging views on the matter, but mine is that I don't care how many legs I fly in a day. I much prefer time off at home. If I fly more when I'm at work, with more days off at home with the family, that's what matters to me. Seven leg days are nuts, but it's the nature of this type of flying. What else do you expect with feeder service that consists of 30 minute legs on the -200? If I have to choose- give me the time off! Four day trips at 16 hrs of credit don't cut it!

Regarding this "not being a career airline"....what makes you think it is a "right" to move on? There are only a hand full of airlines left now, unlike the 80's, 90's, and early 2000's. Yes, I'd like to move on, but the truth of the matter is that it is earned, and that you have to compete to win the slot from the pilot next to you. Some of the people I've flown with have an attitude of entitlement that I'm thankful for- hope it shows in an interview. My odds get better! Don't get me wrong, I hope everyone gets their shot, but don't bash those that decide to make ASA home- different choices for different folks, and things just fit different for others.

It was interesting to see CT state that it appears as though there are "those who wish for our company to fail". I have yet to actually meet a pilot that TRULY wants this. If there are some, they have a mental health issue. Who is it that would honestly wish for unemployment. Geez, if it were that bad, they'd all punch out and quit, regardless of wheather we went out of business or not. I think he is misunderstanding the frustration of our pilot group. We care, just not enough to sacrifice our own mental health and a coronary over. There gets to be a point where people just resign themselves to coping with the status quo- and I think we have many that are there.

 

[777forever]

Yeah looks like the bid solution for July was much more efficient. Minimal opentime

 

[damnflyboy]

If this comes true, vote with your feet:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/2011-06-17-pilot-hiring-boom_n.htm

 

[nerjdriver]

Do you get 7-10 days off in a row every month?

I had 8 off in one period last month, a period of 7 this month, and i just looked it up and had a period of 7 off two months ago. So yes we do. If you think we do hard lines like ASA used to do them then you really need to educate yourself man.

 

[Redan]

It appears that we all need to educate ourselves. After speaking with several XJT pilots, some of whom are now here at ASA, it's clear that the line bidding system in use at XJT is quite different than the former system used at ASA. And considerably superior.

The PBS system at ASA is getting a bum rap. This is not because PBS is undesirable, but due to the weak contract language in the PBS LOA (as well as our contract). The LOA provides company with far too much latitude in pairing and line construction. We have been suffering with very poor quality pairing construction for a long time and frequently the pairings vary widely from one month to the next. The company's ability to manipulate pairings almost carte blanche, as well as the credit threshold is primarily responsible. As an example: July has lower credit pairings with a higher credit threshold. With our lame provisions for training credit, 16 hours credit for 4 days of training, or the equivalent of a 16 hour 4 day trip, the person with AQP such as myself gets pretty well shafted as the system looks to assign the minimum 90 hour credit threshold. With the lower credit trips available, this yields fewer days off for many of us. Since PBS was implemented, they've been all over the board with these variables producing little consistency from month to month. It's crucial to remember that this is not the fault of PBS but a symptom of a poor contract. This problem is what needs to be corrected with the JCBA.