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UAL MEC having MAJOR Problems--may oust MORSE--and could derail talks...

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General Lee

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
United pilots clash over chief
Union boss faces recall vote; her ouster could upset contract talks

By Julie Johnsson TRIBUNE REPORTER

The chairwoman of United Airlines’ pilots union could be ousted Monday in a dispute over the pace and tone of contract negotiations with the carrier’s management, sources told the Tribune.

Capt. Wendy Morse, the first woman to head a major U.S. pilots union, faces a recall vote as United’s Air Line Pilots Association leaders gather for a quarterly meeting in Chicago on Monday. Morse, through a spokesman, declined to comment.

A defeat of Morse could signal the start of labor strife that new United CEO Jeff Smisek has sought to avoid as he melds recently merged Continental Airlines and United into the world’s largest carrier and negotiates contracts with every employee group, analysts said. “I don’t see anything good coming out of this, if the idea is to get a joint collective bargaining agreement out in as short a period as possible,” said William Swelbar, labor expert with the MIT International Center for Air Transportation. “Recalling your master chairperson in the middle of negotiations is never good for continuity.”

The mayhem is unusual even for the cutthroat world of airline pilot politics, sources said. Morse survived a recall vote before she took office at the start of 2010. And the leaders of the union’s Washington, D.C., pilots’ council also face a recall vote on April 22 for aiding the effort to dump Morse. The turmoil is the result of a longstanding philosophical divide among United pilots over how best to deal with management and threatens to inflame divisions among Continental’s pilots, sources said.

The master executive council, whose members set policy and elect the union chairman and other officers, is almost evenly split between those who favor a get-tough approach to management and moderates who favor keeping channels of communication open and hammering out differences in private. The soft-spoken Morse, who is viewed as a moderate, is known as a master tactician with deep negotiating experience. She was elected over incumbent Steve Wallach by a single vote in 2009, sources said. She also faces re-election this October, which makes the timing of the recall vote puzzling to observers like Swelbar.

Wallach won a reputation as a firebrand in an unsuccessful campaign to oust then-CEO Glenn Tilton, and his sympathizers continue to hold powerful posts on the union’s executive and negotiating committees. The union lost much of its clout on Wallach’s watch, however, when United won a temporary restraining order against it for allegedly encouraging a “sick-out” by junior pilots.

Since United merged with Continental last year, frustration has grown among pilots over the deliberate pace of talks for a joint contract with management of United Continental Holdings Inc., the carriers’ Chicago-based parent company. United pilots are eager to get out of a bankruptcy-era contract that slashed average pay by about 40 percent.

The resolution to oust Morse came out of a no-confidence vote approved by the Washington council March 25, according to documents obtained by the Tribune. The measure claimed Morse was an ineffective leader who wasn’t using the union’s leverage to speed talks. Council chairman Steve Brashear didn’t return phone calls. “Whereas we continue to be saddled with the ‘wait and see’ responses from her with respect to our contract,” the resolution stated. “While we ‘wait and see,’ United management is saving millions of dollars on the backs of this labor group once again.”

Morse’s supporters claim she is being used as a scapegoat and that contract talks, while cumbersome, are moving forward. They raise the specter of US Airways, whose deeply divided pilots are stuck with a bankruptcy-era contract six years after merging with America West Airlines.

If the recall occurs, “what follows in terms of the culture between the pilots and United Airlines is going to make what is going on at US Airways look like a day at Disney World,” predicted a United pilot who asked not to be identified because he wasn’t authorized to speak publicly. “And anybody who thinks that a contract would result from the mayhem created by that culture is living in a fantasy land.”

United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy declined to comment on the imbroglio but said negotiations with pilots continue. Added David Kelly, an ALPA spokesman: “Our policy is not to discuss internal ALPA politics.” [email protected]

JOSÉ M. OSORIO/TRIBUNE PHOTO United Airlines pilots, shown picketing in 2010, will vote Monday whether to retain their union leader. Some pilots are disappointed over the deliberate pace of contract talks with the carrier.




I hope they get their acts together, get a better contract, and keep and then tighten the CAL Scope. Let's hope this does NOT become another USAir....



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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I said it as soon as they dumped wallach that their MEC was making a huge mistake. You don't put a "moderate" "soft-spoken" woman up against a team of animals. I hope they replace her quickly. The entire industry is counting on UAL. Otherwise we're stuck with that bullcrap the DL pilots negotiated as a benchmark.
 
Otherwise we're stuck with that bullcrap the DL pilots negotiated as a benchmark.

Hey, those were tough negotiations. Lee Moak spent a lot of time underneath Dick Anderson's desk "negotiating".

The rest of the DAL pilots didn't know it because they were busy polishing their uniform wings with carnauba wax.
 
Only SFO and IAD are involved in this. The rest of the LEC's are against it. Rediculous time for them to show the company we are not united. No pun intended.
 
I said it as soon as they dumped wallach that their MEC was making a huge mistake. You don't put a "moderate" "soft-spoken" woman up against a team of animals. I hope they replace her quickly. The entire industry is counting on UAL. Otherwise we're stuck with that bullcrap the DL pilots negotiated as a benchmark.
Actually that is exactly the person you want negotiating on your behalf. Loud mouths who puff out their chest always fail miserably.
 
Actually that is exactly the person you want negotiating on your behalf. Loud mouths who puff out their chest always fail miserably.

Like the General?
 
How long should negotiations last? two years, three, four?

What if an improvement could be made quickly with a two year term which could be improved again before the three years it takes to get the big one finally happens? And how much bigger will the contract be if it takes three years to get verse getting a short two year term one now?

Rapid incremental change beats radical change over a single time period.
 
I said it as soon as they dumped wallach that their MEC was making a huge mistake. You don't put a "moderate" "soft-spoken" woman up against a team of animals. I hope they replace her quickly. The entire industry is counting on UAL. Otherwise we're stuck with that bullcrap the DL pilots negotiated as a benchmark.

I remember having United+1 stickers on my bag after the UAL contract pre-9-11. Now we are actually up to United+30 percent. We have another contract coming up next year, and if you continue squabbling, it will be United+50 percent. Keep it up boys! Make nice and negotiate, or continue to make less than almost everyone else except Virgin America. And while you are at it, make sure the 744 and 777 are paid the same. It helps smooth things over with the other side. If you don't, you continue to look greedy. Also, remember SCOPE. Have a great one.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
I remember having United+1 stickers on my bag after the UAL contract pre-9-11. Now we are actually up to United+30 percent. We have another contract coming up next year, and if you continue squabbling, it will be United+50 percent. Keep it up boys! Make nice and negotiate, or continue to make less than almost everyone else except Virgin America. And while you are at it, make sure the 744 and 777 are paid the same. It helps smooth things over with the other side. If you don't, you continue to look greedy. Also, remember SCOPE. Have a great one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Gen Lee, let's be candid here. You are Post-Concessionary United+30. That's like being the taller midget.

I wish you guys luck with your contract. Perhaps get some UPS+1 stickers for your kitbag this time around.
 
Gen Lee, let's be candid here. You are Post-Concessionary United+30. That's like being the taller midget.

I wish you guys luck with your contract. Perhaps get some UPS+1 stickers for your kitbag this time around.

Didnt both of you go bankrupt? Delta has made up some of that loss forced upon them, while UAL hasn't done squat. Quit bragging Abernathy. Delta has the opportunity to continue to take back some of those lost pay and benefits, while you squabble like USAir. Didn't CAL management offer you Delta's contract, and you guys had to spend time thinking about it? I am so happy to be gone and now at my new home.


OYS
 
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Didnt both of you go bankrupt? Delta has made up some of that loss forced upon them, while UAL hasn't done squat. Quit bragging Abernathy. Delta has the opportunity to continue to take back some of those lost pay and benefits, while you squabble like USAir. Didn't CAL management offer you Delta's contract, and you guys had to spend time thinking about it? I am so happy to be gone and now at my new home.


OYS

True, but it came with DAL's scope....
 
Didnt both of you go bankrupt? Delta has made up some of that loss forced upon them, while UAL hasn't done squat. Quit bragging Abernathy. Delta has the opportunity to continue to take back some of those lost pay and benefits, while you squabble like USAir. Didn't CAL management offer you Delta's contract, and you guys had to spend time thinking about it? I am so happy to be gone and now at my new home.


OYS

Delta allowed 76 seat aircraft, relaxed scope. We are NOT about to allow that.
and we didn't need time to think about it, it was an easy no way. The company also sent this to the media, yeah real serious about negotiating. Anyway, enjoy your new home, I am going to fight to improve mine.
 
Delta allowed 76 seat aircraft, relaxed scope. We are NOT about to allow that.
and we didn't need time to think about it, it was an easy no way. The company also sent this to the media, yeah real serious about negotiating. Anyway, enjoy your new home, I am going to fight to improve mine.

That just shows how crappy the Delta contract is, when CAL management uses it as their OPENER!!!:puke:
 
Gen Lee, let's be candid here. You are Post-Concessionary United+30. That's like being the taller midget.

I wish you guys luck with your contract. Perhaps get some UPS+1 stickers for your kitbag this time around.


You guys still carry "kitbags ???":eek:

Sheeesh

PHXFLYR :cool:
 
I remember having United+1 stickers on my bag after the UAL contract pre-9-11. Now we are actually up to United+30 percent. We have another contract coming up next year, and if you continue squabbling, it will be United+50 percent. Keep it up boys! Make nice and negotiate, or continue to make less than almost everyone else except Virgin America. And while you are at it, make sure the 744 and 777 are paid the same. It helps smooth things over with the other side. If you don't, you continue to look greedy. Also, remember SCOPE. Have a great one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Really General? How about +20%, if you add in the B fund you are +15%. How many CRJ900's/EMB-175's are flying Delta colors? Yea, I know they only have 76 seats. DAL scope is the worst among it's peers (Limit 254 76 seaters with a 900 mile range). We may be taking longer to negotiate because we're trying to get the scope back that UAL/DAL gave away in BK. You guys actually gave more scope relief in your post BK/merger contract.
 
I remember having United+1 stickers on my bag after the UAL contract pre-9-11. Now we are actually up to United+30 percent. We have another contract coming up next year, and if you continue squabbling, it will be United+50 percent. Keep it up boys! Make nice and negotiate, or continue to make less than almost everyone else except Virgin America. And while you are at it, make sure the 744 and 777 are paid the same. It helps smooth things over with the other side. If you don't, you continue to look greedy. Also, remember SCOPE. Have a great one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hysterical. Figures that Scope is the last thought. A DAL pilot lecturing me on scope is about as pious as Jimmy Swaggart. So you are parking 50's congrats. High oil would of done that anyways.

BTW how many 70's did Rev Bedford just add? Special thanks from those of us trying to kill that cancer. Sure helps our cause in front of the NMB. Hope your boy Lee Moak is enjoying the steaks @ The Capital Grille on Pennsylvania Ave.
 
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Hysterical. Figures that Scope is the last thought. A DAL pilot lecturing me on scope is about as pious as Jimmy Swaggart. So you are parking 50's congrats. High oil would of done that anyways.

BTW how many 70's did Rev Bedford just add? Special thanks from those of us trying to kill that cancer. Sure helps our cause in front of the NMB. Hope your boy Lee Moak is enjoying the steaks @ The Capital Grille on Pennsylvania Ave.


There has always been a limit on 76 seaters, and they had NOT hit that yet. Do you guys have a limit? And high oil is starting to park our 50 seaters, but not yours. Why is that? I did like your attempt at stopping the 70 or 76 seaters at CAL hubs, only to have them go under the UAL Express banner. That CEO of yours sure did get around that CAL scope clause.

And another problem you are starting to have is the 70 seat prop---the large Dash. You have no limits on those, and it already took most of the EWR 737-500 routes, and will do the same in IAH and probably IAD (this Summer) and ORD. Keep trying to kill that cancer, but you really have a long way to go, and your problem is a lot worse than ours, even if we started it. Get to work, and that means STARTING WITH PLAYING NICE WITH EACH OTHER---UAL AND CAL PILOTS. We did that, and it is already starting to pay off.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
. You guys actually gave more scope relief in your post BK/merger contract.

Really? Who needs facts.....This is FI...

Delta raised the scope to both merged airlines limits....that's all....that is NOT scope relief, it was status quo. Even though the contract says DELTA, that was the limts placed on BOTH NWA and DAL contracts pre-merger.

Not defending any scope issues we have created, just pointing out FI ignorance being claimed as fact.
 
There has always been a limit on 76 seaters, and they had NOT hit that yet. Do you guys have a limit? And high oil is starting to park our 50 seaters, but not yours. Why is that? I did like your attempt at stopping the 70 or 76 seaters at CAL hubs, only to have them go under the UAL Express banner. That CEO of yours sure did get around that CAL scope clause.

Gotta refer to the UAL guys since I carry their chains now, but we are not far from hitting cap on regional flying. With the capacity cutbacks coming I don't know how things will shake out till the fall. UAL is slated to park 22 50's and add 9 Q's for a net reduction of 13. BTW not one 70 seater or god forbid 76 seater has been added YTD. Can you guys say that?

Sismek is paying the price for his ego and not having the CAL code. Load factors have been weak out of CAL hubs and even some subing of 50 seaters has occurred. I have no doubt the games are far from finished with Harvard Law man.

And another problem you are starting to have is the 70 seat prop---the large Dash. You have no limits on those, and it already took most of the EWR 737-500 routes, and will do the same in IAH and probably IAD (this Summer) and ORD. Keep trying to kill that cancer, but you really have a long way to go, and your problem is a lot worse than ours, even if we started it. Get to work, and that means STARTING WITH PLAYING NICE WITH EACH OTHER---UAL AND CAL PILOTS. We did that, and it is already starting to pay off.
Bye Bye---General Lee
The Q's are a problem, but they have done a lot more RJ replacement then 737 overall. Given how Colgan runs and passenger opinion they can only be made so large. That is not to say we shouldn't deal with them, but the biggest threat to my career remains Republic and Skywest.

As for the rest of the speech GL, we have been playing nice with other for a few months. Wendy's problem is internal on the United side and has nothing to do with the pay issues of last fall. It's all about impatience at not getting a deal done. In that regard the biggest problem is the company dragging it's feet to the max in front of the NMB. You can't do jack under the RLA when management exploits it. Same thing would of happened at your house if Richard Anderson chose that tact. In fact you can expect that in a couple of years and good luck trying to slow down like Summer '01.

Rumblings are that scope is going to be a non starter for the company. They want bare minimum UAL scope applied across the entire new airline. We all know the major problem with that. The fact that our biggest competitor even allowed 90 seat cabins on property makes our job significantly harder.
 
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