UAL MEC having MAJOR Problems--may oust MORSE--and could derail talks...

[Abernathy]

I think I may have confused some of you guys. I am NOT a United Pilot.

 

[redflyer65]

and keep and then tighten the CAL Scope.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You mean like you didn't keep scope "tight"?

The taller midget....I love it.

 

[nimtz]

I remember having United+1 stickers on my bag after the UAL contract pre-9-11. Now we are actually up to United+30 percent. We have another contract coming up next year, and if you continue squabbling, it will be United+50 percent. Keep it up boys! Make nice and negotiate, or continue to make less than almost everyone else except Virgin America. And while you are at it, make sure the 744 and 777 are paid the same. It helps smooth things over with the other side. If you don't, you continue to look greedy. Also, remember SCOPE. Have a great one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hysterical. Figures that Scope is the last thought. A DAL pilot lecturing me on scope is about as pious as Jimmy Swaggart. So you are parking 50's congrats. High oil would of done that anyways.

BTW how many 70's did Rev Bedford just add? Special thanks from those of us trying to kill that cancer. Sure helps our cause in front of the NMB. Hope your boy Lee Moak is enjoying the steaks @ The Capital Grille on Pennsylvania Ave.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Delta MEC let the cancer out of the bag in 1992. Thanks guys way to go.

 

[eaglesview]

Yup,
They may have let the scope go but we at UAL were the spear head for the concesionary contracts.

 

[General Lee]

You guys still carry "kitbags ???"

Sheeesh

PHXFLYR

Nope, we have Jepp kits in the plane now.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Hysterical. Figures that Scope is the last thought. A DAL pilot lecturing me on scope is about as pious as Jimmy Swaggart. So you are parking 50's congrats. High oil would of done that anyways.

BTW how many 70's did Rev Bedford just add? Special thanks from those of us trying to kill that cancer. Sure helps our cause in front of the NMB. Hope your boy Lee Moak is enjoying the steaks @ The Capital Grille on Pennsylvania Ave.

There has always been a limit on 76 seaters, and they had NOT hit that yet. Do you guys have a limit? And high oil is starting to park our 50 seaters, but not yours. Why is that? I did like your attempt at stopping the 70 or 76 seaters at CAL hubs, only to have them go under the UAL Express banner. That CEO of yours sure did get around that CAL scope clause.

And another problem you are starting to have is the 70 seat prop---the large Dash. You have no limits on those, and it already took most of the EWR 737-500 routes, and will do the same in IAH and probably IAD (this Summer) and ORD. Keep trying to kill that cancer, but you really have a long way to go, and your problem is a lot worse than ours, even if we started it. Get to work, and that means STARTING WITH PLAYING NICE WITH EACH OTHER---UAL AND CAL PILOTS. We did that, and it is already starting to pay off.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

. You guys actually gave more scope relief in your post BK/merger contract.

Really? Who needs facts.....This is FI...

Delta raised the scope to both merged airlines limits....that's all....that is NOT scope relief, it was status quo. Even though the contract says DELTA, that was the limts placed on BOTH NWA and DAL contracts pre-merger.

Not defending any scope issues we have created, just pointing out FI ignorance being claimed as fact.

 

[densoo]

The chairwoman of United Airlines’ pilots union could be ousted Monday in a dispute over the pace and tone of contract negotiations with the carrier’s management, sources told the Tribune.

Is there any news on this?

 

[nimtz]

There has always been a limit on 76 seaters, and they had NOT hit that yet. Do you guys have a limit? And high oil is starting to park our 50 seaters, but not yours. Why is that? I did like your attempt at stopping the 70 or 76 seaters at CAL hubs, only to have them go under the UAL Express banner. That CEO of yours sure did get around that CAL scope clause.

Gotta refer to the UAL guys since I carry their chains now, but we are not far from hitting cap on regional flying. With the capacity cutbacks coming I don't know how things will shake out till the fall. UAL is slated to park 22 50's and add 9 Q's for a net reduction of 13. BTW not one 70 seater or god forbid 76 seater has been added YTD. Can you guys say that?

Sismek is paying the price for his ego and not having the CAL code. Load factors have been weak out of CAL hubs and even some subing of 50 seaters has occurred. I have no doubt the games are far from finished with Harvard Law man.

And another problem you are starting to have is the 70 seat prop---the large Dash. You have no limits on those, and it already took most of the EWR 737-500 routes, and will do the same in IAH and probably IAD (this Summer) and ORD. Keep trying to kill that cancer, but you really have a long way to go, and your problem is a lot worse than ours, even if we started it. Get to work, and that means STARTING WITH PLAYING NICE WITH EACH OTHER---UAL AND CAL PILOTS. We did that, and it is already starting to pay off.
Bye Bye---General Lee

The Q's are a problem, but they have done a lot more RJ replacement then 737 overall. Given how Colgan runs and passenger opinion they can only be made so large. That is not to say we shouldn't deal with them, but the biggest threat to my career remains Republic and Skywest.

As for the rest of the speech GL, we have been playing nice with other for a few months. Wendy's problem is internal on the United side and has nothing to do with the pay issues of last fall. It's all about impatience at not getting a deal done. In that regard the biggest problem is the company dragging it's feet to the max in front of the NMB. You can't do jack under the RLA when management exploits it. Same thing would of happened at your house if Richard Anderson chose that tact. In fact you can expect that in a couple of years and good luck trying to slow down like Summer '01.

Rumblings are that scope is going to be a non starter for the company. They want bare minimum UAL scope applied across the entire new airline. We all know the major problem with that. The fact that our biggest competitor even allowed 90 seat cabins on property makes our job significantly harder.

 

[General Lee]

Really General? How about +20%, if you add in the B fund you are +15%. How many CRJ900's/EMB-175's are flying Delta colors? Yea, I know they only have 76 seats. DAL scope is the worst among it's peers (Limit 254 76 seaters with a 900 mile range). We may be taking longer to negotiate because we're trying to get the scope back that UAL/DAL gave away in BK. You guys actually gave more scope relief in your post BK/merger contract.

Our DC fund is at 14% per pay check I believe, and with our higher pay, that means our B Fund is growing a lot faster than yours, even if yours is at a slightly higher %. And we have a set cap for 70 or 76 seaters, whereas you do not, and now they are spilling into EWR via the United Express banner (TCF E175s). Add the Dash-8-400s invading IAD starting this Summer, and you have a BIGGER problem. But, your first priority is to get together and get a joint contract that helps you and then allows the rest of us to keep it going from there.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[catIIIc]

General you are wrong, we have no EMB-175's only 170's and they were taken from the current UAX route structure, not one new RJ has been brought on the property since the announcement, and yes the 70 seaters are limited and they are at that limit right now.

The reason we have not parked 50 seaters is because they do not have 70 seaters to replace them with, actually XJT is hiring like mad right now because of our Scope win because CAL/UAL just dumped a whole bunch of block hours on them that were supposed to be 70 seaters.

The Q's are a problem who would of thought our management would but a TP on large business routes like EWR-DCA,BOS, IAH-AUS,SAT but that just shows you how clueless our management is. You worry about your contract and we will worry how we have to convince the NMB that Delta's Scope is not the status quo in the industry.

 

[chppr5]

Our DC fund is at 14% per pay check I believe, and with our higher pay, that means our B Fund is growing a lot faster than yours, even if yours is at a slightly higher %. And we have a set cap for 70 or 76 seaters, whereas you do not, and now they are spilling into EWR via the United Express banner (TCF E175s). Add the Dash-8-400s invading IAD starting this Summer, and you have a BIGGER problem. But, your first priority is to get together and get a joint contract that helps you and then allows the rest of us to keep it going from there.


Bye Bye---General Lee

DAL has a 2% 401K and an 11% B fund which equals 13%, your 76 seat cap is 254 aircraft and that can be increased by 3 for every 1 narrow body you add to the fleet. Why don't you get acquainted with your own contract before you stick your nose into ours.

 

[chppr5]

Really? Who needs facts.....This is FI...

Delta raised the scope to both merged airlines limits....that's all....that is NOT scope relief, it was status quo. Even though the contract says DELTA, that was the limts placed on BOTH NWA and DAL contracts pre-merger.

Not defending any scope issues we have created, just pointing out FI ignorance being claimed as fact.

So you relaxed it to the level of the least restrictive of the 2 airlines. What about ability to add 3 70 seaters for every 1 additional narrow body? Whose contract was that in before the merger contract? I believe that's scope relief. No wonder you got a contract right away, management was foaming at the mouth when DALPA was happy to give away more flying.

 

[On Your Six]

General you are wrong, we have no EMB-175's only 170's and they were taken from the current UAX route structure, not one new RJ has been brought on the property since the announcement, and yes the 70 seaters are limited and they are at that limit right now.

The reason we have not parked 50 seaters is because they do not have 70 seaters to replace them with, actually XJT is hiring like mad right now because of our Scope win because CAL/UAL just dumped a whole bunch of block hours on them that were supposed to be 70 seaters.

The Q's are a problem who would of thought our management would but a TP on large business routes like EWR-DCA,BOS, IAH-AUS,SAT but that just shows you how clueless our management is. You worry about your contract and we will worry how we have to convince the NMB that Delta's Scope is not the status quo in the industry.

So the General got the type of Emb wrong, no biggie there. But, having them fly EWR to ATL for "United Express", now that is a biggie. And those Q's will continue to bite you. But what the General is probably saying is that you need to get your own act together. The more you guys fight against each other, the longer this goes on, the more scope you lose. And while Delta's scope seems to be status quo, let's hope your pay scales don't become status quo as well for legacies. It's time for you to man up and shake hands between pilot groups, and go for more pay and benefits, so the rest of us can spring off of that. Your arguing means more profits in the hands of managements EVERYWHERE. Thanks for that.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

DAL has a 2% 401K and an 11% B fund which equals 13%, your 76 seat cap is 254 aircraft and that can be increased by 3 for every 1 narrow body you add to the fleet. Why don't you get acquainted with your own contract before you stick your nose into ours.

Didn't it go up to 14% this last Jan? Also, that 76 seat cap cannot go up until mainline has more airplanes, and it would have to be a lot more. I think there is an exact number of mainline planes needed. Maybe Bill Lumberg or ACL could bring in the actual number. I think you are the one who is confused. And BTW, your pay stinks. Thank God I am not flying there anymore.


OYS

 

[texman]

Oys, you sound so civil on this thread. I hope you grow up and stop hating on AT/SWA's operation. I think you need to stay out of ual's biz too. U are just acting like a nerd. Get off the computer. Don't lable your self as a old man, that's a hater.

 

[eaglesview]

Didn't it go up to 14% this last Jan? Also, that 76 seat cap cannot go up until mainline has more airplanes, and it would have to be a lot more. I think there is an exact number of mainline planes needed. Maybe Bill Lumberg or ACL could bring in the actual number. I think you are the one who is confused. And BTW, your pay stinks. Thank God I am not flying there anymore.


OYS

As one who still is flying "there" let me be the first to say, "thank God your not flying here anymore." What upbeat fun guy you seem like. Oh to be locked up in a cockpit with you for four days!!!

 

[Deerkiller]

So the General got the type of Emb wrong, no biggie there. But, having them fly EWR to ATL for "United Express", now that is a biggie. And those Q's will continue to bite you. But what the General is probably saying is that you need to get your own act together. The more you guys fight against each other, the longer this goes on, the more scope you lose. And while Delta's scope seems to be status quo, let's hope your pay scales don't become status quo as well for legacies. It's time for you to man up and shake hands between pilot groups, and go for more pay and benefits, so the rest of us can spring off of that. Your arguing means more profits in the hands of managements EVERYWHERE. Thanks for that.


OYS

CAL and UAL pilots are NOT fighting each other. All of the pay-banding issues have been resolved. This thread is about Morse being under attack. There is only UAL on UAL fighting right now.

 

[Hamfighter]

Just remember, no airline can be profitable without regional affiliates.