NJ to JB...

[crjdude]

Would you leave Netjets for jetblue?
Why? Why not?

Thanks

crjdude

 

[LAZYB]

Would you leave Netjets for jetblue?
Why? Why not?

Thanks

crjdude

If you're a Capt @ NJA - YES

 

[Downwind]

Would you leave Netjets for jetblue?
Why? Why not?

Thanks

crjdude

Three years ago, no way. Today, I think it is a roll of the dice. Who knows what DS is going to do to this company.



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[dudemize]

I left JB in 2007 to go to NJA. Worked out great for a couple years, but I'm not looking too smart now.

Having said that, it would be a very tough decision. If you lived in NYC or Boston (or were willing to move there), I would lean towards giving it a shot. If you were going to be commuting, I would probably hang tight. No one knows what the future holds for either company. Airline merger mania is probably not over and who knows what NJA will look like 10 yrs from now. I think it will be smaller than it is now, so depending on where you are on the list, that will certainly play a huge part in any decisions.

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[BeachBummer]

This is like the thread about kalitta or atlas for JB. Very different operations. It's a personal choice for what may be right for your situation. Have you interviewed with JB yet? did you get an offer? weigh the fiscal benefits right now and look into the magic crystal. You'll know in about 20-40yrs if you chose right.

This industry is so F'ed up that you could have every type rating under the sun and still be broke and looking for work. the only way to make it is to find a company that might make it and hang tight.

if you hate your job at nj and don't like the pricks you are serving, give it a whirl. if you can stand it and can get through the day keep your seniority and live with it. it's a job. enjoy days off in real life.

 

[rjpilot7667]

I came to jetblue about 6 month ago from a fortune 50, so my decision was a bit like yours. The company is great and guys I fly with are pretty cool. I took a six figure pay cut so by comparison the money is tough and the reserve trips as a junior FO are pretty bad too.

On the bright side, the longer I'm here the better things will get. If you live near JFK or BOS i'd give it a shot at JB; if not I'd think long and hard about becoming a commuter. They have a permanent tired look that I don't envy but will know how it feels when I become a commuter later this year.

 

[milehigh6080]

I didn't really have the luxury of an option, since Sokol decided my services were no longer necessary back in January. I spent my whole career avoiding 121 carriers because of the relative stability I percieved at NetJets compared to the airlines - that didn't work out so well for me and here I am at Blue.

On a day to day basis, I love it here compared to NetJets. The pace of the work day is much much . . . much easier because there is more of a crew working together to get the plane pushed off the gate as opposed to NetJets where we did everything. One nice benefit- I never have to sit and rot in FBOs while backing up the entire Northeast. The guys are all good to fly with and the airplanes and people are nice. I don't commute, but even so, my 2 hour drive to the airport is a major drag compared to the 30 min drive I had at NJA.

If you're a captain at NJA, that's going to be a very tough decision. I wouldn't count on upgrading at JetBlue for a very long time. We have a young pilot group and the growth is very small and incremental, not the kind of thing that will drive a quick upgrade. Pay is a little more lucrative here, but on the flip side, there's a lot more expense out of pocket as an employee here. Smaller uniform allowance, expensive and crappy health care as opposed to free gold plated health care, etc. If you're on the 15 or 18 day and are getting some 12+ hour days and an after midnight here and there, the pay is probably completely a wash. As a captain, you'll take a pay cut, obviously, and could probably replace your income as around a 6 or 7 year FO here, maybe. Is it worth it to you to jump from NJA and wait 6-7 years just to get back where you are?

Personally, if I were in the left seat at NJA, I wouldn't come to JetBlue. I really like it here and am likely to tell NJA to pound sound if they ever recall me, but without a union or CBA or a seat at the table in a transaction, there are a lot of "what ifs" here. With any luck, that'll be addressed soon and it'll make it less of a gamble, but leaving a good job to come to a non-union carrier in the midst of merger mania is a little bit crazy, in my opinion. Everyone will be hiring soon and if I were you, I'd wait for Delta, United, FedEx, etc. You're not going to lose your job tomorrow and you have some time to spare, no need to rush to the first decent airline that is hiring.

 

[milehigh6080]

if you hate your job at nj and don't like the pricks you are serving, give it a whirl.

I personally found that to be a major misconception about the pax at NJA. In my experience there, 3.5 years, a prick passenger was very very rare. In most cases, they were very pleasant, gracious and were really no problem at all. On any random given flight I do at JBU, there are more pricks on that flight than I encountered in my entire time at NJA- on a flight between HPN and PBI and you'll encounter more pricks than you would in a whole career at NJA. YMMV, it's possible that pax personalities at NJA are fleet specific and I was just lucky enough to be on a "humble" fleet.

 

[scrub]

I would go back to school and become an orthodontist!!! More time off and way more money, and have you seen the chicks that work at these offices? way hotter than most FAs!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lake Alice]

Left NJA for B6. Never looked back. I bid for trips, days off, overnights, etc. That to me is quality of life, not 7 on/7 off or any combination there of. Perks like crew meals were great but here my family knows exactly where I am and when I will be home. Hard to put a price on that. NJA is a good company and I won't put it down since it got me where I wanted to be but I would choose B6.

 

[G4dude]

If u r a captain at NJA, stay. If an FO, go to JB. The Oracle has spoken.

 

[johnsonrod]

If u r a captain at NJA, stay. If an FO, go to JB. The Oracle has spoken.

I agree with this assessment. Upgrade time could take a long while at JB and you would miss out on Capt pay at NJA during that time. QOL is relative. NJA is still the industry leader despite the changes and who knows whether JB will be integrated into another airline in the future - you never know in this business.....

That said, if you are just sick on the fractional business, ad hoc flying, 7+ day tours, etc., then by all means go to JB.

 

[sshrae]

if you hate your job at nj and don't like the pricks you are serving, give it a whirl.

I personally found that to be a major misconception about the pax at NJA. In my experience there, 3.5 years, a prick passenger was very very rare. In most cases, they were very pleasant, gracious and were really no problem at all. On any random given flight I do at JBU, there are more pricks on that flight than I encountered in my entire time at NJA- on a flight between HPN and PBI and you'll encounter more pricks than you would in a whole career at NJA. YMMV, it's possible that pax personalities at NJA are fleet specific and I was just lucky enough to be on a "humble" fleet.

Great point, I agree 100 percent, I used to fly for a lcc and my experience was the same. I can think of only one prick passenger at nja out of maybe a thousand. As far as leaving for jetblue, jb's new payscale looks pretty good, especially if you live in base. Good luck either way.

 

[clickclickboom]

Spent 8 years at corporate wings/flight options..

Knew that the business model would not be sustainable and when i say that i am referring to the entire frac industry.. Decided a seniority number was better to obtain then a hope that flops would make it long term

Loved the frac flying and adventure it provided.. Now i cant begin to imaging doing 7 day tours.. 4 days max for me now QOL is better and i have the ability to bid for family needs.

In year 6 FO on the bus will make 140-150k this year and average 16 days off and 50 % of weekends off if i dropped to min sked would make 90-100k have 18-19 days off and every weekend.

junior sked subtract 30-40k add 2-3 more days

 

[StarHustler]

In year 6 FO on the bus will make 140-150k this year and average 16 days off and 50 % of weekends off if i dropped to min sked would make 90-100k have 18-19 days off and every weekend.

And this is EXACTLY why I would leave my Part 135 Charter Captain position to take a year One F.O. job. I am OVER not having a life and begging rich people that own a jet to pay their crew an appropriate wage.

 

[JetFumes]

Spent 8 years at corporate wings/flight options..

Knew that the business model would not be sustainable and when i say that i am referring to the entire frac industry.. Decided a seniority number was better to obtain then a hope that flops would make it long term

Loved the frac flying and adventure it provided.. Now i cant begin to imaging doing 7 day tours.. 4 days max for me now QOL is better and i have the ability to bid for family needs.

In year 6 FO on the bus will make 140-150k this year and average 16 days off and 50 % of weekends off if i dropped to min sked would make 90-100k have 18-19 days off and every weekend.

junior sked subtract 30-40k add 2-3 more days

Do you mind explaining to me how you do this. I am out in LGB, and without including perdiem or company matching, I'm not sure how you can make 150k with the productivity as it is.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Do you mind explaining to me how you do this. I am out in LGB, and without including perdiem or company matching, I'm not sure how you can make 150k with the productivity as it is.

You'd just have to average 114 hours a month. It’s certainly possible if you're aggressive picking up deadheads and other soft time. A number of local guys at JFK are able to do it on a consistent basis. Most of them don't feel the need to talk about it..........

 

[aewanabe]

In other words, live at the airport, be on Crew Services' "special" list, etc.... Come on, we all average 100 plus hours of credit, don't we?

Sour grapes aside, I have 2 friends that have made the NJ to JB transition. They both seem happy, and despite my focus on what needs to be better for ALL of us, there's lots good about working here.

 

[ttuite]

This industry is so F'ed up that you could have every type rating under the sun and still be broke and looking for work.

Amen to that......

 

[Caveman]

You'd just have to average 114 hours a month. It’s certainly possible if you're aggressive picking up deadheads and other soft time. A number of local guys at JFK are able to do it on a consistent basis. Most of them don't feel the need to talk about it..........

If you live in base, are senior enough to hold the DH trips, pick-up RSA's, and are FLICA whore you can easily average 114 hours a month, but you can't do that and still have half the weekends and 16 days off a month as he claims.

A more realistic expectation for a reasonably senior A320 FO is $105-115K and 14 days off per month. Not bad, but no where near what CCB claims he's getting. I am a reasonably senior FO and I'm on the low side of the $105-115K window but I bid commutability over productivity. If I lived in base I think I would be closer to $115K than $105K.

Is $150K doable as a senior FO? Absolutely. $150K and 16 days off per month? I won't say impossible because CCB claims he's doing it, but I sure don't see how.

 

[Lake Alice]

As a senior JFK F/O I did 4 day turns in a row worth 29:10. 3 of those and I was done for the month. 12 days of work. I hate working so I didn't pick anything else up but I could have. I you wanted to work and extra 2 or 3 days and were able to pick up a deadhead or international turn and that amount seems plausible. Work to live, not the other way around.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

If u r a captain at NJA, stay. If an FO, go to JB. The Oracle has spoken.

This 8.5 year JB Capt agrees.

140K f/o working 16 days and off half the weekends?
NFW.

With our new work rules, for days off, just divide your monthly hours by 5. That's all you'll get per day.
Ooops, I meant per "duty period".
24+ layovers are freebies! (For the company, that is, not the pilots,)

 

[oldxfr8dog]

As a senior JFK F/O I did 4 day turns in a row worth 29:10. 3 of those and I was done for the month. 12 days of work. I hate working so I didn't pick anything else up but I could have. I you wanted to work and extra 2 or 3 days and were able to pick up a deadhead or international turn and that amount seems plausible. Work to live, not the other way around.

I guess you live close to jfk?
Otherwise your "12 days of work" is more like 18 days away unless you live in that cesspool.
If you do live there, please let these guys know about the gridlock and tolls.
Just be honest, just because we screwed up coming here, don't lead these other poor guys on.
Unless you're one of the "Better than Mesa guys...", I guess.

 

[clickclickboom]

In all fairness let me adjust the potential yr 6 pay from 140-150k to 130-140k..

There are many that live in or near base pick up the rsa's and work the flica and make 150k heck we have a few fo's here that made almost 200k this year.. granted they have no life

Just to give you a breakdown of last week.

I did 4 day turns. My bid award was 29:56 yes you heard me

kin the first, followed by an sti, pop, and then a provo turn. The first and second day we went over by about 20 mins each day putting me at 31 hours went illegal for last day and was released. 3 days gone 31 hrs pay

A year 5 FO here that credits 90-95 hrs per month, picks up not one rsa, maybe has one or two 100 hr months, takes 1 vacation and uses pto for quality of life and not a sellback bonus will easily make 125-130k

I 2 leg commute, bid commutability, bid for 50% of weekends off and only flew 4 redeyes last year,

I usually do 4 on 3 off so that I end up with a nice 7 day off block

 

[Lake Alice]

I guess you live close to jfk?
Otherwise your "12 days of work" is more like 18 days away unless you live in that cesspool.
If you do live there, please let these guys know about the gridlock and tolls.
Just be honest, just because we screwed up coming here, don't lead these other poor guys on.
Unless you're one of the "Better than Mesa guys...", I guess.

I commuted. Occasionally I had to come in the night before but not that often. Worst case scenario 15 days of work. I was never at Mesa.
As for your "screwed up coming here comment" go back to where you came from. No one is leading anyone on on this board or anywhere else. As an OC member I will tell anyone this job is not that bad. We have a good working environment where no one is out to get you. Come to work, do your job, go home. This very statement is exactly why organizing JFK pilots is tough. But we do have a lot of work to do with respect to benefits and retirement. Those are facts without all the emotion people seem to throw in.

 

[Splert]

Some FOs do make $150 plus.

But, don't count on it. A new hire is no where near the seniority to be able to pull that off UNLESS they live in JFK.

Even if you can you will not be able to keep it up for 10 years.

The company is on a war against soft time.

 

[Lake Alice]

Some FOs do make $150 plus.

But, don't count on it. A new hire is no where near the seniority to be able to pull that off UNLESS they live in JFK.

Even if you can you will not be able to keep it up for 10 years.

The company is on a war against soft time.

Very true.

Be senior, whore, or both.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

I guess you live close to jfk?
Otherwise your "12 days of work" is more like 18 days away unless you live in that cesspool.
If you do live there, please let these guys know about the gridlock and tolls.
Just be honest, just because we screwed up coming here, don't lead these other poor guys on.
Unless you're one of the "Better than Mesa guys...", I guess.

move ........

 

[9rj9]

deleted, move along

 

[DC8CRIVER]

i would go back to school and become an orthodontist!!! More time off and way more money, and have you seen the chicks that work at these offices? Way hotter than most fas!!!!!!!!!!!

+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!