An Honest Question for AirTran Pilots

[Kharma Police]

I bet they are happy with their decision every day

I don't see them complaining much. I do however see posts by Southwest pilots who try and re-visit the issue. Sounds like you guys can't get over the F9 slight.

 

[GuppyWN]

I don't see them complaining much. I do however see posts by Southwest pilots who try and re-visit the issue. Sounds like you guys can't get over the F9 slight.

I do cause I'm ex F9. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion and those guys know it just as well as you and I know it.

I hope they all have long and prosperous careers. I'd rather have seen them over here.

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

I do cause I'm ex F9. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion and those guys know it just as well as you and I know it.

I hope they all have long and prosperous careers. I'd rather have seen them over here.

Gup

It's very telling, given the bankruptcy situation that F9 was in, they were so taken aback by your level of arrogance that they walked away from the table and made a deal with a commuter.

Trust, but verify my AirTran brothers and sisters........

 

[F9 Driver]

I bet they are happy with their decision every day

I'd still like to know what the options were that you think FAPA made a "decision" about? (that was a rhetorical question BTW)

http://www.bnet.com/blog/airline-bu...-southwest-8217s-efforts-to-buy-frontier/1042

 

[texman]

I'd still like to know what the options were that you think FAPA made a "decision" about? (that was a rhetorical question BTW)

http://www.bnet.com/blog/airline-bu...-southwest-8217s-efforts-to-buy-frontier/1042

Ok, that article is such bull. I heard GK 8 feet away from me state the labor was a non issue. It was the fact that he would have to furlough and F9's books were a mess. I think it was a mgt tactic to show good face with the pilots as a new leader. But from what I understand he got what he needed out of the deal.

 

[texman]

The term, "fairness" is a very subjective term on both sides. You stated a perfect example why this needs to go to arbitration. You and probably others feel that because we have young captains, they are somehow less deserving to be in the seat which they have been occupied for many years prior to September 27th. My fellow young pup Captains that just now started shaving more than once a week disagree.

Who is more or less deserving of there current seat position? On both sides. Would you be upset if you lost your seat? If so what would entitle you to hold your seat if M/B and AM didn't ever come into play. Just a question?

 

[Kharma Police]

Who is more or less deserving of there current seat position? On both sides. Would you be upset if you lost your seat? If so what would entitle you to hold your seat if M/B and AM didn't ever come into play. Just a question?

I don't feel "entitled" to anything so I wouldn't mind. However, the person already in his captain seat is logically more deserving, not the FO who would be taking his place. That in terms of career progression (not pay) is a windfall.

 

[GuppyWN]

I don't feel "entitled" to anything so I wouldn't mind. However, the person already in his captain seat is logically more deserving, not the FO who would be taking his place. That in terms of career progression (not pay) is a windfall.

So a Virgin America Captain gets to keep his seat AND gets a huge raise in a Delta purchase of VA?

Even though Delta has some 10+ year FO's.

That's friggin' awesome.

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

So a Virgin America Captain gets to keep his seat AND gets a huge raise in a Delta purchase of VA?

Even though Delta has some 10+ year FO's.

That's friggin' awesome.

Gup

That's how it works. I'm sure because of Delta's heavy aircraft and international flying (that AT/SWA don't have or do) there would be fences.

Career progression comparison:

SWA pilot - 737 Captain
AirTran Pilot - 737 Captain

Delta pilot - 747 Captain
VA pilot - A320 Captain

Notice the difference?

 

[S3sundowner]

KP, don't forget you have 85ish rjs and 50ish 73s. Swa has 550 73s. Notice the difference?

 

[Kharma Police]

KP, don't forget you have 85ish rjs and 50ish 73s. Swa has 550 73s. Notice the difference?

Not sure what the relevance is but I'll take a stab. You think because you have more airplanes then therefore you are entitled to something different in the SLI?

Maybe you want to tie it back to GuppyWN's qusetion?

Delta has around 700 planes, VA has around 30.

 

[S3sundowner]

Listen KP, like I said earlier, you guys are in a win-win situation. I think you will take a hit on the sli, just my .02, but you will have fences to protect you. So, if you are an aai captain now, you will be for the next 4 years or so. During that time, you will be, if you so chose, on the swa contract making serious bank. $40k/month for a swa captain is not uncommon. You may lose out a little in the sli because of what you are gaining, but by the time the fences come down, you will be so far ahead of where you are now, and, if what you aai guys say comes true (ie aai represents significant growth opporunities to swa), then you will have 2-2.5k in new hires below you. You shouldn't look this gift horse in the mouth for too long, but don't expect significant victories in this sli; I seriously doubt you guys will do any better than a 6 or 7 to 1 ratiod integration. And that, my friend, is a great deal for you and you should know it.

 

[Kharma Police]

Listen KP, like I said earlier, you guys are in a win-win situation. I think you will take a hit on the sli, just my .02, but you will have fences to protect you. So, if you are an aai captain now, you will be for the next 4 years or so. During that time, you will be, if you so chose, on the swa contract making serious bank. $40k/month for a swa captain is not uncommon. You may lose out a little in the sli because of what you are gaining, but by the time the fences come down, you will be so far ahead of where you are now, and, if what you aai guys say comes true (ie aai represents significant growth opporunities to swa), then you will have 2-2.5k in new hires below you. You shouldn't look this gift horse in the mouth for too long, but don't expect significant victories in this sli; I seriously doubt you guys will do any better than a 6 or 7 to 1 ratiod integration. And that, my friend, is a great deal for you and you should know it.

Again, the arbitrator will make the decision, weather it goes down like you say is to be determined. However, if I were you I would try and refrain from telling my fellow pilots and myself how great you think your version of events will be. I can smell the BS through my computer screen.

 

[texman]

I don't feel "entitled" to anything so I wouldn't mind. However, the person already in his captain seat is logically more deserving, not the FO who would be taking his place. That in terms of career progression (not pay) is a windfall.

Great neutral post ( not being a smart a>>), but what good would it be for the AT pilots to take this to arbitration. Career progression and career expectations are the some what the same. The captain position is all about the money. I think thats why you see some guy's do the pay comparison thing here on FI. You look at a captain pay at AT verse Mid to SR FO pay at SWA. So with the seat thing in play why does a AT captain deserve to hold his seat and make more money when he would if he was a FO at SWA. Plus when a company furloughs a pilot group what career expectations does the whole list have in the long run with a company that under values it's employees. Look at the 70+ firm orders we have. Look at the 51+ orders you have. What do we know about the future of AT growth. Do you think AT could have been long term competitive against SWA. Maybe, maybe not? So would career progression/expectations only be predicated on growth or money and seat held on the 27th 2010? Correct me if I am wrong, were all 51 airplanes going to be exercise in 2011?

 

[maxblast72]

KP, don't forget you have 85ish rjs and 50ish 73s. Swa has 550 73s. Notice the difference?

Sundowner, don't forget Airtran has 32 gates in ATL, about 10-15 slots in DCA, about 15-20 roundtrips a day outside the Lower 48, and about 20-25 slots in LGA. SWA has 0 gates in ATL, 0 slots in DCA, 0 roundtrips a day outside the lower 48, and 10 slots in LGA. Notice the difference? Gary Kelly did and he broke out the checkbook (and offered a 70% premium to the AAI shareholders).