But Dave will leave if we vote in a union....

[Hair-on-Fire]

There are lots of great socially responsbile corporate elites out there... I am sure there is a SWA VP that would make a great JB CEO....

Don't like workplace democracy Barger? CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCYA!

and you'd complain about whoever replaced him............

 

[B6Busdriver]

I agree. Barger is a good CEO. By the way, all you pro alpa JB guys. Out of the last 20 Captains I have flown with, only 1 was for ALPA. Not a good ratio for yall. Hows your card drive going?

Riiiiiiiiiight!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

and you'd complain about whoever replaced him............

Why would I complain about a SWA VP? SWA gets it.

More pilot leave JB and go to SWA than SWA to JB.... in fact who would leave SWA? and why?

 

[mejorgy]

Flame bait much?uke:

BTW....the last 15 "give or take" captains I have flown with have all turned in their cards and are anxiously awaiting the vote! Bidding with the bobs can be harmful to your health....not to mention the welfare of your career, family, seniority, color of shirt we wear, hats or no hats....oh dang...the list goes on and on!

 

[pilotyip]

Yea shame on Dave creating all those jobs, why what was he thinking of? Oh! thats right only thinking of himself and for that he must be punished. You will only know in about 5-10 years if getting rid of Dave is the right or wrong thing to do at this time. The union did such wonders for the Comair pilots with their precedent setting regional contract. What is the future at Comair rigth now, not much. Where does this come from, all the Comair pilots I have interviewed over the last few months, who now look at USA Jet DA-20 seat as a better career move than Comair.

 

[BeachBummer]

Yea shame on Dave creating all those jobs, why what was he thinking of? Oh! thats right only thinking of himself and for that he must be punished. You will only know in about 5-10 years if getting rid of Dave is the right or wrong thing to do at this time. The union did such wonders for the Comair pilots with their precedent setting regional contract. What is the future at Comair rigth now, not much. Where does this come from, all the Comair pilots I have interviewed over the last few months, who now look at USA Jet DA-20 seat as a better career move than Comair.

Last time I checked, jetblue wasn't owned or controlled by any one but jetblue... jet blue is not a regional carrier. Nor do we have to worry if some other company will keep our contract, renew it, buy us more planes or give them to some other carrier in the REGIONAL whipsaw. If your going to compare, please compare apples to apples.

Until MANAGMENT failed at united, delta, NWA, ect... the unions did a very good job at increasing the quality of life and pay. A bankrupt company is never the fault of the union when talking airlines.

If our planes start giong to other carriers and are being flown under the jetblue flag, we have no one to blame but ourselves for believing that the great jetblue would never do us wrong.

 

[BeachBummer]

BTW....the last 15 "give or take" captains I have flown with have all turned in their cards and are anxiously awaiting the vote! Bidding with the bobs can be harmful to your health....not to mention the welfare of your career, family, seniority, color of shirt we wear, hats or no hats....oh dang...the list goes on and on!

My point was that "cowboy55" has been on FI for 4 months and to date has made all 8 posts in a anti-alpa mantra... Stinks of FLAME from the Jenny monster (aka union busting corperate spin doctor), or something like it. I wouldn't pay much mind to cowboy55.

 

[pilotyip]

Until MANAGMENT failed at united, delta, NWA, ect... the unions did a very good job at increasing the quality of life and pay. A bankrupt company is never the fault of the union when talking airlines..

This is repeat but if fits here. This is a pilot board so saying anything in defense of management is like peeing into the wind, that it is going to come back to you. CEO's are not intentionally running airlines into the ground. They would very much like to succeed. For lack of other reason it would make their resume look great, they would be doing something no other CEO had ever done. Top management includes many besides the CEO, the CEO sets direction as requested by the board. The CEO has little control over the airline, the airline is run by regulation and union contracts. They are at the mercy of the purchasing public, who with Internet access has made the airline ticket a perfectly elastic commodity. There is little they can do inside their structure. Other high paid top management personnel, in Operations, Maintenance. Marketing, Legal, Finance, etc. have unique skills in dealing with large organizations. This makes them marketable when shopping for a job, unlike pilots whose skills are nearly universal. Now I will agree that CEO leadership in many cases leaves much to be desired. An issue of ATW in 2002 had an article about “Airline Management a dying breed”, the article basically said no one wants to do it. The good track record CEO’s are going to other industries. With tremendous, payrolls, overhead burdens, and extremely low margins, there is no tried and true path to success. Most have tried to increase market share, but this has lead to low price and ridiculous breakeven load factors in 95% range. What is management supposed to do? Eliminating management will bring the end quicker for the airplane industry, and their salaries are insignificant to the airlines operating costs. Without management you could not operate the airline, The FAA would shut it down without approved Part 119 key management. Would the pilots step up and become management for free in their spare time? Why is every time, pilot salaries come up, they are immediately compared to top management. I saw an article in ATW in 2001 that stated at DAL there were 17 members of top management made more than the top DAL Captain. The combined top 17 salaries equaled less than 1/6 of 1% of the combined pilot salaries. If management worked for free all pilots in the company would get a 1/10 of 1% raise. (for a $100K per year pilot that would be $3/wk increase in take home) Boy that raise would really make the pilot group happy. Top management possesses skills that allow them to move from job to job and command high salaries. And every one of these managers wants to see his/her airline prosper. They just can not do it.

 

[BeachBummer]

Your babbling... and still made my point. We aren't talking manager salaries. You were comparing the need for a union at jet blue to the demise of comair.

 

[BeachBummer]

Fly because you like to, if you are in it for the respect, prestige, recognition or money you may be disappointed.

I fly because I like it. I also expect the respect and recognition and pay that come with being a professional at my craft. If you wanna fly because you like it and that's all... go buy a 172.