Integrating AAI into SWA

[Max Powers]

Gawd- the almighty upgrade/ :-(

Regional thinking.

USAIR thinking.

Pay is based on longevity-

Bingo we have a winner!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Tell that to all the junior SWA FOs who are about to get shafted by the merger if AirTran gets relative seniority. Their pay is much more affected due to seniority vs longevity.

That's why I think the end result will be a straight up staple of AT to SWA or SWA will walk away.

 

[Cometman]

Tell that to all the junior SWA FOs who are about to get shafted by the merger if AirTran gets relative seniority. Their pay is much more affected due to seniority vs longevity.

That's why I think the end result will be a straight up staple of AT to SWA or SWA will walk away.

They could get relative seniority. They also can get Zero longevity. That would mean the top Captain at Airtran would be up in the top list of SWA if they got relative seniority as far as bidding goes. However, if they got zero longevity they could get paid as a 1 year Captain. It might not be worth that much but still it would be something. However, all First Officers could get relative seniority and also get 1 year pay and benefits. Interesting?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Hey cometman. So are you Bob dylan, Cometman and maybe SWA/fo? Are you arguing with yourself now because nobody will take your bait? You really need a life.

 

[SWA/FO]

SWAFO, I'm not sure whether you're flaming, or just too lazy to look up real financials, but 2009 and 2010 are two of the most profitable years in our history, so you sound pretty stupid when you claim that we were in financial difficulty.

Actually, AirTran was profitable for 9 out of the last ten years.

Making 30 million a year, it would be tough paying you guys more and pay off your debt. The SWA/FO is making a good point. Swimming in debt was Tranny.

 

[JetDude]

I think he is correct. Seniority will get you the position but not the pay. You can get a Captain position if no body senior to you bid the position. However, the pay will be based on the years in the classification or job describtion (Pilot or whatever it is called). Your seniority got you the position your longevity gets you the pay.

At SWA I believe you keep your longevity when you change seats. Therefore, an upgrade bumps you approximately 35% in pay.

 

[SWA/FO]

From your 2009 Annual Report and I quote:

The amount of our debt and other fixed obligations, and potential increases in the amount of our debt and other
fixed obligations, an inability to refinance our debt and fixed obligations, and any acceleration of our debt or
other obligations could have important consequences to investors and could:​

��​

require a substantial portion of cash flows from operations for debt service payments, thereby
reducing the availability of our cash flow to fund working capital, capital expenditures,
acquisitions, and other general corporate purposes;​

��​

limit our ability to obtain additional financing for aircraft purchases, capital expenditures,
working capital or general corporate purposes; and​

��​

limit our flexibility in planning for, or reacting to, changes in our business and the industry in
which we operate and, consequently, place us at a competitive disadvantage to our competitors
with less debt.
As a result of the substantial fixed costs associated with our obligations we may not have sufficient liquidity to
fund all of our fixed costs if revenues decline or costs increase; and we may not have sufficient liquidity to
respond to competitive developments and adverse economic conditions.​

Covenants in our existing debt instruments and potential future indebtedness could limit how we conduct our
business, which could affect our long-term growth potential. A failure by us to comply with any of our
existing or prospective restrictions could result in acceleration of the repayment terms of our existing or
potential future debt. Were this to occur, we might not have, or be able to obtain, sufficient cash to pay our
accelerated indebtedness.​

Certain of our existing debt instruments and financing agreements contain covenants that, among other things,
limit our ability to:​

��​

pay dividends and/or other distributions;​

��​

incur additional indebtedness;​

��​

prepay certain indebtedness;​

��​

dispose of certain assets without application of the proceeds in one or more specified ways; and​

��​

enter into mergers, consolidations or other business combinations.
As a result of these restrictive covenants, we may be limited in how we conduct business, and we may be unable
to raise additional debt or equity financing to operate during general economic or business downturns, to
compete effectively, or to take advantage of new business opportunities. This may affect our ability to generate
revenues and make profits.
Our failure to comply with the covenants and restrictions contained in our Credit Facility, our indentures,
leases, other financing agreements, and our aircraft purchase agreements could lead to a default under the terms
of those agreements. If such a default occurs, the other parties to these agreements could declare all amounts
borrowed and all amounts due under other instruments, which contain provisions for cross-acceleration or
cross-default, due and payable. If that occurs, we may not be able to make payments on our debt, meet our
working capital and capital expenditure requirements, or be able to find additional alternative financing on​

acceptable terms or sustain our operations.

 

[UALX727]

Isn't the above just the legal stuff an airline has to include on the Annual Report to not get sued by the shareholders just in case?? I am curious if this same statement would be found on other airlines annual reports??

Similiarly, this seems like a blanket liability statement one sees at the beginning of every wall street presentation a company does. Not sure if they are specific to the airline or just boiler-plate stuff.

 

[waveflyer]

If you're diving into annual reports to make a seniority argument- you're on a seriously ********************ed up line of thinking- I know very few pilots who ought to be interpreting those things- much less making any correlations... Stay calm, stay tuned- we only control so much

 

[RedDogC130]

If you're diving into annual reports to make a seniority argument- you're on a seriously ********************ed up line of thinking- I know very few pilots who ought to be interpreting those things- much less making any correlations... Stay calm, stay tuned- we only control so much

Your right pilots should not...our m&a lawyers will. Good point.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you're diving into annual reports to make a seniority argument- you're on a seriously ********************ed up line of thinking- I know very few pilots who ought to be interpreting those things- much less making any correlations... Stay calm, stay tuned- we only control so much

NO, my point was Tranny didn't have any money to pay the PILOTS. I don't think they had money to grow the b1tch either. I think, with their debt they were painted into a corner.

 

[Kharma Police]

NO, my point was Tranny didn't have any money to pay the PILOTS. I don't think they had money to grow the b1tch either. I think, with their debt they were painted into a corner.

There you go with hypotheticals again. Remember, just like your upgrade, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

 

[johnsonrod]

Your right pilots should not...our m&a lawyers will. Good point.

The only lawyers that will be involved with the SLI will be Swapa and ALPA lawyers. Both companies are profitable lcc's, and arbitrators will know this. I bet you know that too. AT pilots have the most to gain here, and they will get a lot of what they want. They might not be at the top of the list, but they will be in the middle, and I can see why that makes some SWA pilots nervous.

 

[johnsonrod]

NO, my point was Tranny didn't have any money to pay the PILOTS. I don't think they had money to grow the b1tch either. I think, with their debt they were painted into a corner.

Doesn't matter. There won't be a B-scale, right? Their new contract just brought them a lot closer to you guys, and I think those NWA pilots were making a lot less than those Delta guys in that merger. I think those NWA pilots were bragging too that they had more cash on hand and "saved Delta" and that should mean something to the arbitrators. It didn't seem to matter, though.

 

[atldc9]

From your 2009 Annual Report and I quote:

The amount of our debt and other fixed obligations, and potential increases in the amount of our debt and other
fixed obligations, an inability to refinance our debt and fixed obligations, and any acceleration of our debt or
other obligations could have important consequences to investors and could:​

��​

require a substantial portion of cash flows from operations for debt service payments, thereby
reducing the availability of our cash flow to fund working capital, capital expenditures,
acquisitions, and other general corporate purposes;​

��​

limit our ability to obtain additional financing for aircraft purchases, capital expenditures,
working capital or general corporate purposes; and​

��​

limit our flexibility in planning for, or reacting to, changes in our business and the industry in
which we operate and, consequently, place us at a competitive disadvantage to our competitors
with less debt.
As a result of the substantial fixed costs associated with our obligations we may not have sufficient liquidity to
fund all of our fixed costs if revenues decline or costs increase; and we may not have sufficient liquidity to
respond to competitive developments and adverse economic conditions.​

Covenants in our existing debt instruments and potential future indebtedness could limit how we conduct our
business, which could affect our long-term growth potential. A failure by us to comply with any of our
existing or prospective restrictions could result in acceleration of the repayment terms of our existing or
potential future debt. Were this to occur, we might not have, or be able to obtain, sufficient cash to pay our
accelerated indebtedness.​

Certain of our existing debt instruments and financing agreements contain covenants that, among other things,
limit our ability to:​

��​

pay dividends and/or other distributions;​

��​

incur additional indebtedness;​

��​

prepay certain indebtedness;​

��​

dispose of certain assets without application of the proceeds in one or more specified ways; and​

��​

enter into mergers, consolidations or other business combinations.
As a result of these restrictive covenants, we may be limited in how we conduct business, and we may be unable
to raise additional debt or equity financing to operate during general economic or business downturns, to
compete effectively, or to take advantage of new business opportunities. This may affect our ability to generate
revenues and make profits.
Our failure to comply with the covenants and restrictions contained in our Credit Facility, our indentures,
leases, other financing agreements, and our aircraft purchase agreements could lead to a default under the terms
of those agreements. If such a default occurs, the other parties to these agreements could declare all amounts
borrowed and all amounts due under other instruments, which contain provisions for cross-acceleration or
cross-default, due and payable. If that occurs, we may not be able to make payments on our debt, meet our
working capital and capital expenditure requirements, or be able to find additional alternative financing on​

acceptable terms or sustain our operations.

And since you are quoting the Risk Factors section of a quarterly report, hear are the ones form LUV...which are equally as irrelevant...
The Company’s business has continued to be heavily impacted by fuel prices, which can be extremely volatile; therefore, the Company’s strategic plans and future profitability are likely to be impacted by the Company’s ability to effectively address fuel prices.
The airline industry is particularly sensitive to changes in economic conditions; further unfavorable economic conditions would likely negatively affect the Company’s results of operations.
The Company’s low cost structure is one of its primary competitive advantages, and many factors could affect the Company’s ability to control its costs.
The Company’s results of operations could be adversely impacted if it is unable to timely and effectively implement its revenue initiatives.
The Company is increasingly dependent on technology to operate its business and continues to implement substantial changes to its information systems; any failure or disruption in the Company’s information systems could materially adversely affect the Company’s operations.
Unstable credit, capital, and energy markets could result in future pressure on the Company’s credit ratings and could also negatively impact the Company’s ability to obtain financing on acceptable terms and the Company’s liquidity generally.
The Company is dependent on single aircraft and engine suppliers; therefore, the Company would be materially adversely affected if it were unable to obtain additional equipment or support from either of these suppliers or in the event of a mechanical or regulatory issue associated with their equipment.
The Company’s business is labor intensive; therefore, the Company would be adversely affected if it were unable to maintain satisfactory relations with its Employees or its Employees’ Representatives.
The airline industry has faced on-going security concerns and related cost burdens; further threatened or actual terrorist attacks, or other hostilities, could significantly harm the airline industry and the Company’s operations.

Airport capacity constraints and air traffic control inefficiencies could limit the Company’s growth; changes in or additional governmental regulation could increase the Company’s operating costs or otherwise limit the Company’s ability to conduct business.
The airline industry is affected by many conditions that are beyond its control, which can impact the Company’s business strategies.

 

[Ty Webb]

SWAFO, that's boilerplate language known as "clear harbor" statements. As someone else pointed out, SWA has it too. You need to look at AAI's operating profit, that's how much we made. The net profit is after a bunch of decisions made to reduce taxes debt, etc. If we made a $160 m.profit they spend it down to reduce taxes... pretty basic stuff. Make extra, pay down debt, pay bonuses buy some new tugs and flat_screen monitors, cry poor to pilots and Uncle Sam. Not exactly rocket science.


that's

 

[Cometman]

Hey cometman. So are you Bob dylan, Cometman and maybe SWA/fo? Are you arguing with yourself now because nobody will take your bait? You really need a life.

No. Why are you getting so upset. Does the question bother you? You must think it is a possiblity or you would not react like this. Relax. If you cannot answer the question wait for somebody else to answer it. It is just a question.

 

[Lear70]

Moderator hat on:

Watch the language, ladies and gents...

/mod

On a side note, the arbitrator doesn't have the authority to dictate pay rate or longevity.

Those lie solely within the confines of the RLA via the CBA, not to mention that it would be illegal to combine the operations and pay one set of pilots on the same equipment completely differently than the other - otherwise known as "discriminatory practice".

Besides, setting up such a culture would be counter to every principle Southwest operates on. Just don't see it happening... YMMV

 

[75M]

Ok, back to the original post, I think we're used to going above and beyond the call of duty, being productive and having fun (even in the midst of a not-so-fun situation).

Something tells me we'll fit in just fine.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

No. Why are you getting so upset. Does the question bother you? You must think it is a possiblity or you would not react like this. Relax. If you cannot answer the question wait for somebody else to answer it. It is just a question.

I could care less. I am out of these debates. They are useless. I was just pointing out how sad it is that you feel the need to bring multiple accounts to this website to rile people up. Your hypothetical questions which are trying to polarize the pilot groups are a waste of time. You have no unique or insightful responses and are only here to rile up the groups.