Express Jet Pilot says "NO" to scanner

[A1FlyBoy]

MEMPHIS, Tenn. (CBS/AP) — A Tennessee pilot who says he’s tired of being manhandled by security agents is waiting to see if he will lose his job because he refused a full body scan.
ExpressJet Airlines first officer Michael Roberts was chosen for the X-ray scan Friday at Memphis International Airport. The Houston-based pilot says he also refused a pat-down and went home.
The 35-year-old Roberts told The Commercial Appeal newspaper he wants to go to work and not be “harassed or molested without cause.”
Transportation Security Administration spokesman Jon Allen says a person was turned away after refusing to follow federal security procedures but declined to say if it was Roberts, citing privacy considerations.
Roberts says he has safety concerns, but called TSA a “make-work” program that doesn’t make travel safer.
“I just kind of had to ask myself ‘Where do I stand?’ I’m just not comfortable being physically manhandled by a federal security agent every time I go to work,” he told the Commercial Appeal.
Earlier this week, CBSNewYork reported that full-body scanners have not yet been installed at New York City area airports, despite plans that were in place to have them installed at Newark Liberty International, John F. Kennedy International, and LaGuardia airports by September.
The Transportation Security Administration told The Star-Ledger of Newark the installation is complex and the scanners would arrive “in the coming weeks.”
Passengers who prefer not to be scanned can choose to be patted down and pass through a metal detector.
LISTEN: WCBS 880′s Levon Putney with Rep. Bill Pascrell
TSA spokesman Ann Davis says passengers are no less safe. She says the scanners are designed to be faster and less physically intrusive than metal detectors and pat-downs.
The TSA has installed 259 scanners at 59 airports nationwide.

 

[Spud]

Enough is enough.

I submit that all aircrew should go through the secondary screening to gum up the works, and show the pax how retarded this has become. If enough of us do it maybe the airlines will weigh in to keep their crews from showing late.

Public opinion has turned and most people now resent the over-intrusive nature of the TSA. Now is the time to stand up and put an end to it. I'm emailing my senator right now.

 

[Kharma Police]

Enough is enough.

I submit that all aircrew should go through the secondary screening to gum up the works, and show the pax how retarded this has become. If enough of us do it maybe the airlines will weigh in to keep their crews from showing late.

Public opinion has turned and most people now resent the over-intrusive nature of the TSA. Now is the time to stand up and put an end to it. I'm emailing my senator right now.

What will public opinion be after the next "Fruit-of-the-Boom" bomber literally blows his a$$ off and downs an airliner? That dude over Christmas proved that his method worked at bypassing security, all they have to do is improve the execution.

You want to be a sheep, go ahead and be a sheep. Just don't blame the sheep dog for protecting you and don't come crying when the wolf comes on your plane.

 

[Wasted]

What will public opinion be after the next "Fruit-of-the-Boom" literally blows his a$$ off and downs an airliner? That dude over Christmas proved that his method worked at bypassing security, all they have to do is improve the execution.

You want to be a sheep, go ahead and be a sheep. Just don't blame the sheep dog for protecting you and don't come crying when the wolf comes on your plane.

The role of the sheep dog is to protect the sheep. If the sheep dog violates the sheep in the name of protecting them from the wolves, then what is the difference between the sheep dog and the wolf? The job of the sheep dog is tough. It is a fine line that they have to walk. But that is the burden of choosing to be a sheep dog. That is what the sheep dog is paid to do. That is what makes the job of sheep dog rewarding. The sheep dog is no better than the wolf if the sheep dog takes the easy way out.

 

[Newpilot2b]

I don't get it. The TSA knows that I can pass through there security ALL DAY LONG at any airport and still take over the plane right? Its called I am a Pilot in front of a locked door? If I remember corectly on 9-11 the bad guys had box cutters, killed a few FA's and got into the unlocked Flight Deck and killed the Pilots and then became Pilots themselves? Tell me where my 1st grade logic is wrong here. The only thing I would need to do in this case would be to takeout the FO right?

 

[Kharma Police]

The role of the sheep dog is to protect the sheep. If the sheep dog violates the sheep in the name of protecting them from the wolves, then what is the difference between the sheep dog and the wolf? The job of the sheep dog is tough. It is a fine line that they have to walk. But that is the burden of choosing to be a sheep dog. That is what the sheep dog is paid to do. The sheep dog is no better than the wolf if the sheep dog takes the easy way out.

Big difference, the sheepdog's mission is to protect the sheep not kiss the sheep's a$$. If a few sheep feel that their hoofs are being stepped on then so be it. Better to be a pissed off sheep then a dead sheep. The sheep may hate the sheep dogs intrusiveness but when the wolf comes, they run behind the sheepdog. At the end of the day the sheep rest easy knowing that the sheepdog is watching over and protecting them.

The wolf has one goal, kill the sheep using whatever means possible. The wolf was born to kill, trains to kill, wakes up in the morning thinking of killing and then kills without mercy. The only thing stopping him is the sheep dog.

So, my fellow sheep, let the f-ing sheepdogs do their job.

 

[front9]

Wait, so now you're saying that TSA agents are as smart as Sheep Dogs?

 

[Kharma Police]

Wait, so now you're saying that TSA agents are as smart as Sheep Dogs?

No, I'm saying we are a nation of dumb sheep that can't remember the names of wolfs like, Ramzi Yousef Mohamed Atta, Richard Reid, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab and Faisal Shahzad.

 

[Wasted]

I don't get it. The TSA knows that I can pass through there security ALL DAY LONG at any airport and still take over the plane right? Its called I am a Pilot in front of a locked door? If I remember corectly on 9-11 the bad guys had box cutters, killed a few FA's and got into the unlocked Flight Deck and killed the Pilots and then became Pilots themselves? Tell me where my 1st grade logic is wrong here. The only thing I would need to do in this case would be to takeout the FO right?

If you are the assigned pilot and you want to crash the plane, there is nothing, nowhere, ever, that can stop you. No body scanner, no metal detector, no ID check, no Crewpass, nothing, except maybe a Vulcan mind meld.

The Theater of Security is in place merely to keep out anybody that does not belong within the security area. It has nothing to do with intentions since we do not have any probes, anal or aural, that are capable of reading minds with today's technologies. In order to gain entrance into the security area, you first show reason to be in that area, and you either prove you are bringing nothing of harm into that area or you prove that you are employed within that area.

First, a person demonstrate a reason to be in the secure area by having a boarding pass. Next, a passenger will then be screened to prove to TSA that they are not carrying anything of harm. Easy enough.

For the crewmembers, you demonstrate a reason to go through security with your badge. That crew badge is your boarding pass. Now, you can either be screened or you can prove employment. Since the TSA does not have any means of verifying your employment, you will then be placed under the same criteria as a passenger and screened in order to gain access. Now, if you have a SIDA badge, then the employment is proven since the SIDA badge was issued by the airport authority to employees. Therefore, you can just swipe thorugh your own door with the SIDA badge and secret pin code and enter without being screened. Or if you don't have a SIDA, but the airport authority allows it, you can prove your employment to a ticket agent, who verifies your ID against her own information, and then allow you access through operations without being screened. If the airport has Crewpass, then the TSA can verify for themselves against their own list, that the badge and the smiling face, do represent a person that is rightfully employed here, thus allowing you access without screening.

 

[dillfer]

No, I'm saying we are a nation of dumb sheep that can't remember the names of wolfs like, Ramzi Yousef Mohamed Atta, Richard Reid, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab and Faisal Shahzad.

Hey man, don't involve all of us in your sick little twisted sharade.

 

[Wasted]

Big difference, the sheepdog's mission is to protect the sheep not kiss the sheep's a$$. If a few sheep feel that their hoofs are being stepped on then so be it. Better to be a pissed off sheep then a dead sheep. The sheep may hate the sheep dogs intrusiveness but when the wolf comes, they run behind the sheepdog. At the end of the day the sheep rest easy knowing that the sheepdog is watching over and protecting them.

The wolf has one goal, kill the sheep using whatever means possible. The wolf was born to kill, trains to kill, wakes up in the morning thinking of killing and then kills without mercy. The only thing stopping him is the sheep dog.

So, my fellow sheep, let the f-ing sheepdogs do their job.

The wolf and the sheepdog are the same. They'll kill with whatever means possible. They're both born to kill, train to kill, wake up in the morning thinking of killing and then kill without mercy. The only difference is which side of the fence that dog chose to be on. Those who choose to be outside become wolves. Those who choose the inside become sheepdogs. In order to have the priveledge of living within the sheep's society with a license to kill, the sheepdog swears to abide by and uphold the laws of the sheep's society. To operate outside those standards, no matter how convenient it may be, makes the sheepdog into a wolf.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Theres a 10 pager already in session, on this XJT guy.

 

[Kharma Police]

The wolf and the sheepdog are the same. They'll kill with whatever means possible. They're both born to kill, train to kill, wake up in the morning thinking of killing and then kill without mercy. The only difference is which side of the fence that dog chose to be on. Those who choose to be outside become wolves. Those who choose the inside become sheepdogs. In order to have the priveledge of living within the sheep's society with a license to kill, the sheepdog swears to abide by and uphold the laws of the sheep's society. To operate outside those standards, no matter how convenient it may be, makes the sheepdog into a wolf.

The sheepdog lives to serve and protect. Killing for the sheepdog is not the main objective, his goal is to stop the threat to the sheep. If he can scare the wolf with a bark or give chase to him away from the sheep then his mission has been accomplished. The main objective of the wolf has always been a predatory role.

 

[dicko]

The sheepdog lives to serve and protect. Killing for the sheepdog is not the main objective, his goal is to stop the threat to the sheep. If he can scare the wolf with a bark or give chase to him away from the sheep then his mission has been accomplished. The main objective of the wolf has always been a predatory role.

Kharma,

A pilot could down an aircraft without a weapon of any kind. Searching them is a pointless waste of time.

We are the 'sheepdog'. Not the 'sheep'.

I do however agree with the other poster. What you do with your pets and livestock is best left to the privacy of your home

 

[Wasted]

The sheepdog lives to serve and protect. Killing for the sheepdog is not the main objective, his goal is to stop the threat to the sheep. If he can scare the wolf with a bark or give chase to him away from the sheep then his mission has been accomplished. The main objective of the wolf has always been a predatory role.

Whether a sheepdog or wolf, they're both canines. You can't escape that fact.

 

[B-atch]

I say we teach the SHEEP to kick A$$ and defend themselves from the wolf, and the sheep dog!!...... Everybody that boards the plane gets a BASEBALL BAT!!.....And NO, this idea is not MINE.

 

[Mr Wu]

Jeebus, someone sucked down a barrel of Artesia Coolaid.

 

[Kharma Police]

Whether a sheepdog or wolf, they're both canines. You can't escape that fact.

You can't escape that a cop and a terrorist are both humans too.

 

[Hamburger]

No, I'm saying we are a nation of dumb sheep that can't remember the names of wolfs like, Ramzi Yousef Mohamed Atta, Richard Reid, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab and Faisal Shahzad.

You seem to be confusing PILOTS with sheep.
One name you seem to have forgotten: Gameel el-Batouty.

If you are the assigned pilot and you want to crash the plane, there is nothing, nowhere, ever, that can stop you. No body scanner, no metal detector, no ID check, no Crewpass, nothing, except maybe a Vulcan mind meld.

Exactly. I'm all for them screening passengers, but isn't it about time common sense entered where crew is concerned?

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Michael Roberts on CNN (video):

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/10/20/pilot.refuses.body.scan/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

[Kharma Police]

Kharma,

A pilot could down an aircraft without a weapon of any kind. Searching them is a pointless waste of time.

We are the 'sheepdog'. Not the 'sheep'.

I do however agree with the other poster. What you do with your pets and livestock is best left to the privacy of your home

Very true, Egypt Air comes to mind. There are endless lapses in our security system. I can brain storm additional lapses with flight crews bypassing security as well. Going through a metal detector or letting TSA see an image of my love pump doesn't seem like a large price to pay in order to save lives and protect our livelihood.

Thank goodness penicillin still kills sheep syphilis................

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I Agree with Him & Applaud his GUTS (a rarity in pilots these days)

I Agree with Him & Applaud his GUTS (a rarity in pilots these days)
http://jalopnik.com/5667976/pilot-wh...yline=true&s=i


Pilot Who Refused Full-Body Scan Railed Against TSA For Months

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...340x_tsa_1.jpg"ExpressJet pilot Michael Roberts' refusal of an airport full-body scan has drawn an outpouring of support among pilots. But it's a step Roberts has considered since July, when he railed against the Department of Homeland Security's "tyranny."
ExpressJet pilot Michael Roberts got into a standoff with security at Memphis airport on Friday when he refused to be screened using either the full-body scanners being rolled out at U.S. airports by the Transportation Security Administration or a frisking by TSA agents.
Roberts' stance has touched a nerve among other pilots - people used to being trusted with the safety of ferrying thousands of people. One Southwest Airlines captain urged his colleagues to take action as well:

Everybody else...don't let Michael stand alone on this. This affects all of us. On the one hand, it's ridiculous. What would I even DO with a weapon if I managed to get one on the plane? I already HAVE the plane?...And on the other hand, it's not only a violation of our rights, it's a big potential health risk. Seriously, do you want to go through an X-Ray machine three or four days a week for the next twenty odd years? Yeah, THAT's perfectly safe....
Until last Tuesday, I had never heard of a pilot being asked to go through the full body scanner. Then I was. I refused, and they were grumpy about it, but I just went through the metal detector, and that was it. Next day, Michael has this happen. How many days before the rules change, and we no longer have an option? How many months before they demand something more onerous...and all the abused hookers just go along with it? Where do you draw the line. I say here.
​

But Roberts' decision wasn't a spur of the moment call. Back in July, Roberts was already exercised over the prospect of not just scanning, but patdowns for pilots, telling members of a pilot's forum that "not only will I not hesitate to delay a flight, I may end up walking away from the job and air travel altogether if necessary." He also said "you'd have to have your head buried completely in the sand to believe that the Dept. of Homeland Security really gives two shiits (sic) about preventing terrorism."

I cannot consent to nor accept unwelcome physical contact any more than having images of my naked body being viewed by government personnel as a routine part of my daily commute to work. If I'm not under arrest or a suspect in some known threat to air transportation security, the feds have no grounds to invade my privacy and personal space in this way. It is an outrage beyond any measure of reason, an assault on liberty, a gross overreaching of the state, and a very significant step on the road back to the sort of tyranny many of our forbears and the founders of this society fought and often died to escape and abolish.
​

In August, after the Transportation Security Administration announced expanded security for pilots, Roberts wrote a letter to his bosses, which he attempted to get other pilots to sign as well. He also wrote to the Memphis Commercial Appeal last month, raising the "virtual strip search" term and questioning the qualifications of TSA agents:

Federal airport security guards are often unskilled, entry-level responders to help-wanted ads affixed to pizza boxes. Perhaps novice agents lack the perspective to grasp the full implications of their work. Forgive them, for they know not what they do. But please don't show them your naked body. Don't let these strangers put their hands on you or your children. Their abuse protects no one.
​

So far, there's no update on Roberts' status with ExpressJet.
Send an email to Justin Hyde, the author of this post, at [email protected]. "

 

[nightfr8er]

What will public opinion be after the next "Fruit-of-the-Boom" bomber literally blows his a$$ off and downs an airliner? That dude over Christmas proved that his method worked at bypassing security, all they have to do is improve the execution.

You want to be a sheep, go ahead and be a sheep. Just don't blame the sheep dog for protecting you and don't come crying when the wolf comes on your plane.

The problem with that is that the shoe-bomber and underwear bomber were thwarting security overseas, not in the USA. They need to install these machines, and have the TSA at all airports that have passengers bound for the US. Have all US-bound passengers screend by TSA, with TSA procedures and equipment OVER THERE.

They have US citizens doing Customs and Immigration at airports in Canada. They should use some of that bloated federal budget to roll it out at airports across Europe.

 

[Kharma Police]

You seem to be confusing PILOTS with sheep.
One name you seem to have forgotten: Gameel el-Batouty.

Exactly. I'm all for them screening passengers, but isn't it about time common sense entered where crew is concerned?

A pilot snapping and going psycho is a little different than a group of at least 19 men training for years to take over aircraft and fly them into buildings. Are you absolutely certain that the next attack won't come from a high jacker wearing a crewmember uniform?

 

[Metro752]

What does an x-ray machine do to prevent that Kharma Police?

All a pilot has to do is push forward on the controls. Game over. Hell just stomp the rudder on takeoff.

 

[Kharma Police]

What does an x-ray machine do to prevent that Kharma Police?

All a pilot has to do is push forward on the controls. Game over. Hell just stomp the rudder on takeoff.

I addressed this on a different thread but what stops you from driving your car into a bus stop full of kids or into a super market? Why not rob a bank if you are low on funds? A dude cut you off on the highway?, go follow him home and pop a cap in his a$$! There are pilots that have snapped and nothing will ever prevent this from happening again. In the 121 world I only know of three such instances (Silk Air 185, Egypt Air 990, FedEx 705) that have resulted in the loss of life.

A highjacker that has planned to end his life on a particular day and time with a specific objective that the TSA will hopefully find in time is a different situation. Remember, the TSA has to guess the methods that will be employed by the terrorists, the highjackers of course already know. I mentioned this earlier, are you certain that the next attack won't be carried out with attackers wearing crewmember uniforms?

 

[Dizel8]

Deleted by me, because Kharma makes no sense wrt. the issue of pilot screening!

 

[Hamburger]

A pilot snapping and going psycho is a little different than a group of at least 19 men training for years to take over aircraft and fly them into buildings. Are you absolutely certain that the next attack won't come from a high jacker wearing a crewmember uniform?

I'm absolutely certain that if it does, he won't need anything that could be detected by any type of airport security checkpoint.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

In the end, the real agenda here is to create an environment perceptually free of bias where flight crew are subjected to the same harrassment (secuirty) as travelers. All to send a message that, superficially, everyone gets checked for contraband. No exemptions. So, terrorists, "beware." This seems to me the most evident reasoning behind it.

 

[B52GUNNER]

This is why CREWPASS NOW!! Although it will probably not happen since they are still arguing over pictures on our licenses after 6 years