Feeling sorry for the ComAir guys?

[Ed Harley]

Anyone (Delta pilots especially) on this board feeling a bit sorry for the ComAir guys and girls?

 

[Tail Gunner Joe]

I, for one, do.

They were the pioneers of the small jet to make it work.
Sure AirWis had their 4 engined Avro's for a decade before Comair got into the jet market, but nobody jumped on that bandwagon. Because the Avro was such a risk, the common wisdom was; a little commuter could go bankrupt quick flying empty jets around.

The Canadair RJ line was built because of Comair's interest. When Comair showed the world it could make a RJ sized jet work, the American Eagles and Continental Expresses of the world jumped in (not to mention Embrear and the other RJ makers) with both feet to the tune of a couple of thousand RJ's (total). And far surpassed the pioneering Comair in size, scope, breath and depth of the small jet market.

Pioneers are one that get shot at.

I, for one, raise my glass to pilots of Comair who showed the world it could work.

 

[fugghedabowdit]

As a former Comair employee, yes, I do feel sorry for them. A bunch of great people are losing their careers, and the houses, marriages, etc. that tend to go with them.

There but for the grace of God go I.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I do....it's never a happy day when an airline gets shrunk or closed.

In fact those who will find themselves unemployed soon weren't even on the property when JC and his idiotic idea to put his boot in the eye of furloughed Pilots by using them as his vehicle for scope advancement. It's not their fault that their MEC Chairman tried to use his lifer agenda to completely destroy most mainline Pilot sentiments towards the whole group. It lacked class and some at the top of the Seniority list played along and agreed and nobody asked questions why or raised their hand to point out how wrong this was.

Good luck to all who find themselves in a bad place, best wishes for a soft landing at another carrier.

(See below)

TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

 

[Jetjockey]

I sure hope ALPA MECs from airlines that are hiring step up and get these pilots interviews ASAP! This program works. I've already contacted my reps.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Best of luck, Comair pilots (Lawson and the RJDC losers excluded.)

 

[glasspilot1]

It's so sad to see what's happened to Comair in the last few years. I flew for them from mid 1985 to early '88 when I went to TWA. Many of my contemporaries stayed at Comair for a career because they bought houses, had families and the like. And at the time it looked good at Comair. One of the largest regionals in the country.

When I was there Delta only owned 20% of the company. When I heard Delta bought 100% of Comair years ago I had really bad feelings about it.

 

[PuffDriver]

Anyone (Delta pilots especially) on this board feeling a bit sorry for the ComAir guys and girls?

Nope.

 

[johnsonrod]

Feel very sorry for the junior people who have mouths to feed and mortgages (including flight training) to pay. Some of the senior leadership have proven themselves idiots in the past (merge list with DAL, force furloughed Delta pilots to resign number post 911) and I don't feel as sorry for them. The senior pilot leadership back in the early 2000s did a lot to hurt the rest of the pilot group. Comair became a dirty word among Delta pilots as a result. Sad that many of those same jerk senior people will probably stick around.

Good luck to those impacted.

 

[imacdog]

In fact those who will find themselves unemployed soon weren't even on the property when JC and his idiotic idea to put his boot in the eye of furloughed Pilots by using them as his vehicle for scope advancement. It's not their fault that their MEC Chairman tried to use his lifer agenda to completely destroy most mainline Pilot sentiments towards the whole group. It lacked class and some at the top of the Seniority list played along and agreed and nobody asked questions why or raised their hand to point out how wrong this was.

You are about the only Delta pilot that understands this simple fact. Losers like PuffDriver seem to be representative of the rest of the tards on this website.

 

[Benjamin Dover]

"Not our fault" or whatever, but Comair and ASA grew 30%/year while Delta furloughed 1000+ ... me inlcuded. Sure most line dudes were not part of the lawsuit or decision to not hire furloughed Delta, but not many tears were shed from CMR as they were upgrading and getting PIC to get jobs elsewhere while Delta guys were struggling on the street.

I was on a paid ticket on furlough and got talking with the Comair captain during a ground delay. He was a tool and told me I should be mad at ALPA for not agreeing to mainline Delta pilots doing all the rj flying back in the day. According to this dude, ALPA caved on scope so you reap what you sow etc. "Good luck by the way...."

So, too bad that guy won't be on the street himself. I feel bad for those guys getting furlough, but had mainline Delta pilots NOT gotten furloughed, many Comair would not have been hired. Sorry, but no sympathy from me.

 

[PuffDriver]

You are about the only Delta pilot that understands this simple fact. Losers like PuffDriver seem to be representative of the rest of the tards on this website.

You are appealing to emotions that I don't have. This is the airline game. If you don't know much about it, let me tell you that furloughs are a reality. The 50 seater has been dying for quite some time now. All the RJ drivers thought that the 50 seat RJ was the savior of the industry, and so wildly profitable. I've been saying forever that it was only profitable on long, thin routes, when businessmen had money to burn in order to pay for frequency, or when they were subsidized--that's right--subsidized by bloated fee-for-departure agreements which heavily benefitted contract carriers. These only when gas was below $50--which it ain't.

Those days have ended, as predicted by many--including me. All of those glory days in the RJ world came at the expense of one group, junior mainline pilots--which I was NOT a member of. However, my loyalty lies with them--a few of which were even <gasp> Comair pilots.

My answer was a simple "no", except that you have to have at least 4 characters. We can delve into the RJDC game all you wish, for that is a whole different line of questioning. I can wipe you out in that debate as well. Nobody cried for Delta pilots out on the street, Comair gladly accepted the massive influx of flying, and lived the high life for a decade. It is over. That's what contract flying is. You can set up all the threads you want to cry in your soup, or you can suck it up and move on. I've flown with many furloughed pilots, and heard some of the greatest opportunistic success stories ever in their moment of despair.

It would be nice if you could furlough the senior, but you can't. Succeed despite.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You are about the only Delta pilot that understands this simple fact. Losers like PuffDriver seem to be representative of the rest of the tards on this website.

Thanks but before you hail me a hero.....When a CMR guy comes to me looking for a jumpseat I see his date of hire before the date of that memo and I just give him a briefing and show him the seat......end of the conversation.....the minimum is all he gets. If he's hired after that memo, I'll give him my crew meal and carry his bags.......

Again, Never forget.......(a message to ALL pilots who think they can pi$s on each other and get away with it)

 

[dojetdriver]

The Canadair RJ line was built because of Comair's interest. When Comair showed the world it could make a RJ sized jet work, the American Eagles and Continental Expresses of the world jumped in (not to mention Embrear and the other RJ makers) with both feet to the tune of a couple of thousand RJ's (total). And far surpassed the pioneering Comair in size, scope, breath and depth of the small jet market.

Something to remember, and it doesn't just pertain to COMAIR. The costs of operating the RJ's back then was NOTHING like it is now. Fuel was cheaper, obviously. But so was the labor to operate them. You had pilots flying those things for turboprop wages, and many of the carriers back then weren't even unionized yet.

As pathetic as RJ wages are now, they are better than they were then. Which sadly has done NOTHING but contribute to the whipsaw the regionals have been in since the legacy BK's.

ACA (pre I-Air), COMAIR, AWAC, XJT, etc all worked/working under concessionary agreements. Sad and pathetic.

As far as the thread topic, yep, sucks for the COMAIR guys and gals.

 

[crj567]

Thanks but before you hail me a hero.....When a CMR guy comes to me looking for a jumpseat I see his date of hire before the date of that memo and I just give him a briefing and show him the seat......end of the conversation.....the minimum is all he gets. If he's hired after that memo, I'll give him my crew meal and carry his bags.......

Again, Never forget.......(a message to ALL pilots who think they can pi$s on each other and get away with it)

Which memo is that? The one from the National Academy of Sciences confirming your status as the first completely gay pygmy airline captain?

-Got to be a first of everything, I guess.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Which memo is that? The one from the National Academy of Sciences confirming your status as the first completely gay pygmy airline captain?

-Got to be a first of everything, I guess.

CRJ......don't make me cut the leash on SCOPE.....

He has pretty much beat your Mom into believing she should have considered an abortion....

 

[GuppyWN]

OK. Time to be a jerk.

I feel bad for the Comair PEOPLE. Do I feel bad for Comair?

NOPE.

The bitches at Delta should have kept their flying in-house to begin with and this would have never happened.

Gup

 

[crj567]

CRJ......don't make me cut the leash on my gimp-the last time that happened, I couldn't sit for a week.........

Gary Coleman pretty much beat my Mom into believing she should have considered an abortion....(Oh well-water under the bridge, i guess.)

That ain't much of an achievement. I think I will get up bright and early tomorrow, go and have a nice strawberry smoothie down at the mall..... After that, I will run by and tongue-box your mom's fartbox, and maybe take a break to read a book.

-Smoochie boochies, asswagon!

 

[doh]

I'm gonna show Lumberg some love. Every one who was at Comair or Delta at the time knows which memo he refers to. I saw JC shortly after he put it out. I told him then that he made a huge mistake. He should have told management: "You do the hiring, you set the policy". Instead, he got kingmaker syndrome. Delta guys do not know who was with him or against him. Lumberg is right to play it cool with those on the list at that time. There's no way to know who you are dealing with, so don't hate on 'em, but don't show the love either. It is yet another reason I'm happy to be in fracland and far away from the airline game!

 

[PuffDriver]

OK. Time to be a jerk.

I feel bad for the Comair PEOPLE. Do I feel bad for Comair?

NOPE.

The bitches at Delta should have kept their flying in-house to begin with and this would have never happened.

Gup

Yup. And some might say that while Delta pilots were trying to put the genie back in the bottle, along came a company where pilots had to get their own type rating, severely undercut ALPA wages, worked over their vacations, and hung on the bar--taking leverage away and giving it to Delta management to continue the erosion of scope.

We can play this game forever.