What's the Deal?!!!

[captain]

What is the deal with all of these places that want you to be type rated with time in type, 12 months experience, current 135 check then they put in the ad that they want a dedicated, professional pilot that will bend over backwards for the company! WTF?

I don't get it. I cannot wait until this whole thing turns around!

OK ranting over...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

What is the deal with all of these places that want you to be type rated with time in type, 12 months experience, current 135 check then they put in the ad that they want a dedicated, professional pilot that will bend over backwards for the company! WTF?

I don't get it. I cannot wait until this whole thing turns around!

OK ranting over...

Supply and demand?

Why would a lower-end 135 operation want to spend any money training someone when they dont have to?

They aren't as concerned about getting the right person, just a person. So long as they fill the seat they dont care.

Of course, this isn't anything new.

 

[avbug]

It's called supply and demand. The companies ask for it because they can get it. End of story.

 

[captain]

I understand the whole supply and demand but to ask for all of that and expect them to be dedicated! Gotta laugh at that, isn't there just a bunch of guys jumping ship all the time for the next greener pasture? Seems like if they would like dedication and professionalism they would hire, train, and pay to keep them. Although I realize now, those places are not losing pilots.

Never mind...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I understand the whole supply and demand but to ask for all of that and expect them to be dedicated! Gotta laugh at that, isn't there just a bunch of guys jumping ship all the time for the next greener pasture? Seems like if they would like dedication and professionalism they would hire, train, and pay to keep them. Although I realize now, those places are not losing pilots.

Never mind...

Nah, they will lose qualified people here and there, as always. There is hiring going on - but of course it's the higher qualified, more connected people getting most of the better positions.

Lower end jobs will always be revolving doors, just a little less so in the lean times.

I think the "dedicated, team player" BS is just standard filler in advertised jobs.....and NO good jobs are advertised today on the web....just to satisfy HR. The position is generally long gone before the fools paying $15 a month on some web board see it.

 

[2000Easyguy]

Nah, they will lose qualified people here and there, as always. There is hiring going on - but of course it's the higher qualified, more connected people getting most of the better positions.

Lower end jobs will always be revolving doors, just a little less so in the lean times.

I think the "dedicated, team player" BS is just standard filler in advertised jobs.....and NO good jobs are advertised today on the web....just to satisfy HR. The position is generally long gone before the fools paying $15 a month on some web board see it.

100% in agreement!

 

[avbug]

I understand the whole supply and demand but to ask for all of that and expect them to be dedicated!

An employer has every right to expect an employee to be dedicated. An employee who isn't fully prepared to provide a 100% effort isn't much of an employee, or a professional, at all.

Gotta laugh at that, isn't there just a bunch of guys jumping ship all the time for the next greener pasture?

Sure. There are plenty of good-for-nothing, sniveling, worthless, dishonorable, lying, cheating, foolhardy pilots out there who will jump ship at a moment's notice. Never mind that the employer is putting the bread on their table. An employee who takes a job should have the respect an honor to do the job as agreed, rather than leaving the employer high and dry at the first chance of a shekel or two more.

It's because of pilots like this, pilots who take and run, that the industry does see less pilots getting trained, and that contracts, with-holdings, and charges for training take place. I've seen numerous pilots take a type rating and run...I've seen pilots get the type rating then sell themselves out the door of FSI or Simuflite, without ever returning home to give a day's service. Dirtbags like that are a dime a dozen, and you'll find many dozen nearly everywhere you look. With 95% of the pilot population not worth it's weight in wet salt, it's no wonder.

The ones who do have the honor and the responsibility to uphold an obligation, to stick with an employer and not leave one spinning in the wind, tend to build solid reputations that serve them well in the long run.

This seems like a foreign concept to you.

What is the deal with all of these places that want you to be type rated with time in type, 12 months experience, current 135 check then they put in the ad that they want a dedicated, professional pilot that will bend over backwards for the company!

How dare an operator ask for an experienced pilot, you ask? You can ask this with a straight face, then?

How dare an employer look for a current and qualified pilot, you ask? You really need to ask why an employer would like to see a current and qualified pilot?

How dare an employer look for a dedicated professional, you cry? Really?

Given your hubris, one might expect that employers should go out of their way to find unqualified, inexperienced pilots who declare up front that they would rather gargle rat poison than give any more than they absolutely must. Would you find that refreshing, instead?

"Wanted, inexperienced pilot with no time in type to work as little as possible, take as much as able, and give back nothing in return. Individuals with type ratings or current experience need not apply."

Happy?

 

[lionflyer]

An employer has every right to expect an employee to be dedicated. An employee who isn't fully prepared to provide a 100% effort isn't much of an employee, or a professional, at all.



Sure. There are plenty of good-for-nothing, sniveling, worthless, dishonorable, lying, cheating, foolhardy pilots out there who will jump ship at a moment's notice. Never mind that the employer is putting the bread on their table. An employee who takes a job should have the respect an honor to do the job as agreed, rather than leaving the employer high and dry at the first chance of a shekel or two more.

It's because of pilots like this, pilots who take and run, that the industry does see less pilots getting trained, and that contracts, with-holdings, and charges for training take place. I've seen numerous pilots take a type rating and run...I've seen pilots get the type rating then sell themselves out the door of FSI or Simuflite, without ever returning home to give a day's service. Dirtbags like that are a dime a dozen, and you'll find many dozen nearly everywhere you look. With 95% of the pilot population not worth it's weight in wet salt, it's no wonder.

The ones who do have the honor and the responsibility to uphold an obligation, to stick with an employer and not leave one spinning in the wind, tend to build solid reputations that serve them well in the long run.

This seems like a foreign concept to you.



How dare an operator ask for an experienced pilot, you ask? You can ask this with a straight face, then?

How dare an employer look for a current and qualified pilot, you ask? You really need to ask why an employer would like to see a current and qualified pilot?

How dare an employer look for a dedicated professional, you cry? Really?

Given your hubris, one might expect that employers should go out of their way to find unqualified, inexperienced pilots who declare up front that they would rather gargle rat poison than give any more than they absolutely must. Would you find that refreshing, instead?

"Wanted, inexperienced pilot with no time in type to work as little as possible, take as much as able, and give back nothing in return. Individuals with type ratings or current experience need not apply."

Happy?

Dirtbags huh??
Show me money and respect and I'll show loyalty. Give me a break! Show me one 135 outfit that isn't owned and operated by a $hitbag. I can tell you this: As long as you treat me like a professional and pay a decent wage, I will bust my a$$ for you. If not: Kiss it ( the a$$ that is) and my new type rating.

 

[avbug]

Show me money and respect and I'll show loyalty. Give me a break!

If you take the job, do the job. Give it 100%.

If you're not able to do that, then don't take the job.

I can tell you this: As long as you treat me like a professional and pay a decent wage, I will bust my a$$ for you. If not: Kiss it ( the a$$ that is) and my new type rating.

Knowing the score up front, you'll take the job and the type rating anyway, and then jump ship, then?

Another dishonest pilot. You're clearly one of the 95%. No surprise there.

 

[lionflyer]

If you take the job, do the job. Give it 100%.

If you're not able to do that, then don't take the job.



Knowing the score up front, you'll take the job and the type rating anyway, and then jump ship, then?

Another dishonest pilot. You're clearly one of the 95%. No surprise there.

I have given 100% with every employer I've ever been with. But when said employer fails to meet their end of the agreement I was hired under, don't be suprised when I bail type rating or not. Simply business my friend. Like I said, show me a 135 operater that's worth a $hit.

 

[avbug]

You believe no Part 135 operator is worth fecal material, yet you work for them anyway? You know the score walking in the door, take the job, then are surprised and leave?

 

[lionflyer]

You believe no Part 135 operator is worth fecal material, yet you work for them anyway? You know the score walking in the door, take the job, then are surprised and leave?

In fact one of the best jobs I ever had was a 135 outfit that flew 310's. I knew the deal going in and they treated me right. That was the last 135 outfit I worked for. I inteviewed for a couple of bigger 135's (Citations, Lears, etc) but saw the light and didn't take the job. I was at a company briefly that told me one thing and typed me, and then pulled a 180, so I left and don't regret it. And I don't hold it against anyone who's in the same position. You know what, I'll retract my statement that "ALL" 135 outfits are crap but most are. They just need to say: "Hey, we are gonna treat you like monkydung and keep you on call all the time and make you sign a 2yr training contract". I agree, if you take that job, then you reap what you sow.

 

[rettofly]

I retired 5 months ago from a Part 135 gig. Can't believe things have changed that much!

Does a type rating and experience in type waive the requirement for Company Initial under FAR 135 now?

New hires still have to train to the operator's New Hire syllabus and take a 135.293 check ride plus 135.299 for PICs, don't they?

 

[NCherches]

Part 91 are hands down better to work for (in 99.9% of cases). Most of those people don't rely on flying to make their money.

Everyone know's the best way to make a million in aviation is to start with 2 million

 

[Nolife]

I don't get it either. I've worked at several places that had training contracts and one dirtbag that even had recurrent contracts. The dirtbag didn't want you to leave once you had your training and type. They then turned around and wanted current qualified folks from other places to leave go work for them. Very hypocritical.

 

[gear_guy]

Supply and demand works both ways. Its a 2 way street. Right now the employers have all the weight. And most of them are taking advantage of it. Companies are no longer loyal to anybody. Why should I be? That being said...I work my rear off wherever God has put me. But when things turn around many companies will be looking to fill positions from good employees that simply got tired of being taken advantage of. You can't treat a person bad when jobs are scarce, and then expect them to be loyal when there are jobs-a-plenty!

The answer is simple....If you want loyalty from your employees than treat them like gold regardless of the economy. If times are bad and you have to take a pay cut, so be it. If I am valued, it won't matter. I will give you my all. Its a symbiotic relationship.

 

[NCherches]

...Hope im around to see this 'shortage of pilots' I have been hearing about for 10 years... maybe then we will all be respected like back in the glory days where pilot's were next to gods!

Until then... hang in there and try to have some fun. The worst day in the cockpit still beats the best day in a cubical.

 

[say again]

It's because of pilots like this, pilots who take and run, that the industry does see less pilots getting trained, and that contracts, with-holdings, and charges for training take place. I've seen numerous pilots take a type rating and run...I've seen pilots get the type rating then sell themselves out the door of FSI or Simuflite, without ever returning home to give a day's service. Dirtbags like that are a dime a dozen, and you'll find many dozen nearly everywhere you look. With 95% of the pilot population not worth it's weight in wet salt, it's no wonder.

Really? 95%? Get off your high f-ing horse. You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Im not saying it doesn't happen, but be serious. 95% hahaha. YGTBSM!!!!!! :laugh: Go live on your "Im Gods gift to aviation" fantasy world. :beer:

 

[captain]

What a great big can of worms I have opened. This whole post came from me being furloughed from the airlines, with no type ratings for the corporate world and being angry that with 9500 hours I am not qualified for a 135 outfit flying small jets.

Anyhow...

 

[avbug]

Really? 95%? Get off your high f-ing horse.

I speak of honoring a commitment, integrity, and living up to one's word. You see that as a high horse. Perhaps from where you are, looking up, living an honest standard is a bar set to high. For you, anyway.

Pity.

That would make you one of the 95% then, wouldn't it? Being worth less than wet salt must be a disappointment for you.

This whole post came from me being furloughed from the airlines, with no type ratings for the corporate world and being angry that with 9500 hours I am not qualified for a 135 outfit flying small jets.

Obviously.