Southwest evaluates -800's

[redflyer65]

Union openers have already been sent out. Decision to be made by Dec. 1

The trans-continental flights are jam packed. Looking at a 175 config. 38 more seats would be some big revenue.

 

[SteelerMan]

Think they've been evaluating them for some time now. Now the question is will they be paid at the same rate, or not. Something that will be very important if a smaller a/c is brought on property at some point.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Looks like the wait in the pool is about to get longer.

 

[Quiet Flight]

Now the question is will they be paid at the same rate, or not. Something that will be very important if a smaller a/c is brought on property at some point.

I think the UPS model works. One pay scale for all types driven by seat and longevity. MUCH easier to manage for everybody involved. And if a smaller type ever did appear, you don't have to worry about taking a pay cut for doing the same job. Because you know if we get paid more to fly -800/-900's, we will be expected to get paid LESS to fly the C-100/300. (Example only.)

Fire when ready.

 

[XR650R]

Just my opinion...Pay regardng the -800 should be the same as the -700. Smaller airplanes on the other hand would not be sustainable at current rates. You would basically be subsidizing a smaller fleet with the 737 fleet Maybe that still makes good economic sense in the grand scheme of things - I don't know- but if SWAPA digs it's heals in regarding smaller A/C pay, I doubt you'd ever see a smaller A/C at SWA. Maybe that's a good thing as well-

 

[pianoman]

Hey if they negotiate BETTER pay rates for the 737-800, that only helps us here at CAL.

 

[murano]

Just my opinion...Pay regardng the -800 should be the same as the -700. Smaller airplanes on the other hand would not be sustainable at current rates. You would basically be subsidizing a smaller fleet with the 737 fleet Maybe that still makes good economic sense in the grand scheme of things - I don't know- but if SWAPA digs it's heals in regarding smaller A/C pay, I doubt you'd ever see a smaller A/C at SWA. Maybe that's a good thing as well-

So what you're saying is, negotiate the rates for the 300/500/700 higher to reflect the 800 coming on the property? You're not implying the company get a free-for-all with bigger equipment right?

 

[michael707767]

Because you know if we get paid more to fly -800/-900's, we will be expected to get paid LESS to fly the C-100/300. (Example only.)

On the other hand, if you only have one pay scale, I suspect you will forever limit the size of the aircraft your company operates. SWA may be happy to pay the same for an 800/900. The business case supports it. But a business case built around paying a crew the same for a C-100 will not be the same.

I doubt very much you will ever see anything smaller than a 757 at UPS. Nor will the UPS pilots have an argument for more pay if the company opts to buy the A380 at some point.

I would favor a system similar to CAL. Essentially small, medium and large pay scales. I know here at Delta there is no reason not to pay the 88, 737, 320, and DC9 the same. I have seen guys moving from plane to plane chasing a couple of dollars an hour.

I would like to see one scale for the narrowbodies, one for the medium aircraft (757/767) and one for the big boys (330,764,777,747). That way you don't totally decouple aircraft size from pay, but you do even out the scale some and cut down on training costs.

 

[Whataburger]

Same pay.
I see us buying much more smaller jets than bigger jets.

 

[RedDogC130]

I would like to keep it like ups....one rate regardless of pax capacity

 

[FR8dognit]

One rate....the potential down side of smaller ac is much greater here even if we do get larger ac.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Looks like the wait in the pool is about to get longer.

Boo hoo....

Besides a pond would be good for you......

Getting you through training IF you get hired is going to need a side letter!! SWAPA better get to work on that.....

 

[XR650R]

So what you're saying is, negotiate the rates for the 300/500/700 higher to reflect the 800 coming on the property? You're not implying the company get a free-for-all with bigger equipment right?

All I'm saying is union/mgt issues aside- my guess is that you can't pay a 12 year SWA captain $200/hr to fly a C100/300 into smaller markets, going head to head with Republic with their sub-standard rates and expect to recover the same yield.
I too would love to see the spreadsheets.

I'm firmly in the small/medium/large camp.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

All I'm saying is union/mgt issues aside- my guess is that you can't pay a 12 year SWA captain $200/hr to fly a C100/300 into smaller markets, going head to head with Republic with their sub-standard rates and expect to recover the same yield.
I too would love to see the spreadsheets.

I'm firmly in the small/medium/large camp.

You sound like management. Sure the pure numbers would support a SLIGHT cost advantage for Republic when going head to head.....a hundred or so bucks an hour.....if SWA is worried about that small advantage, then you should pull out (rhetorical and sarcastic).

SWA can leverage other strengths and will still kick Republic tail regardless.....here's hoping for it!

 

[Fly2AK]

Union openers have already been sent out. Decision to be made by Dec. 1

The trans-continental flights are jam packed. Looking at a 175 config. 38 more seats would be some big revenue.

The 800's I am flying are all coach and have 189 pax. How will they configure the aircraft, will they have the club seating? I haven't been on a SWA flight in years, not sure if they are still doing the rear facing seats.

 

[B727Driver]

Keep one single aisle pay scale regardless of the number of seats, then negotiate a widebody pay scale for the larger equipment. Try this for starters.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Boo hoo....

Besides a pond would be good for you......

Getting you through training IF you get hired is going to need a side letter!! SWAPA better get to work on that.....

Be nice Lumberg! I didn't force you to take a crappy job at Delta. Or to take pay concessions for that matter. Therefore, there's no reason to project such hostilities towards me. Besides, if SWA doesn't start hiring soon I may have to join you over at Delta until things improve.

 

[waveflyer]

One blended rate- establish a rate for each airplane and average it fleet wide-
the other thing to consider are our own financial choices-
I can't tell you how many mainline pilots I know that would rather be flying domestic turns but financially have to bid for larger craft nc it's so weighted towards the top.
I'd hate to see that dynamic at WN

 

[Quiet Flight]

I have seen guys moving from plane to plane chasing a couple of dollars an hour.

This is the # 1 reason I personally would like to see one pay scale at SWA. Jumping around for a few dollars ends up costing the company a fortune in training and otehr areas which in turn affects profit sharing and long term viability. (ROIC, organic growth, fleet upgrades, etc.) I think the one FAIR pay scale model keeps this in check. We shall see...

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Be nice Lumberg! I didn't force you to take a crappy job at Delta. Or to take pay concessions for that matter. Therefore, there's no reason to project such hostilities towards me. Besides, if SWA doesn't start hiring soon I may have to join you over at Delta until things improve.

If the job is so crappy...why even think about coming here.....

wannabe

 

[hyflyin]

Ah.....you kill me Lumberg....

 

[XR650R]

You sound like management. Sure the pure numbers would support a SLIGHT cost advantage for Republic when going head to head.....a hundred or so bucks an hour.....if SWA is worried about that small advantage, then you should pull out (rhetorical and sarcastic).

Damn you caught me. Hi my name is Gary..

Actually I just like to try to look at all perspectives. That whole "Max pay to the last day" BS really gets to me. I think as pilots one has to realize that there has to be some chance of having the route be self-sustaining. IF RJ's were ever looked at, and the C100 is an RJ as far as I'm concerned, SWA would simply pass on the opportunity if crew cost were deemed to high. It's not my place to try to figure out whats too high. That could possibly be a lot of new hires that will still float in the pool. Again maybe keeping the fleet pure is better than trying to tackle the whole RJ problem in the first place. I'd rather see SWAPA tackle the 787 rates.

 

[Skybus]

Was at a meeting recently and GK said highly unlikely to look at smaller. Said much more likely to go larger rather smaller. I would agree with that as well. Not gonna happen.

 

[texman]

Was at a meeting recently and GK said highly unlikely to look at smaller. Said much more likely to go larger rather smaller. I would agree with that as well. Not gonna happen.

What I see is us negotiate a same pay then they will request the same when the 787 comes.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I'd rather see SWAPA tackle the 787 rates.

This is the funniest thing I have seen on FI in months!!

Can they configure the cockpit with switches close to a 737 overhead?

 

[texman]

This is the funniest thing I have seen on FI in months!!

Can they configure the cockpit with switches close to a 737 overhead?

No but what you will see is us merge with AL. Dominate the west coast and HI. All along as jet Blue takes over the east coast/caribe and merge with the new AL and WN. Then the 787 will come.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ok.....good joke....look in the mirror and say "My Hero!"

 

[StopNTSing]

What I see is us negotiate a same pay then they will request the same when the 787 comes.

Maybe you haven't been paying attention lately, but we already make 787 pay. This is why it is an opportune time to shore-up the downside (i.e. protect pay rates if company decides on 100-seaters), because the potential for meaningful gains on the upside (787s) is tough when you're already holding the bar. If the other airlines can finally "take it back" like they keep saying they will (and I sincerely hope they can), that will provide a tremendous boost for our next Sect 6. Then we can raise the single rate we will hopefully soon settle on for ALL types of aircraft that SWAPA pilots eventually fly.

 

[waveflyer]

This is the # 1 reason I personally would like to see one pay scale at SWA. Jumping around for a few dollars ends up costing the company a fortune in training and otehr areas which in turn affects profit sharing and long term viability. (ROIC, organic growth, fleet upgrades, etc.) I think the one FAIR pay scale model keeps this in check. We shall see...

Well said- my thoughts exactly

 

[waveflyer]

Gary- full pay til the last day has it's place- that place just doesn't happen to be southwest airlines- they fully deserve our best and an efficient career path- but I've worked at places that did not- and I don't judge those who get theirs when their mgmt is all about the same thing.

I would just hate for pilots to end up doing flying they'd rather not be doing- costing the company $$$ training all the ripple effects- when that pilot is simply doing it to pay the bills. I see no benefit to multiple rates-

now that said- set a rate for each plane- but realize we're ALL on the same team whether we fly a q400 as was thought of during the frontier mess or a 787- set an appropriate rate and blend it into one so that we all end up profiting off the new type whether bigger or smaller AND all are doing the type of flying we would like to do.