Vision Airlines to fly struck Spirit Flights

[oz8910]

Hearing that this airline is lined up on a contract to fly struck routes aka. scab flights for Spirit. What does any one know about this outfit or rumor?

 

[BUDDHA145]

Hmmm, got a friend there, he ha s not mention a thing!!
But Im sure that the scab hunters will have the cameras
ready!!! I just can remember the website.... Anyone??

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Vision Air has 16 aircraft which include 9 Dornier 228/328s.
Spirit has 31 airbuses.
So is Spirit planning on flying about 20% of their flight schedule and still make money???

cliff
LFW

 

[Chairman]

Bunch of Furloughed UAL guys flying the 737 for them. I doubt there will be anyone flying

 

[flyboycmsu]

Plus they could only fly domestic stuff...

 

[oz8910]

According to Spirit MEC they have been contacted by spirit to fly 4 legs domesic with a couple of 737. The union is moving to contact them about this but vision is non union. I hope that the United guys that are there are not put in a bad positon. Spirit management er dismissed USair and Skybus will do anything to avoid doing the right thing for its employees.

 

[flyboycmsu]

Don't forget the disaster that was Sun Country trying to replace ONE of our jets when it went out for unexpected maint. This is nothing more than an attempt by management to grab at straws for leverage.
Keep your eye on the prize boys, don't be distracted.

 

[critterair2]

Lots of those guys commute on us out of ACY, I'd hate to see what happens to their commute if they do

 

[:-)]

Don't forget the disaster that was Sun Country trying to replace ONE of our jets when it went out for unexpected maint. This is nothing more than an attempt by management to grab at straws for leverage.
Keep your eye on the prize boys, don't be distracted.

what he said!

 

[Headfake14]

Today is the 3rd....9 days to go I think? The 12th?

 

[CX880]

Hi!

Vision Air has 16 aircraft which include 9 Dornier 228/328s.
Spirit has 31 airbuses.
So is Spirit planning on flying about 20% of their flight schedule and still make money???

cliff
LFW

Spirt does not have that many airplanes. I'm sure there's tons of 737 charter ops that are not too busy that could cover the flying. The problem is will these 737 pilot risk their jobs by not flying struck work? If they all say no, then it would be hard for their management to agree to do the flying. The other issue for Spirit, is even if they do cover the struck work, what then? They'll have to train pilots out of seniority and terminate the rest. I think it's all BS, management probably has the new contract ready to go but you just never know and Spirit prides itself in being an ultra bottom feeder and those are the most dangerous.

 

[thunderworm]

If one company is not union and they pick up routes for another company that is I think it is hard to call the pilots scabs as they are just doing their job. It is a very bad position to be in for the pilots as they have no protection whatsoever and it is not like spirit will hire them after they are fired from their airline for not flying. This is a scenario that I have been comtemplating for a while as I am not currently in that situation but could be in the future. would really like some good opinions on the whole thing.

 

[CX880]

If one company is not union and they pick up routes for another company that is I think it is hard to call the pilots scabs as they are just doing their job. It is a very bad position to be in for the pilots as they have no protection whatsoever and it is not like spirit will hire them after they are fired from their airline for not flying. This is a scenario that I have been comtemplating for a while as I am not currently in that situation but could be in the future. would really like some good opinions on the whole thing.

They would be Scabs. It's very simple. Their only choice would be to collectively say no.

 

[thunderworm]

thats a hard "no" to say when not everyone will be on board. Maybe a third would have the guts to do it, the others wouldn't, and now they are fired becuase of no protection. now are the guys that they hire to replace those fired also scabs? Is everybody who is not willing to risk their livlyhood for someone else's benifet also a scab. it is very easy for someone to say " not my problem" and turn the other side. I just don't think it is that simple. I would like to think that they aould convince the company not to do it as I am sure that a pay raise at spirit would benefit them as well just not in their shoes so hard to say.

 

[doug_or]

If you fly struck work you are a scab. There aren't really any exceptions. Yes it would suck to lose your job over someone elses strike, but it would also suck to be stuck at visionair for your entire career because you're on a list.

 

[Vertigo37]

I do not post a lot, but this is important.

I "en-Vision" historically higher number of go-arounds with any Spirit-fed flight operating after their MEC walks.

I'm only saving my company money with the reduced braking costs and the lower use of fuel with by using minimum thrust reverser. Unfortunately that requires a longer rollout and more time on the runway.

Suggest ATC space those flights out at 20 miles if anyone wants to get in.

Good luck Spirit

 

[BeachBummer]

Birds on final "go around!"

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Most of the guys flying at Vision, the 737 ops, are furloughed Ual and out of work ATA. ALPA has done nothing for the guys at ATA after the shutdown. These guys are lucky to be flying at all in this economy. Are they supposed to risk being fired for Spirit? Just a thought....

 

[Alert height]

Yes

The answer is yes.

I am former ATA who has found work at another airline. I would never consider flying struck work. While I am no lawyer, I believe labor laws are such that you can not be fired for refusing to cross a legal picket line which is exactly what you would be doing.

Those that take a Vision Air aircraft into the air to fly a Spirit flight will forever have the Scab notation next to their name. Your picture will be posted on the internet for all to see. Good luck on your commute or finding another job at an ALPA airline.

 

[cmrflyer]

lovely MGA.

 

[enigma]

The answer is yes.

I am former ATA who has found work at another airline. I would never consider flying struck work. While I am no lawyer, I believe labor laws are such that you can not be fired for refusing to cross a legal picket line which is exactly what you would be doing.

Those that take a Vision Air aircraft into the air to fly a Spirit flight will forever have the Scab notation next to their name. Your picture will be posted on the internet for all to see. Good luck on your commute or finding another job at an ALPA airline.

It is in some way unfair that a pilot is asked to take a bullet for someone else without any consideration given in return.

It is what it is. Life isn't fair.

You are correct, any pilot flying any airplane that puts money in Spirit's pocket will be branded a SCAB. SCAB will never go away.

But there might be a way for ALPA to help you out. Think about this.....

If you're a furloughed union pilot flying for visionair pilot and you man up and refuse to fly our struck work, call your Union Rep at UAL or wherever and let them know. We can't guarantee anything, but if we win this battle, it is highly likely that we will hire soon. Some clandestine ops may be required, but I think we can get you a Spirit seat. Think about it.

 

[Skyboy722]

While I am no lawyer, I believe labor laws are such that you can not be fired for refusing to cross a legal picket line which is exactly what you would be doing.

I think this is right. Can anyone find it? Either way, if you cross, you're a scab.

 

[Golden Falcon]

If you fly struck work you are a scab. There aren't really any exceptions. Yes it would suck to lose your job over someone elses strike, but it would also suck to be stuck at visionair for your entire career because you're on a list.

Not condoning flying struck work, or crossing picket lines, but history has proven that the "list" is a hollow threat..read your history books if ou're to young to have experienced it...

 

[27 driver]

Forget about the list. Just do the right thing morally an ethically. Refuse the flight. Call in sick. Use personal time. Take yourself out of the position. The rest of your career will be tough if you cross the line. Keep in mind that there are pilots on most if not all hiring boards that are part of a union. Don't think they won't check.

 

[okcplt]

but you just never know and Spirit prides itself in being an ultra bottom feeder and those are the most dangerous.

I have a former friend that went through the interview process, got hired and was offered employment with NWA. He declined the job offer after all that and stayed at Spirit.

Why you ask?

1. Because he was based in Detroit.
2. He didn't fly much.
3. He was going to make Captain very quickly.

Now?

1. He commutes to Florida from Michigan on one of the most notorious commutes in the business.

2. He flys more 'back-side-of-the-clock' than a freight-dog in a clapped out DC9 does.

3. He usually can't find an empty seat to try and get home when he does get days off.

4. He is still an FO and is broke.

When I talk to him it usually sounds as if he's contemplating going to the hardware store to buy a rope for himself.

Life is all about choices. He made a seriously bad one. Spirit has been what it is since the first day it turned a prop. If you hang your hat there, you get what you deserve.

Now you want someone else to take the bullet for you?

Total BS!

 

[27 driver]

I have a former friend that went through the interview process, got hired and was offered employment with NWA. He declined the job offer after all that and stayed at Spirit.

Why you ask?

1. Because he was based in Detroit.
2. He didn't fly much.
3. He was going to make Captain very quickly.

Now?

1. He commutes to Florida from Michigan on one of the most notorious commutes in the business.

2. He flys more 'back-side-of-the-clock' than a freight-dog in a clapped out DC9 does.

3. He usually can't find an empty seat to try and get home when he does get days off.

4. He is still an FO and is broke.

When I talk to him it usually sounds as if he's contemplating going to the hardware store to buy a rope for himself.

Life is all about choices. He made a seriously bad one. Spirit has been what it is since the first day it turned a prop. If you hang your hat there, you get what you deserve.

Now you want someone else to take the bullet for you?

Total BS!

The same could have been said about Southwest, Fedex, and UPS in the early days. How do you know it won't turn into a great airline and great place to work. Nobody knows. Talk to the guys at the Legacy's that have been furloughed 3 or 4 times and see how great it is at American, US Air, United, and Alaska to name a few. You just never know. And yes we all expect everyone to refuse struck work. Its the right thing to do. I don't work for Spirit but support them 100%.

 

[HalinTexas]

If Spirit does strike, which I doubt, I think there will be more Spirit pilots crossing the line than Vision, or other airline, pilots flying struck work. If Spirit ALPA does not define it as struck work, then it isn't.

 

[S40Sailor]

I have a former friend that went through the interview process, got hired and was offered employment with NWA. He declined the job offer after all that and stayed at Spirit.

Why you ask?

1. Because he was based in Detroit.
2. He didn't fly much.
3. He was going to make Captain very quickly.

Now?

1. He commutes to Florida from Michigan on one of the most notorious commutes in the business.

2. He flys more 'back-side-of-the-clock' than a freight-dog in a clapped out DC9 does.

3. He usually can't find an empty seat to try and get home when he does get days off.

4. He is still an FO and is broke.

When I talk to him it usually sounds as if he's contemplating going to the hardware store to buy a rope for himself.

Life is all about choices. He made a seriously bad one. Spirit has been what it is since the first day it turned a prop. If you hang your hat there, you get what you deserve.

Now you want someone else to take the bullet for you?

Total BS!

Are you sugesting that since your friend made a bad Decision, Stay in DTW, It is ok for others to scab?

 

[Gearthrower]

If Spirit does strike, which I doubt, I think there will be more Spirit pilots crossing the line than Vision, or other airline, pilots flying struck work. If Spirit ALPA does not define it as struck work, then it isn't.

I believe this should settle any doubt.

SUBJECT: Spirit Master Executive Council definition of “struck work”.


SOURCE: Spirit Master Executive Council


BACKGROUND: The pilots of Spirit Airlines have been engaged in Section 6 contract negotiations with management since 2007 and have been in federal mediation under the auspices of the National Mediation Board (NMB) since 2008.

WHEREAS: The Spirit pilots have overwhelmingly authorized the Spirit MEC to call a lawful strike when authorized by law and as deemed appropriate by the MEC, and

WHEREAS: The Spirit MEC is finalizing their preparations to engage in a legal job action should the NMB release the pilots of Spirit, as represented by ALPA, to engage in lawful self-help pursuant to the procedures of the Railway Labor Act and the Spirit MEC determines that it is appropriate to withdraw services after the expiration of the NMB-set cooling-off period, and

WHEREAS: If ALPA is unable to reach an agreement with management prior to a strike deadline and a lawful strike is directed by the Spirit MEC, and

WHEREAS: it is the intent of ALPA and the Spirit MEC to make a lawful strike, should it prove necessary, as short and as effective possible, and

WHEREAS: The Spirit MEC intends that no Spirit aircraft move after commencement of a strike, and for cessation of service to be total with regard to all flight and ground related operations of Spirit Airlines, or any other activity for or on the behalf of Spirit Airlines that provides financial benefit to Spirit Airlines during a strike, as determined by the Spirit MEC, and

WHEREAS: Article VIII, Section 1 A. (5) of the ALPA Constitution and Bylaws states that an ALPA member “may be disciplined, fined or expelled…(for) performing work for or assisting an airline during a period when the members of the Association are on strike against such airline”, and

WHEREAS: The Spirit MEC does not, however, consider to be “struck work” the post-strike performance of flying over Spirit Airline’s routes, frequencies, pairings, destinations or operations by pilots of other carriers, so long as such carriers and pilots do not conduct such flying or operations for, on behalf of, or for the benefit of Spirit Airlines, through wet-lease, ACMI, charter, or other similar agreement or arrangement for, on behalf of, or otherwise benefiting Spirit Airlines, as determined by the Spirit MEC, and

WHEREA S: All pilots should be on notice as to the Spirit MEC’s definition of “struck work.”

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED by the Spirit Master Executive Council (MEC), in light of the fact that the overwhelming majority of Spirit pilots have voted to authorize the MEC to direct a lawful withdrawal of services (Strike) after such time that the appropriate government agencies authorize such activity, that the following activities by any member during such Strike shall constitute a breach of the struck work rules set forth below, which shall remain in effect until the Spirit MEC declares an end to the Strike and authorizes a return to work.

No pilot shall, during a Strike authorized by the Spirit MEC:

(1) Operate or occupy in any capacity, any aircraft owned, leased by, operated for the benefit of, under the code, call sign of, or in the service of Spirit Airlines, Inc., unless a flight is already commenced at the time of the start of the strike and is terminated upon first landing, as detailed in the Spirit MEC Strike Manual.

(2) Participate in any ground, flight, or simulator training relating to qualification of any person as a Spirit pilot, or otherwise for any purpose for the benefit of Spirit Airlines.

(3) Participate in the recruitment of strike breakers, replacement workers (scabs) for Spirit Airlines.

(4) Perform any other function for, or at the request of, Spirit Airlines, its management, successors, or personnel, unless specifically authorized by the Spirit MEC or its Chairman, including but are not limited to, attendance at company meetings and appointments with company officials, agents, or managers.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that it shall not be considered, however, the performance of “struck work” for ALPA officials, staff, and authorized Spirit MEC representatives or designees to meet with Spirit Airlines management or their representatives in conjunction with the performance of official ALPA duties during the strike, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that The Spirit MEC does not consider to be “struck work” and in fact encourages the post-strike performance of, flying over Spirit Airline’s routes, frequencies, pairings, destinations or operations by pilots of other carriers, so long as such carriers and pilots do not conduct such flying or operations for, on behalf of, or for the benefit of Spirit Airlines, through wet-lease, ACMI, charter, or other similar agreement or arrangement for, on behalf of, or otherwise benefiting Spirit Airlines, as determined by the Spirit MEC, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that, if any member violates any of the struck work rules specified above, that member may, as a result of such conduct, be considered a scab, and subject to expulsion, fines, and discipline as specified in Article VIII Section 1 A.(5) of the ALPA Constitution and By-laws, subject to the provisions and procedures set forth in Article VIII of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Spirit MEC authorizes and directs the Spirit MEC Chairman to contact and coordinate with ALPA’s Officers to ensure that all of the Association’s resources and relationships with other pilot unions, including member pilot unions within the International Federation of Air Line Pilots (IFALPA), are fully mustered to ensure that other pilots groups receive notice of, and understand these struck work definitions, so that no pilots will fly, train pilots or otherwise perform services by or for the benefit of Spirit Airlines, by among other things, servicing any wet lease, ACMI, or other agreement or arrangement for the benefit Spirit Airlines in the event of a lawful strike declared by the Spirit MEC, without the prior express consent of the Association.

 

[Mike man]

... If you hang your hat there, you get what you deserve...

That isn't very nice is it...

I don't think anyone is asking anyone else to take a bullet for us, we are asking for people to stay off the SCAB list and not SCAB.