Bottom of the list of CAL

[thor2j]

Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but what makes people think people won't be laid off as a result of this merger? Won't duplicative routes require a reduction in manpower requirements? I realize there aren't many duplicative routes (very complementary route structures) but there is some limited overlap. I see potential revenue synergies (offering new routes to existing corporate clients) but I am sure there are also some flying related costs that can be cut to boost some margins - right?

The 70 seat RJ issue will be interesting to watch with the CAL/UAL CEO. There are definitely some routes in the CAL system that could be filled with 70 seaters (matching supply with demand) and yet CAL scope won't allow it. Should be interesting to watch the tug of war that will result...

Considering there were many more overlaps at Delta/NWA, and this wont be implemented for two years, dont see the furloughs. On top of this there will be 787 deliveries, and in 2 1/2 years massive retirements, talking 600+/yr.
Also, there will be alot of scared over and near 60 guys at CAL sweating their A fund.

 

[jtf]

How likely is it that CAL pilots start getting recalled to CAL before the merger actually takes place? Are there any hints of recall for the summer busy season? It is just announced, but I'd have to guess it won't be really done until well into the fall, if allowed and not torpedoed by any labor group. I hope you guys and gals can force a better joint contract than Delta (not slamming Delta, just hoping the bar keeps moving up).

 

[thor2j]

Recalls supposedly to be on August bid. They say merger wont be complete until mid 2012.

 

[contrail67]

The list I saw was created by a UAL pilot and obviously a wet dream. It'll go by relative seniority +/- a few percent at a bare minimum. I don't think anyone will get a windfall over anyone and it'll be fair. The only thing that won't be fair is if you're furloughed. Sucks, plain and simple. I have several friends that are furloughed at CAL and they're screwed. But with retirements coming, impending pilot shortage, new JCBA, scope reduction on UAL's side, and work rules on CAL's side....I SERIOUSLY DOUBT they'll be out long. Hell, they might just recall everyone shortly. We all need to focus on what we can achieve as UAL pilots as a whole. Work together, we'll achieve alot....not.....not so much. Our choice.

What is your opinion if United goes to Uniteds work rules instead of Cal's...how many jobs will that create?

 

[cale42]

How likely is it that CAL pilots start getting recalled to CAL before the merger actually takes place? Are there any hints of recall for the summer busy season? It is just announced, but I'd have to guess it won't be really done until well into the fall, if allowed and not torpedoed by any labor group. I hope you guys and gals can force a better joint contract than Delta (not slamming Delta, just hoping the bar keeps moving up).

Traditionally the active/furlough status is based on the dates that the merger is "finalized". Now I'm not entirely sure what constitutes finalized if that is when the companies agree, when certain financial criteria are met, or when DOJ approval is received. It's distinctly possible that today was the date that will be used.

This prevents a company from acquiring another one furloughing all the pilots and replacing them and then saying they were furloughed and stapling them. For example when RAH acquired Midwest they had around 117 active pilots, so for integration purposes those folks are considered active even though Midwest will have been gone for well over a year by the time any SLI is done.

cale

 

[IAHERJ]

I don't want to start anything here but I do have a good hunch that CAL will be recalling pilots this year(sooner rather than later) to meet the current flying schedule. We have already had a few retirements that were unexpected last week. With aircraft arriving this year(finally getting the seat issue worked out with Boeing) we will need more butts in seats. The company is planning on some more retirements now this year based on the merger announcement and if new hires are needed by the Fall, a deal is most likely going to be worked out where UAL furloughed pilots will come onto CAL "property" to meet the staffing needs. No flight reductions are planned in the combined company so whomever(in seniority order) from UAL does come on board to fly the CAL aircraft should be a part of the initial "flush" bid in 2012 and able to bid into a UAL or CAL base based on their combined seniority. A deal will be worked out with the CAL/UAL MECs and the new UAL management later this Summer I'm told. With the retirements scheduled at the combined carrier plus the early out options that I'm told are going to be on the table for the senior guys, I'd expect all pilots who want to come back to work to be flying by 2013 with hiring in 2014. I so confident in this I hope somebody archives this post to look at in 4 years. If I'm wrong, so be it.

IAHERJ

 

[Boz]

Well, there is going to be a ton of discussion on this merger. Just hope the two carriers come up with a viable plan that will sustain jobs for all those involved. Furloughed pilots interest in my opinion will be worked out. Retirements, attrition, early severance packages to SAM employees will take shape in the next few months. We all are starving for information and obviously want it yesterday. Be patient, don't engage in the rumor mill as it will drive you nuts. There is a website that can inform you of the combined direction of both carriers. Personally, I think it is a good thing, yet that will be determined with time. Good luck to us all...Just hope we don't rush to judgement as this integration will take time to come up with an industry leading contract for the industry.

www.unitedcontinentalmerger.com

 

[Shrek]

The list I saw was created by a UAL pilot and obviously a wet dream. It'll go by relative seniority +/- a few percent at a bare minimum. I don't think anyone will get a windfall over anyone and it'll be fair. The only thing that won't be fair is if you're furloughed. Sucks, plain and simple. I have several friends that are furloughed at CAL and they're screwed. But with retirements coming, impending pilot shortage, new JCBA, scope reduction on UAL's side, and work rules on CAL's side....I SERIOUSLY DOUBT they'll be out long. Hell, they might just recall everyone shortly. We all need to focus on what we can achieve as UAL pilots as a whole. Work together, we'll achieve alot....not.....not so much. Our choice.

We have come along way apart - let's continue unified and we will accomplish all of our goals and more.

I will buy the first round if you are in Saigon anytime soon

 

[jtf]

With the retirements scheduled at the combined carrier plus the early out options that I'm told are going to be on the table for the senior guys, I'd expect all pilots who want to come back to work to be flying by 2013 with hiring in 2014. I so confident in this I hope somebody archives this post to look at in 4 years. If I'm wrong, so be it.

IAHERJ

I hope you're right. I have a lot of friends who will probably go back if the merger goes through.

 

[FDJ2]

Most likely scenario is a relative seniority merger ala Delta/NWA. They will not take furloughed pilots and put them ahead of active pilots.

Your probably right with one minor correction, DAL/NWA was a category/status ratioed list. With an adjustment for the greater percentage of NWA retirements in the near term (274 pilots pulled out, than plugged back in)

 

[captain]

Did anyone bring the popcorn...

 

[bluefin]

UAL mec sent out a letter today, basically stating that the seniority snapshot of both lists was taken yesterday. So regardless if you get recalled this summer you are out of the picture. As a furloughed former U guy, I also spoke to someone in the real "KNOW" and was basically told in not exact words, "if you got something going, do it, don't hold your breath". Exact words were, "its gonna be a long time". To all for what its worth.

 

[IAHERJ]

UAL mec sent out a letter today, basically stating that the seniority snapshot of both lists was taken yesterday. So regardless if you get recalled this summer you are out of the picture. As a furloughed former U guy, I also spoke to someone in the real "KNOW" and was basically told in not exact words, "if you got something going, do it, don't hold your breath". Exact words were, "its gonna be a long time". To all for what its worth.

You are exactly correct with regards to the snapshot being taken yesterday. That's where it gets difficult. CAL has to recall to fly the schedule for the remainder of 2010 and will need even more to fly the 2011 schedule as it is right now. It is only fair that the pilots brought on to do this come from the UAL list. What happens when the SLI is finalized by the arbitrator? The idea is not to have to furlough again at that point. I think the new management will be very careful to work something out with the UAL MEC that addresses this concern. I have faith in the CALMEC and UALMEC in that they will come to an agreement with Jeff and company that works out best for all those furloughed.

 

[johnsonrod]

Perhaps the USAirways pilots could recommend an arbitrator to help with the process...

 

[acbarney]

Perhaps the USAirways pilots could recommend an arbitrator to help with the process...

CAL's merger committee chairman was one of the pilot neutrals on the U/AWA arbitration