Bottom of the list of CAL

[anewunion]

What happens to the bottom of the list of CAL. Do the UAL guys on furlough come back, and the bottom of the list at CAL go out ?

 

[thor2j]

Most likely scenario is a relative seniority merger ala Delta/NWA. They will not take furloughed pilots and put them ahead of active pilots.

 

[anewunion]

Most likely scenario is a relative seniority merger ala Delta/NWA. They will not take furloughed pilots and put them ahead of active pilots.

That must be it. They will be placed on the relative list, but will only be able to come back if the new UAL was to hire. Does that sound right?

That's what DAL did.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Relax, it'll probably go by relative seniority. There's a rumor about the top 10 percent and the bottom 10 percent based on a formula and everyone else based on relative, but that's false. I just got an email from one of our Merger Committee members and he says it's completely false. He said nothing has been finalized or discussed. Unfortunately furloughed pilots aren't considered and will be brought in at the bottom. They won't be brought back ahead of you either. Anyhow, I'm gonna have a drink.....this is gonna be quite a ride.

 

[amcnd]

So CO has 147 pilots on the street and UA has 1477... So if they do go with a "Delta contract" would they have to recall?

 

[Whine Lover]

From the new web site addressing the merger:

For Employees:

"The companies believe front-line employees will be minimally affected by the merger, with the reductions coming principally from retirements, attrition and voluntary programs."


Yup....I believe in magic in a young girls heart.

Do YOU believe in magic?

If not...you will only be "minimally affected". So, not to worry.


YKMKR

 

[ForgedBlade]

Tentative seniority list has you at relatively the same percentage at both CAL and with the merger. One of my buddies e-mailed it to me earlier, although I don't know if it came from the union of if another source slapped it together...

 

[Bigoober]

Forged, probably don't want to call that a tentative list as nothing is tentative since it hasn't been discussed in any detail. Also, that list, if it is the same one I saw floating about is just a wild guess.

 

[whatitdoing?]

The list I saw was created by a UAL pilot and obviously a wet dream. It'll go by relative seniority +/- a few percent at a bare minimum. I don't think anyone will get a windfall over anyone and it'll be fair. The only thing that won't be fair is if you're furloughed. Sucks, plain and simple. I have several friends that are furloughed at CAL and they're screwed. But with retirements coming, impending pilot shortage, new JCBA, scope reduction on UAL's side, and work rules on CAL's side....I SERIOUSLY DOUBT they'll be out long. Hell, they might just recall everyone shortly. We all need to focus on what we can achieve as UAL pilots as a whole. Work together, we'll achieve alot....not.....not so much. Our choice.

 

[thor2j]

So CO has 147 pilots on the street and UA has 1477... So if they do go with a "Delta contract" would they have to recall?

Delta contract is terrible, not going to happen

 

[ForgedBlade]

Forged, probably don't want to call that a tentative list as nothing is tentative since it hasn't been discussed in any detail. Also, that list, if it is the same one I saw floating about is just a wild guess.

Oops, meant to call it "speculative"...

 

[johnsonrod]

Don't most mergers result in cost cutting (i.e., employees)?

Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but what makes people think people won't be laid off as a result of this merger? Won't duplicative routes require a reduction in manpower requirements? I realize there aren't many duplicative routes (very complementary route structures) but there is some limited overlap. I see potential revenue synergies (offering new routes to existing corporate clients) but I am sure there are also some flying related costs that can be cut to boost some margins - right?

The 70 seat RJ issue will be interesting to watch with the CAL/UAL CEO. There are definitely some routes in the CAL system that could be filled with 70 seaters (matching supply with demand) and yet CAL scope won't allow it. Should be interesting to watch the tug of war that will result...

 

[Iflyamouse]

I don't think anyone will get a windfall over anyone and it'll be fair.

What a novel idea ... anyone remember Two Great Airlines, One Great Future!!

 

[WolfManPack]

Not True - Fact

The only thing that won't be fair is if you're furloughed. Sucks, plain and simple. I have several friends that are furloughed at CAL and they're screwed.

This is absolutely not accurate. I understand what you're trying to say here but for the CAL furloughed pilots on this message board, this is simply not true.

Just putting that out there!

Everyone take a deep breath here.

 

[COpilot]

Oops, meant to call it "speculative"...

I have that list too (sorry can't get it to attach) but it is excellent for what it is; a straight percentage list of both groups. It is a good resource to gauge movement of yours (or others) position on the list when things start to move.

 

[thor2j]

Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but what makes people think people won't be laid off as a result of this merger? Won't duplicative routes require a reduction in manpower requirements? I realize there aren't many duplicative routes (very complementary route structures) but there is some limited overlap. I see potential revenue synergies (offering new routes to existing corporate clients) but I am sure there are also some flying related costs that can be cut to boost some margins - right?

The 70 seat RJ issue will be interesting to watch with the CAL/UAL CEO. There are definitely some routes in the CAL system that could be filled with 70 seaters (matching supply with demand) and yet CAL scope won't allow it. Should be interesting to watch the tug of war that will result...

Considering there were many more overlaps at Delta/NWA, and this wont be implemented for two years, dont see the furloughs. On top of this there will be 787 deliveries, and in 2 1/2 years massive retirements, talking 600+/yr.
Also, there will be alot of scared over and near 60 guys at CAL sweating their A fund.

 

[jtf]

How likely is it that CAL pilots start getting recalled to CAL before the merger actually takes place? Are there any hints of recall for the summer busy season? It is just announced, but I'd have to guess it won't be really done until well into the fall, if allowed and not torpedoed by any labor group. I hope you guys and gals can force a better joint contract than Delta (not slamming Delta, just hoping the bar keeps moving up).

 

[thor2j]

Recalls supposedly to be on August bid. They say merger wont be complete until mid 2012.

 

[contrail67]

The list I saw was created by a UAL pilot and obviously a wet dream. It'll go by relative seniority +/- a few percent at a bare minimum. I don't think anyone will get a windfall over anyone and it'll be fair. The only thing that won't be fair is if you're furloughed. Sucks, plain and simple. I have several friends that are furloughed at CAL and they're screwed. But with retirements coming, impending pilot shortage, new JCBA, scope reduction on UAL's side, and work rules on CAL's side....I SERIOUSLY DOUBT they'll be out long. Hell, they might just recall everyone shortly. We all need to focus on what we can achieve as UAL pilots as a whole. Work together, we'll achieve alot....not.....not so much. Our choice.

What is your opinion if United goes to Uniteds work rules instead of Cal's...how many jobs will that create?

 

[cale42]

How likely is it that CAL pilots start getting recalled to CAL before the merger actually takes place? Are there any hints of recall for the summer busy season? It is just announced, but I'd have to guess it won't be really done until well into the fall, if allowed and not torpedoed by any labor group. I hope you guys and gals can force a better joint contract than Delta (not slamming Delta, just hoping the bar keeps moving up).

Traditionally the active/furlough status is based on the dates that the merger is "finalized". Now I'm not entirely sure what constitutes finalized if that is when the companies agree, when certain financial criteria are met, or when DOJ approval is received. It's distinctly possible that today was the date that will be used.

This prevents a company from acquiring another one furloughing all the pilots and replacing them and then saying they were furloughed and stapling them. For example when RAH acquired Midwest they had around 117 active pilots, so for integration purposes those folks are considered active even though Midwest will have been gone for well over a year by the time any SLI is done.

cale