You are welcome Westies

[FlickerFade]

Wow for someone with 12000 hours your not too smart. Not surprising. Decades ago as you put it Rochester flights were always full do to Kodak being there as well as other companies until they left. As for elmira lets throw in Ithaca because we did go pit elm ith and back....again full there's this university up there called cornell. As for making fun of accidents well most good pilots try to learn from others misfortunes or mistakes. And you probably really don't fly because you would know that it's the amount of revenue you make not your flight schedule that makes you a major.

Smart?

your= you're

do= due

 

[imacdog]

Wow for someone with 12000 hours your not too smart. Not surprising.

It never fails!

 

[Deadalus]

This thing is close to being over. All of us out east are captains, thats where we were in 2000 and thats where we deserve to be now, regardless of what a senile arbitrator says. You westies can't get it that we hold the keys out east- there isnt anything you can do except enjoy the ride! God I love seeing you all so angry and mad about what has happened. You deserve all of this! You made it! We out east are finishing it and enjoy watching yoru greed get the best of you.
East pilots have always been true major airline pilots, what can your clan say about your bottom feeder wagers and rag-tag flying circus from Phoenix???

What are you talking about? You're working under a contract that's worse than most commuters. I hate to break it to you but you idiots are being laughed at by everyone else in the industry. Now that I'm no longer tied off to you losers I'm laughing too.

 

[Deadalus]

This thing is close to being over. All of us out east are captains, thats where we were in 2000 and thats where we deserve to be now, regardless of what a senile arbitrator says. You westies can't get it that we hold the keys out east- there isnt anything you can do except enjoy the ride! God I love seeing you all so angry and mad about what has happened. You deserve all of this! You made it! We out east are finishing it and enjoy watching yoru greed get the best of you.
East pilots have always been true major airline pilots, what can your clan say about your bottom feeder wagers and rag-tag flying circus from Phoenix???

I can say the AWA contract is better than the AAA contract and AWA never killed anyone. Is that crickets I hear chirping? Dumb@ss

 

[waveflyer]

This thing is close to being over. All of us out east are captains, thats where we were in 2000 and thats where we deserve to be now, regardless of what a senile arbitrator says. You westies can't get it that we hold the keys out east- there isnt anything you can do except enjoy the ride! God I love seeing you all so angry and mad about what has happened. You deserve all of this! You made it! We out east are finishing it and enjoy watching yoru greed get the best of you.
East pilots have always been true major airline pilots, what can your clan say about your bottom feeder wagers and rag-tag flying circus from Phoenix???

This kind of ego oriented post is why the vast majority of this industry lacks respect for AAA and what they've been doing the past few years. It's just dumb and prideful. Newsflash: Pride doesn't pay the mortgage for yourselves or any one of us.

I said this back in 2007- AAA had a very small window to get out from their bankruptcy contract and improve industry standard. Now, being at swa- i get the desire to be independent-- but your problems weren't at ALPA national- they were clearly at your MEC- And you agreed to BINDING arbitration with AWA. You don't keep flying a contract that is bottom feeder wages and QOL b/c you don't like the decision of an arbitrator that you agreed to abide by.

That window for contract improvements that was available in 2007 has been closed for years with no end in sight, and you can say in the end that you helped keep down an industry that desperately needed to make gains.

The whole of airline pilots in this country have a very real beef with this type of mutiny.

 

[waveflyer]

I will say nothing but good things about Easties as people. It's this issue and it's net effect on the industry that i disagree with. It has simply been a tough career since the 90's for AAA, for very little fault of their own-- but again, your enemy has never been AWA- it has been your executives, and it has been your local MEC, and it has been your own lack of involvement in your union- that allowed 93 LOAs that decimated your contract and still didn't incite the revolution. I'll always be confused why the Nic award galvanized you- but the years of corruption in your own MEC did not.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Good...now we can try teamsters on for size

PHXFLYR

I really hope that was sarcasm........ (I'm guessing it was with the rolling eyes, but who knows these days.)

I still don't know why you guys (on the West) didn't settle this when you had the chance. When Judge Wake ruled in your favor on the DFR suit, you should have asked for no monetary damages (keep reading, it gets better, I promise). You could have just sought that he ban all the offenders (and anyone that had anything to do with USAPA's leadership decisions) from ever holding any position in USAPA again. Or, an even more aggressive step would have been for him to put USAPA into trusteeship (for breach of faith/ failure to represent) and put a bunch of you guys in charge. Best case, you could have gotten a contract (getting all of us furloughees back to work). Worst case, you could have played the USAPA game and "properly compensated" yourselves (like the leadership did...).

Obviously the above is slightly sarcastic (the part about compensating yourselves to make up for the lack of representation). But, I am serious in asking why AWAPPA/AOL/etc did not request Judge Wake to seize control of the union and come up with a mutually beneficial policy. That would seem to me to be a better solution than dissolving the union, forming a new one, and starting all over again. At least the infrastructure is already in place.

On a different note, I was talking to an East Captain in Madrid a couple of weeks ago -- and maybe there is some truth to the rumor that even the senior daddies are getting fed up with USAPA antics. This guy was a hard-core USAPA guy 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. Now even he is ready to admit it was an emotional mistake... So, maybe there is still hope.......

 

[becket]

This guy was a hard-core USAPA guy 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. Now even he is ready to admit it was an emotional mistake... .

Gee.. ya think?

 

[TWA Dude]

When Judge Wake ruled in your favor on the DFR suit, you should have asked for no monetary damages (keep reading, it gets better, I promise). You could have just sought that he ban all the offenders (and anyone that had anything to do with USAPA's leadership decisions) from ever holding any position in USAPA again.

I'm sure if we could've had the judge burn them at the stake we would've. Judge Wake was being very careful not to out-step his bounds. What you suggest was not realistic. Demanding unrealistic things is an East trait.

 

[reepicheep]

I will say nothing but good things about Easties as people. It's this issue and it's net effect on the industry that i disagree with. It has simply been a tough career since the 90's for AAA, for very little fault of their own-- but again, your enemy has never been AWA- it has been your executives, and it has been your local MEC, and it has been your own lack of involvement in your union- that allowed 93 LOAs that decimated your contract and still didn't incite the revolution. I'll always be confused why the Nic award galvanized you- but the years of corruption in your own MEC did not.

You would have thought, for example, that losing the pension would at least have garnered some kind of reaction. Instead Siegel got 'em to sign off on LOA-93, after the pension debacle.

I think the reason Nic finally did the job was it was so ugly and put it down on paper, quantified the futility of their career progression. If I was there I'd be livid too. To be told for all the world to see that your 17 years of service essentially merits new-hire seniority - one can understand the anger.

As you correctly point out though this was a usair problem. From 6000 pilots down to 3500 in 15 years. Integration was going to be ugly no matter who was involved.

 

[AnimalTale]

Straight from DP.Westies stealing East jobs and loving it. The greed is outrageous.
M

DP can suck my D! CK. That alcoholic, charlatan and greedy little ****************************** bag can have a bottle of "shut the hell up".

CYA

 

[JT12345]

I would hate to be in these flightdecks. You all should have lowered your expectations about your careers a long time ago anyway.

After 911 management dupped us with the help of federal government. They let airlines go bankrupt. Gave only 1.6 billion out of 10 billion in bailouts. Doesn't that seem really really small... 10 billion.... in hindsight compared to the last few years and what they did for the banks/investment firms like Goldman or AIG and GM.

You all got feked like the rest of us. You can let it hang over your head for the next 20 years or move on and look to other things in life to value. If you can't then go do something else. Life is too short.

P.S. I have been through multiple shutdowns, furloughs and displacements.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'm sure if we could've had the judge burn them at the stake we would've. Judge Wake was being very careful not to out-step his bounds. What you suggest was not realistic. Demanding unrealistic things is an East trait.

In fact the judge telegraphed enough of his displeasure that USAPA should have gotten the hint and offered to go work it out with the west pilots. But they didn't.

Instead they doubled down on the rhetoric and policies of disunity that are Cleary and Co's only hope to stay in power.

"Don't hate us, hate THEM!"

 

[captfred]

This kind of ego oriented post is why the vast majority of this industry lacks respect for AAA and what they've been doing the past few years. It's just dumb and prideful. Newsflash: Pride doesn't pay the mortgage for yourselves or any one of us.

I said this back in 2007- AAA had a very small window to get out from their bankruptcy contract and improve industry standard. Now, being at swa- i get the desire to be independent-- but your problems weren't at ALPA national- they were clearly at your MEC- And you agreed to BINDING arbitration with AWA. You don't keep flying a contract that is bottom feeder wages and QOL b/c you don't like the decision of an arbitrator that you agreed to abide by.

That window for contract improvements that was available in 2007 has been closed for years with no end in sight, and you can say in the end that you helped keep down an industry that desperately needed to make gains.

The whole of airline pilots in this country have a very real beef with this type of mutiny.

On target posting here. Obviously the UAL MEC feels the same way-they want no part of AAA.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

reading this thread makes me glad I chose CARGO!!!!!!!

 

[AnimalTale]

reading this thread makes me glad I chose CARGO!!!!!!!

For now be "glad" but You are not out of the woods either. With this unmanned UAV testing Fred Smith and UPS are funding/sponsoring and all these 3rd rate cargo carriers attacking your job with slave labor; you should really start fortifying your CASTLE with a HUGE MOAT before you start "gloating" about your choice...

We are all in deep doo doo, either now or later.. Its time to step it up!

CYA
VOTE ALPA or FAPA

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

For now be "glad" but You are not out of the woods either. With this unmanned UAV testing Fred Smith and UPS are funding/sponsoring and all these 3rd rate cargo carriers attacking your job with slave labor; you should really start fortifying your CASTLE with a HUGE MOAT before you start "gloating" about your choice...

We are all in deep doo doo, either now or later.. Its time to step it up!

CYA
VOTE ALPA or FAPA

3rd rate cargo carriers dont even try to compete any more...cant afford to compete!!!.....and by the time UAV flying takes over I'll be living on the beach....oh wait i already do!!!

 

[AnimalTale]

3rd rate cargo carriers dont even try to compete any more...cant afford to compete!!!.....and by the time UAV flying takes over I'll be living on the beach....oh wait i already do!!!

That's great... you got yours. Good choice for CARGO, then! Enjoy.

CYA

 

[Morgoth]

All of us out east are captains, thats where we were in 2000 and thats where we deserve to be now, regardless of what a senile arbitrator says.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't believe anyone had a gun to your head and forced you to accept binding arbitration. But you guys DID sign it, and then took your toys and went home when you didn't like the result.

 

[ultrarunner]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't believe anyone had a gun to your head and forced you to accept binding arbitration. But you guys DID sign it, and then took your toys and went home when you didn't like the result.

I always wondered about that myself...as big as those swollen balls were on those Easties...they decided to "agreee" to binding arbitration....doesn't make sense.....

And then they don't like the outcome.....

Poor guys...


In the end, the award will stand, and damages will be awarded. And then they will 'cry again' but it will be too late....

As far as my research has turned out, an award by a federal mediator has never been overturned. And it won't in this case. And if USAPA and their associated dickheads think this will go any further in the courts other than damages against them, then they are really idiots.....

Good riddance!

 

[BeCareful!]

Ahh, the could have been argument. This explains why every east pilot with a union position is referred to as Capt so and so when they are in fact FOs.

This is not true. S. Bradford, while now a capt., always went by F.O. Bradford while he was USAPA Pres.

You mean those pilots who were not on the active list? They were furloughees.

Even the list that the east MEC submitted to the arbitrator showed them as furloughed pilots.

Yes. And what a jack@$$ move that was, right? Has it dawned on you guys that we voted out ALPA precisely because of this kind of stupidity?
It's so easy to point the finger at an old, overripe ALPA unit like the AAA we-know-best, Give Away Gang and paint the whole group with that brush. ALPA had completely run away from its real responsibilities. That group of idiots was looking out only for their ALPA positions, nothing more. They were stupid from the word go, wouldn't listen, and the ALPA structure kept them in power long enough to do the damage they did.

WE SOLVED THAT PROBLEM!!!!!

All the things you guys blame east pilots for (binding is binding and all that) WAS ALPA's DOING. ALPA's FAULT.

But there ain't no ALPA here no more. EFF ALPA.

There seems to be some sort of disconnect of cause and effect for you guys, some sort of blind eye turned toward the fact that ALPA is gone. No one here cares what happened under ALPA because it was a negligent, asinine group of greedy, lazy political aholes who wanted to stay at resorts and do their little parliamentary procedures and stay off the line, off reserve, out of the skies. They crashed us! They're idiots! We RID OURSELVES OF THEM AS SOON AS WE COULD.

So, you can say "we" signed on for binding arbitration 'tll the cows come home, but it wasn't us at all. It was ALPA. And like so many people say here on the east when they hear that acronym, I say "who?"

 

[TWA Dude]

They crashed us! They're idiots! We RID OURSELVES OF THEM AS SOON AS WE COULD.

May the Westies be able to say the same thing about USAPA ASAP.

 

[Bad-Andy]

I'm sure if we could've had the judge burn them at the stake we would've. Judge Wake was being very careful not to out-step his bounds. What you suggest was not realistic. Demanding unrealistic things is an East trait.

Explain to me why this is an unrealistic goal? That would have been the best thing that Judge Wake could have done. And, it was well within his power. Yet no one requested it (at least not in the records/transcripts I read through). Nothing unrealistic about it. According to the Association for Union Democracy (watchdog group that works to prevent things like here),
"[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif]The elected leaders of local unions who are devoted to the labor movement and who are anxious to protect the interests of the their members face standard-cutting trade agreements imposed by international union officers without the opportunity for anyone to vote on them. And, when local officers resist, they find themselves removed from office and their locals under trusteeship. Alternatively, the international may simply merge the troublesome local into a "loyal’ one, or strip the locals of all authority and run the union through a regional body, like a district council."[/FONT]

So, they could have requested that. Now, as for making yourselves "whole," I was just kidding. But burning them at the stake... Is that still a legal form of execution anywhere? You gave me something to research on reserve tomorrow... :angryfire

 

[ableone]

This is not true. S. Bradford, while now a capt., always went by F.O. Bradford while he was USAPA Pres.

Captain Dave Ciabattoni recently filed a complaint against Captain Tracy Parrella.

They both happen to be First Officers and even USAPA's response states:

"Complainant Captain David Ciabattoni is a Philadelphia based B767 International First Officer."

Apparently everyone on the east side including the lead FA is addressed as "Captain."

Yes. And what a jack@$$ move that was, right? Has it dawned on you guys that we voted out ALPA precisely because of this kind of stupidity?

I can't help but notice that most of the despised ALPA guys are now running USAPA.

It's so easy to point the finger at an old, overripe ALPA unit like the AAA we-know-best, Give Away Gang and paint the whole group with that brush. ALPA had completely run away from its real responsibilities. That group of idiots was looking out only for their ALPA positions, nothing more. They were stupid from the word go, wouldn't listen, and the ALPA structure kept them in power long enough to do the damage they did.

WE SOLVED THAT PROBLEM!!!!!

"Blah, blah blah - evil ALPA international conspired against us! They were all against us!"

Just keep rolling those marbles in your hand Mr. Queeg.

The truth is that you acted and continue to act incompetently. Only the letterhead is different.

All the things you guys blame east pilots for (binding is binding and all that) WAS ALPA's DOING. ALPA's FAULT.

But there ain't no ALPA here no more. EFF ALPA.

More of the same.....

There seems to be some sort of disconnect of cause and effect for you guys, some sort of blind eye turned toward the fact that ALPA is gone. No one here cares what happened under ALPA because it was a negligent, asinine group of greedy, lazy political aholes who wanted to stay at resorts and do their little parliamentary procedures and stay off the line, off reserve, out of the skies. They crashed us! They're idiots! We RID OURSELVES OF THEM AS SOON AS WE COULD.

Yes you continue to believe that changing representation negates previous agreements - unless those previous agreements (alleged snapbacks etc.) benefit you. In that case they carry over. All very rational.

So, you can say "we" signed on for binding arbitration 'tll the cows come home, but it wasn't us at all. It was ALPA. And like so many people say here on the east when they hear that acronym, I say "who?"

Think again sparky.

 

[MCDU]

Ciabattoni is a Phl AB capt.

M

 

[ableone]

Ciabattoni is a Phl AB capt.

M

Not according to USAPA.

Grievance chair Capt. Tracy Parrella is also a First Officer as is Capt. Cleary.

BTW; Is that all you could come up with Marty? Pretty weak, though par for the course for your arguments.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Not according to USAPA.

Grievance chair Capt. Tracy Parrella is also a First Officer as is Capt. Cleary.

BTW; Is that all you could come up with Marty? Pretty weak, though par for the course for your arguments.

No, she's also got some of these greatest hits:
Check them out......She's one confused chick. Although, the cat seems to be out of the bag in regards to who she's sleeping with to get all her information------>First Officer David Ciabattoni :laugh:
Priceless doosh, priceless!

Marty claiming to have started at US Air in 1997

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848411


Marty saying he doesn’t work for US Air.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1195007]#post1195007


Marty claiming to be a UAL pilot.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345


Marty recently claiming not to work for Us Air.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1830329#post1830329

 

[becket]

So, you can say "we" signed on for binding arbitration 'tll the cows come home, but it wasn't us at all. It was ALPA.

The cows came home. USAPA is bound by everything ALPA was...including the nic. There was a lawsuit about that if you'll recall and USAPA got their asses handed to them. Don't you recall one of the newly elected USAPites exclaiming "everywhere in your contract where is says "ALPA"...it now says USAPA!!" Of course, he didn't mean the binding arbitration part, The Honorable Judge Neil M. Wake had to "FIX THAT PROBLEM" as you're fond of saying.

You guys have no where to go. No where to run. You're just delaying the inevitable and cutting your own financial throats while you do it. Check out the latest Leonidas update. There's an updated chart showing how much has been lost by ALL pilots for this fools errand of attempting Grand Larceny with a fake union. Those are big numbers and they'll never get any smaller. The guys like you that giddily cut off their nose to spite their faces are turning into a minority. I see the AFOC support eroding faster than a Malibu California Home site. This will all be over soon. Ready the CIRP team...if your fake union has such a thing...I don't really know.

 

[TWA Dude]

Explain to me why this is an unrealistic goal? That would have been the best thing that Judge Wake could have done.

I'm not a labor attorney but we hired some darned good ones. They knew what was likely and what wasn't.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I'm not a labor attorney but we hired some darned good ones. They knew what was likely and what wasn't.

So does that mean you guys are sending usapa your legal bills?
Please say it's so!