Ever get Turned or Slowed for The "Love Machine"?

[GuppyWN]

You guys are in total denial....Blame the landing plane???....SWA gets TIPH just because, and it's the rollout plane's fault?? I just want to make sure I have your argument straight Gup.....

The smart-a$$ radio call was truly a shining moment for you....(shaking head)

Bill,

Really? I know you and I like to banter but you can't win this one! :laugh: How could the SWA guys take off with Big Yo still on the runway? He cannot possibly clear you for takeoff until the arriving aircraft if clear of the hold short line and I've got a feeling that The Mother Ship didn't try too hard to help out. A good controller would say "SWA be ready and United minimum time on the runway please." I would be spooled and creeping when I heard "Southw......."

OldSchool, Sorry about that bro.

Gup

 

[100/hour/5y]

Well I'd prefer a nice medium rare ribeye from Eddy V's in Austin as well but I've been pleasantly surprised at the new menu choices on the 757 and 767 this year. And out in the Pacific on the 767-400 out of Guam and Japan, the menu is set for crews but always spicy and tasty. The Guam based FA's will cook and bring things to heat up on the NRT day trips. They always offer us their homeade treats on top of our crew meals. But I know, I'm just a lowly FO who doesn't make $200 and hour and doesn't get to enjoy power layovers of 12-16 hours where a mad dash to a steak place to throw my money around and suck a few drinks down before I bump up against the 8 hour rule.......my life sucks.....

CAL SUCKS!

We have about 15 FO's at cal in the pool that are ready to leave tomorrow...

 

[rajflyboy]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

I concur with you!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill,

Really? I know you and I like to banter but you can't win this one! :laugh: How could the SWA guys take off with Big Yo still on the runway? He cannot possibly clear you for takeoff until the arriving aircraft if clear of the hold short line and I've got a feeling that The Mother Ship didn't try too hard to help out. A good controller would say "SWA be ready and United minimum time on the runway please." I would be spooled and creeping when I heard "Southw......."

OldSchool, Sorry about that bro.

Gup

C'mon Gup!!! Again, blaming United....what's he to gain by rolling long?

A "GOOD FOR SOUTHWEST" controller would say SWA "Be ready...." completely outside of the pilot-controller glossary or ICAO standards for takeoff clearances. This same procedure increases the chances of landover incidents and the like all in the name of helping you expedite? Anybody who accepts a "squeeze play" just adds to the drop in Safety Margin.

My dog in this fight is at FLL in a full 767, the controller tried this and got burned. We went around, SWA was rolling, took off, we tried to deviate right to keep a visual with the deck angle at 20 degrees. SWA was told to maintain visual while we both got a TA/RA and the controller turned us due south at 600 feet....IMMEDIATE turn, while SWA gets a "contact Departure....Good Day!" Scary and the controllers fault but ENCOURAGED by guys like you ready to "spool em up".

 

[Quimby]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

Maybe they had a flow time to SFO/PHX/LAS.

 

[waveflyer]

There it is! Was just waiting for the safety card to be played.
Do you run from your own shadow too?

 

[StopNTSing]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

2) in LAS, we are next in line for takeoff, but we hear SWA cleared for takeoff from the number 2 spot. Then ATC asks us if we are on freq yet. I responded, "Yep, heard the 3 guys in front of us and the guy behind us cleared for takeoff".

Do you know what flow times are?

3) also in LAS, had SWA follow us from LAX the whole flight. We get to approach and we are extended on downwind to Hoover Dam while SWA is turned for base behind us.

That one might actually have some merit. Though as anyone who's flown through LAS in the last ten years will tell you, ATC has really dumbed-down the system and started doing some really strange things.

I'm all for SWA thumping us on tickets and their costs, but I draw the line at ATC favors. That should be an unbiased, level field.

See my earlier post on this thread.

 

[piav8r]

Lots of new controllers out there & many more to come in the next few years.

Are we sure they are experienced enough? Unless they've been graced by the almighty I'm not sure they are worthy enough to move on and be real live controllers!

<Lots of sarcasm>

 

[get2flyin]

LOL...yeah, I've gotten the "they have a flow time" BS from LAS, then we follow them to the SAME destination and they slow us down so we don't overtake them. I love that. Truthfully, the majority of it is our own fault. I've never seen them slow down intentionally to make a few extra dollars on an overblock. In fact it's usually the reverse. "South West, say speed", "Uh...we're slowing now".

 

[GuppyWN]

My all time favorite -

ATC: Southwest 1 say airspeed.
SWA1: Airspeed.
ATC: Say Holding
SWA1: 300 knots.

Everybody was having a good laugh at that one, including the controller. No harm no foul. Go hard go home. Repeat.

Gup

 

[slaquer5]

I Luv this topic. Too Bad it so long to to air out. I can cite 3 times we got slammed by ATC to help SWA out.

1) In ONT, rare east flow, was cleared for position and hold. Then out rolls SWA from the gate. They are cleared for takeoff from the intersection in front of us while we sit at the end of the runway. WTF?

.

I am throwing out the BS flag. SWA gates in ONT are right by the west runway not the east. I doubt you sat on the runway while SWA taxied for 2 miles to get to the east runway.

 

[bubbers44]

SWA probably has a good repore with ATC because they fly enough legs a day to know what ATC needs and makes tight approaches work. Sometimes the legacy airlines don't cooperate quite as well. SWA came to watch our west coast operation and we sometimes got special handling because ATC knew we would do what was required to make things work.

 

[get2flyin]

Southwest has pissed a couple of controllers off and paid the price for it. Last year a Southwest flight was taxiing toward the gate in Orange County when I called for a push and was cleared to do so. The ground controller then told the Southwest flight they would have to wait until we were clear to get to the gate. Hearing the exchange and realizing we would be pushing back directly behind their gate and blocking them, I offered the controller the hold our position until they parked. He told me that was not necessary and to "start the push back now"...and we blocked the Southwest that was about 3 gates away from their parking spot.

Also, one of my friends heard them pushing back and blocking the taxiway after they had been told to hold position at the gate in an attempted to beat the pack out from the morning curfew. When the ground controller realized it, he told them they hadn't been cleared and asked what they were doing. The SW crew laughed into the radio and said there had been a misunderstanding with the ground crew. The ground controller told them to pull back forward into the gate. SW said they had already disconnected. Ground said he could still see the tug in front of the plane and to have the groundcrew reconnect and pull them forward as they wouldn't be cleared to taxi until all of the other traffic had taxied out.

I would love to have seen the expressions on the flight crew. Usually when they pull that crap, they get away with it.

 

[Whataburger]

Southwest has pissed a couple of controllers off and paid the price for it. Last year a Southwest flight was taxiing toward the gate in Orange County when I called for a push and was cleared to do so. The ground controller then told the Southwest flight they would have to wait until we were clear to get to the gate. Hearing the exchange and realizing we would be pushing back directly behind their gate and blocking them, I offered the controller the hold our position until they parked. He told me that was not necessary and to "start the push back now"...and we blocked the Southwest that was about 3 gates away from their parking spot.

Also, one of my friends heard them pushing back and blocking the taxiway after they had been told to hold position at the gate in an attempted to beat the pack out from the morning curfew. When the ground controller realized it, he told them they hadn't been cleared and asked what they were doing. The SW crew laughed into the radio and said there had been a misunderstanding with the ground crew. The ground controller told them to pull back forward into the gate. SW said they had already disconnected. Ground said he could still see the tug in front of the plane and to have the groundcrew reconnect and pull them forward as they wouldn't be cleared to taxi until all of the other traffic had taxied out.

I would love to have seen the expressions on the flight crew. Usually when they pull that crap, they get away with it.

Man, that's so crazy!!

 

[get2flyin]

Man, that's so crazy!!

Again..this isn't a knock on Southwest. Pushing when your told not to is BS but I've seen other airlines do it. The bottom line is, every controller knows SW is always wanting to go fast. With other airlines it's a crapshoot. I was flying with a Captain who got cleared for the visual with speed at his discretion on a 20 mile straight-in and the D-bag immediately slowed to approach speed. He wanted me to tell the controllers he couldn't speed up because he was already configured and there were about 5 aircraft behind us (at least one of which was our company) doing MONSTER S-turns. 9 out of 10 guys would have hauled ass to the marker but this guy was just a jerk. I bet that controller NEVER offered our company a visual with speed at our discretion again. I get pissed when we get screwed so they can fit a couple of SW's in, but I understand why.

 

[rajflyboy]

SWA probably has a good repore with ATC because they fly enough legs a day to know what ATC needs and makes tight approaches work. Sometimes the legacy airlines don't cooperate quite as well. SWA came to watch our west coast operation and we sometimes got special handling because ATC knew we would do what was required to make things work.

No No No No No No No No No No No No No

SWA gets the "Special Treatment" because they meet with the controllers and bring them Donuts and Whiskey!

HE HE HE

 

[nerjdriver]

More often on final I get slowed to 180 for an RJ to get in front...then 170, then 160, then S turns because they can't fly as fast on final as a Dash 8.

But then again that's probably because we have some pilots who refuse to fly fast to help ATC.

RJ cant fly as fast as a Dash 8 on final?

Retard.

 

[BoilerUP]

RJ cant fly as fast as a Dash 8 on final?

No, an RJ cannot fly as fast as a Dash 8 can on final...or any turboprop for that matter.

You can easily run a t-prop at 180-200kts to a 2 mile final and still cross the threshold at Vref, thanks to those two massive speedbrakes known as props. Push them up and you can feel the plane decelerate.

I don't know any swept-wing jet that can keep that speed to that close in, including any RJ.

 

[ableone]

I am throwing out the BS flag. SWA gates in ONT are right by the west runway not the east. I doubt you sat on the runway while SWA taxied for 2 miles to get to the east runway.

The east and the west runway?

ONT 26L&R? Which one of these is the west runway?

Who are you really?

The WN gates are on the East end of the North runway. The only thing that they are west of is the freeway.

B.S. Flag returned to sender.

 

[slaquer5]

The east and the west runway?

ONT 26L&R? Which one of these is the west runway?

Who are you really?

The WN gates are on the East end of the North runway. The only thing that they are west of is the freeway.

B.S. Flag returned to sender.

What are you talking about? SWA gates are by the 26 runways. SO fast get out for RW 26. Your buddy said the rare East RW 8 departure. Please read before for open your trap.

I am thinking your are not very able ableone