Career Advice?

[satpak77]

The best time to buy is when everyone else is selling, the best to start an aviation career in when everyone says "Stay away". Check the posts from 2002, and if there was such a thing in 1992, 1982, 1974 you could check those also.

I am not sure I see your logic here. Unless of course it is "don't listen to everyone" (who by your statement such people are wrong in their advice) and instead listen to your own internal compass.

Mine (the hindsight-compass that is...) would have chosen a field that allowed aviation as a hobby versus as a career. I mean, its been fun, been there, done that, my pilot buddies are good guys, but in the next life? Nah.

But thats just me.

 

[pilotyip]

Logic - Aviation, in hte same sentence?

I am not sure I see your logic here.
But thats just me.

The logic is that in 2002, all the posts match what we see today, "Their will never be any hiring again", "Spending money on pilot training is a bad idea", and "Anyone who enters this career needs their head examined". Now comes 2004, the majors start recalling, opening pilot jobs at places like USA Jet, Kalitta, etc, who have vacancies due to pilots going back to DAL, NWA, etc. Pilots who remained current, got additional ratings and flight time now get jobs at places like ours. Now comes 2006 and 2007, those pilots hired by us in 2004 are getting jobs a DAL, NWA, Net Jets, Jet Blue and SWA. If you drop out of flying during the "Career is dead years" you are not ready for the first wave of the next hiring boom. In this business being first to get the seniority counts for a lot. BTW I predicted the 2007-hiring boom back in Sept of 2003, every one thought I was out of my mind. Now that may be true I am a pilot, but it does not effect a repeat of historic trends.

 

[satpak77]

The logic is that in 2002, all the posts match what we see today, "Their will never be any hiring again", "Spending money on pilot training is a bad idea", and "Anyone who enters this career needs their head examined". Now comes 2004, the majors start recalling, opening pilot jobs at places like USA Jet, Kalitta, etc, who have vacancies due to pilots going back to DAL, NWA, etc. Pilots who remained current, got additional ratings and flight time now get jobs at places like ours. Now comes 2006 and 2007, those pilots hired by us in 2004 are getting jobs a DAL, NWA, Net Jets, Jet Blue and SWA. If you drop out of flying during the "Career is dead years" you are not ready for the first wave of the next hiring boom. In this business being first to get the seniority counts for a lot. BTW I predicted the 2007-hiring boom back in Sept of 2003, every one thought I was out of my mind. Now that may be true I am a pilot, but it does not effect a repeat of historic trends.

Maybe a more logical take-from this that an aviation job is unstable and has severe good times and severe bad times.

 

[ualdriver]

The logic is that in 2002, all the posts match what we see today, "Their will never be any hiring again", "Spending money on pilot training is a bad idea", and "Anyone who enters this career needs their head examined". Now comes 2004, the majors start recalling, opening pilot jobs at places like USA Jet, Kalitta, etc, who have vacancies due to pilots going back to DAL, NWA, etc. Pilots who remained current, got additional ratings and flight time now get jobs at places like ours. Now comes 2006 and 2007, those pilots hired by us in 2004 are getting jobs a DAL, NWA, Net Jets, Jet Blue and SWA. If you drop out of flying during the "Career is dead years" you are not ready for the first wave of the next hiring boom. In this business being first to get the seniority counts for a lot. BTW I predicted the 2007-hiring boom back in Sept of 2003, every one thought I was out of my mind. Now that may be true I am a pilot, but it does not effect a repeat of historic trends.

Yip-

I don't think anyone can honestly say that there will never be any hiring again. But like the poster above me wrote, there are severe swings in this highly cyclical industry, and the OP should understand that.

Look at the OP. He's 33, probably has a solid decade in the IT world, and must be at least a decent IT guy or he likely wouldn't hold a job that pays 6 figures. Likely in his profession, he could normally leave his job and go somewhere else and expect to make something resembling what he makes now. The "normal-ness" of being able to do that in just about every other profession EXCEPT the pilot profession for us would be considered a "hiring boom." For him, that's just "normal."

So to imply to this guy that there is going to be some sort of hiring boom in a few years, without also explaining what a "hiring boom" is in aviation vs a "hiring boom" in his profession isn't giving the complete picture. Further, even if there was a boom in 2012, 2011, 2013, whatever, it is likely that many who would enjoy such a boom could be back on the streets on the following down cycle just like the last cycle in 2007. The streets of Anyairport, USA, is littered with the bodies of the "Great Boom of 2007." I think that's a pretty important piece of information that you need to include if you're going give people hopes of some sort of upcoming "boom" in this industry.

Further, the PERPETUAL OVERSUPPLY of pilots that exists in this industry, whether we're booming or busting, makes it extremely difficult to earn a living as a professional pilot. Pilots constantly undercut each other and management teams take advantage of the perpetual oversupply, which has a tendency to drive down average wages, especially for lower tier jobs. That's another thing the OP needs to understand, which is completely different than his world.

 

[pilotyip]

ditto

Maybe a more logical take-from this that an aviation job is unstable and has severe good times and severe bad times.

and timing and seniority are everything, be in front when hiring starts makes hte career much better, of course you have to pick the right airline

 

[satpak77]

and timing and seniority are everything, be in front when hiring starts makes hte career much better, of course you have to pick the right airline

yes like Pan Am, TWA, Braniff, Eastern

remember, get that seniority started.

 

[pilotyip]

good guessing also

yes like Pan Am, TWA, Braniff, Eastern

remember, get that seniority started.

Combined with foresight that the airline you pick will not go out of business or donwsize. Remember the guys who jumped from SWA, FedEx, etc to get the great jobs at UAL, AAL, and DAL back in 2000 and 2001.

 

[retired guy]

Go take a really cold shower.....

 

[acaTerry]

Keep your IT job. Buy a plane of your own and fly for YOU. That will keep flying enjoyable.

 

[SWA GUY]

Who the heck wanted to work for Southwest 20 years ago? Now they have thousands of applicants to fly domestic short haul in a 737.

Well....I guess I would have loved to fly for the Luvline 20 years ago. I've only been at SWA for 10 years.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Lstorm2003, if you're clearing $100k, I'd ask myself why I'm so miserable in IT. I was once in your position. I hated my IT job. My manager was a dumb ****************************** who thought our network would run faster if we installed two flux capacitors and signed the purchase order for it. Sure the network guys and I laughed ourselves to the point of insubordination but dumb is dumb and working under those conditions were just horrendous. Long story short, I spent a crap load of money because some flight school told me all I need to do is give them the money and they'll give me the interviews. Not the jobs, just interviews. And I was fine with it but only found out after the money has been exchanged that they had no guaranteed interviews and it was just one big lie. Anyway, your situation is different. You already have the certificates and ratings, and I'm assuming you don't carry any debt from an expensive flight school like I do.

Well, at the time, everyone told me there was this huge demand for pilots. The flight school even boasted about how if I passed their program, there is no reason why any regional airline wouldn't hire me. Okay, whatever. The take away is this. There are going to be people telling you that if you just follow your dreams and keep at it, you'll get it. And I agree. How much you sacrifice and what kind of shape you are when you get there and living that dream is something else. Do the research on just how much money you'll make year over year at a regional airline for the next 5 to 10 years as a first officer.

This isn't a job that you're going to rely on with any level of stability. There are a lot of resources in this thread alone that you should inspect carefully with an objective eye. If you have no idea how seniority works, you have no business considering this career path. Guys like you and me, we can walk out on our jobs in IT and find another one that pays equal or more. Not with the airlines. If you decide to bolt after 2 years because the airline of your choice sucks or you hate the work rules or the life style or they go bankrupt or furlough you, and you pick yourself up and dust yourself off with another regional airline, guess what? You are at YEAR ONE pay again. Enjoy that!

The only advice I can offer you is to do a lot of research and talk to as many people as you can. Skip those who predicts the future. No one knows when the next hiring boom is going to be, if there will be one. Do it because you decided that its a game you want to try to get into and be okay with it if you walk away with a few broken bones. I'd consider the pilot career like walking into your first octagon fight with Royce Gracie. You might win, or you might die. Do it because you've assessed the risks and that it is acceptable to you. The rest will be your story to tell the kids whether or not you make it. Just don't be stupid and buy any of these "hiring boom" crap. At the end of the day, you'll submit your resume and application, and they'll either hire you, or not. And you'll either try again, or not. It's as simple as that.

Anyway, to wrap it up, my IT job is now paying my flight school debt, hopefully I'll be able to keep it for another 13 years to pay this off. Then I can save and maybe buy a house after that! And I fell into an awesome IT job. Perhaps you just need a change of scenery rather than jump off the IT wagon. With your flying experience, you can easily buy yourself an airplane, flight instruct, etc. to keep flying fun.

Research the industry, career, and put together some spreadsheets. Good luck!

 

[pilotyip]

2012

No one knows when the next hiring boom is going to be, if there will be one. Good luck!

good chance we will see a surge of hiring in 2012, it is already starting only to be compounded by a growing economy and approaching age 45 retirements.

 

[satpak77]

good chance we will see a surge of hiring in 2012, it is already starting only to be compounded by a growing economy and approaching age 45 retirements.

How do the 300 furloughs from UPS, 175 from AA, and 495 from NetJets (or almost 1000 pilots who had the mins to get hired in the first place at, well, UPS, AA, NJA) factor in to this?

Plus XXX from US Air/America West, UAL, Frontier, etc that are on the street. XXXX already on street from AA. Etc.

Where is this surge going to happen? Because in 2012 it wont be at UPS, nor AA, nor UAL. No "surge" at SWA either. None at NetJets. So, I just named a bunch of very respectable major companies, from a pilot-career standpoint. Ford, GM Corporate? Closed/shut down/slashed in size. Etc etc

At that RJ company? "Move up to a major?" That RJ has REPLACED that Boeing on that route, or maybe 3 RJ's have replaced it. There is no place to go to from a regional/commuter anymore (in reality).

Similar to a employed burger cook at Burger King being counted in the employment stats? "Record employment !" "Job Growth !" etc ad nauseum

Good luck with the "surge"....

Long live Kit Darby baby

 

[LR25]

Entering a pilot career in todays environment is highly not recommended. Keep your current job and fly for fun.

Read the above post carefully.

Then read it again, carefully.

Print this post in size 20 font in bold letters, and tape it to your cabinet you get your coffee out of every morning while your getting ready for work.

 

[LegacyDriver]

close your account at this site, then RUN back to your IT job.

with 100k per year you can go rent a plane and fly whenever you want.

Agreed.

Bank the money and buy a Tomahawk or something cheap and buzz around for fun...

Either that or save about $400K before you start your career so you have something to get you by as an F/O and the half dozen furloughs that are in your future in aviation.

 

[Bank-n-Yank]

Since it seems like this guy will have to take at least a $70,000 paycut for the privilege of being an FO at a crappy regional airline, why not stay at that IT job and use the $70,000 extra to do cool things like get checked out in that P-51 in Florida, or a DC-3 type in Santa Monica, fly Connies and B-25's to airshows, or go fly a MiG or something. That's flying, not being strip searched at TSA checkpoints, eating Panda Express, and staying at the Ramada.

BAM !! Now we're talking. Go this route and don't look back !!

Plus, add some fun ratings to your cert & quality experience to your logbook; ASES, Glider, Acro. Join a local soaring club, get checked out in a Pitts, rent a Cub on straight-floats, share the expenses with a buddy & fly into Oshkosh.

 

[ksu_aviator]

48% unemployment among pilots.

Enough said.

 

[LegacyDriver]

48% unemployment among pilots.

Enough said.

Are you serious??????????????? Is that a real stat?????????????

Goodness. The saddest part is I'm shocked not that it is that high but that it is that low.

 

[BenWA]

Since it seems like this guy will have to take at least a $70,000 paycut for the privilege of being an FO at a crappy regional airline, why not stay at that IT job and use the $70,000 extra to do cool things like get checked out in that P-51 in Florida, or a DC-3 type in Santa Monica, fly Connies and B-25's to airshows, or go fly a MiG or something. That's flying, not being strip searched at TSA checkpoints, eating Panda Express, and staying at the Ramada.

Exactly.

If you are willing to lower your living standard from where you are now to flying for $17K per year, then just keep your IT job and lower your living standard to the $17K level and use the extra savings to do something that the RJ drivers (whether they be employed, furloughed, or otherwise) can only daydream about.

You can even put on a crisp white shirt, tie, and epaulets, if it would make you feel more like a professional. Nobody will know the difference.

 

[lowspeed]

Run away very very fast!!!!!!!!!! or if you must get an aviation fix maybe look into trying to find a job with a company that needs an IT guy and a part time pilot. Might be hard to find but compaines love getting two positions filled for the price of one.