Career Advice?

[lstorm2003]

Hi I'm just writing in to get some honest advice. I'm 33, a college graduate working in the IT field today making around $100k/year.

Been flying since 2000, and just recently completed my Commercial Multi Instrument rating.. I have about 750 hours and have been recently seriously thinking about a career change. I am just so sick of the IT field I can't stand it anymore and aviation has always been my dream.

I figure I have a head start on a lot of guys who decide to change careers at my age since I already have a few ratings under my belt. What do you think would be the best route for me to go at this point? I actually used to know a guy who had a 135 operation, and I was trying to find him to see if he can put me on flying charter, but I doubt I meet the requirements for it yet. I only have about 50 hours multi time.

So at this point what should I do? Should I take some time off work and just go get my CFI-CFII ? Or do you think its possible to just jump right in and start flying charters or something similar to that right now?

I don't really have a big interest in teaching, I just feel like I've already done everything with a 172 that I care to do, I want to move onto something else, and if I teach I'll just be in the right seat of a 172 for the next.. well.. how long do you think it would be before something better came along? Its not that I would mind teaching for awhile, I love aviation, and that would keep me close to what I love to do.. But I just wonder how long I would have to do that for until I could get a better job...

And how much would I get paid now? I heard that the pay has come up a bit for CFIs over the past few years.. Is that really true? Would I be better off at a part 61 or a 141 school? I wonder if I did my training for CFI at a flight school, would they make an agreement to hire me afterwards? Do flight schools generally do that sort of thing ever?

Comments? Oh and btw I'm in Fort Lauderdale, FL...

 

[rumrnr78]

Your in a tough spot cause there maybe some Colgan blowback in hiring at the regionals. 495 highly qualified pilots from NetJets just hit the street with AMR to follow.
If your making 6 figures in this economy I hope your praying and thanking the God of your choice. It's great that you have a passion for flying. And, I would encourage you to pursue your dreams. Understand that after you land your first gig you have about a 25% chance of breaking 50k in 10 years- before taxes!
Making that kind of coin I recommend a part time flying job to get your fix. I know too many pilots in there 40's unemployed, or making less than their age.

All the best-

 

[avbug]

Prepare to go from making a hundred thousand a year to fifteen thousand a year. (Are you prepared for that)?

At 750 hours, you're just 450 hours shy of meeting the minimums to fly passengers under IFR...and most charter will require you to have that capability.

While you may think you've done everything you need to do in a 172...you may not know as much, or have learned as much as you think you have. Frequently posters will enter here, or other boards, proclaiming that instruction is beneath them...they sometimes couch it in different terms, but it's always the same sentiment. Don't really want to instruct, headed for the bright lights. None ever seem to realize that no matter how great they think their resume might be, no matter what they think they have learned, instructing is still a step UP for them. You, too.

At 750 hours, you've got just enough experience at this stage to begin to understand how to open the aircraft door. Now is a good time to get your foot in that door, because you've got a long way to go. Don't lose sight of that important fact.

 

[brokeflyer]

close your account at this site, then RUN back to your IT job.

with 100k per year you can go rent a plane and fly whenever you want.

 

[pilotyip]

Find a CFI job on the side, save every dine you have coming in from your IT job. Live like you make $15K/yr, then when the 2012 hiring boom hits you will be in a good place to make the jump into the secuirty of a real flying job.

 

[GogglesPisano]

And don't listen to Yip. :laugh:

 

[J.Otto]

watch this video a few times and look carefully at what life will be like. you'll know the answer.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

ask yourself if this is what you want to trade down to.

 

[ualdriver]

Comments? Oh and btw I'm in Fort Lauderdale, FL...

When I hit the "new posts" button and saw this thread, I thought it might be a joke. Maybe it is, don't know.

A few points:

1) Read this entire site. Will probably take you 20 minutes
http://thetruthabouttheprofession.weebly.com/index.html

2) If you're not willing to flight instruct, you're likely to have a hard time gaining the needed flight time to get a charter or regional job. The pilot is market is absolutely flooded with guys with 1000's of hours. Unless you "know someone," it's unlikely you would be hired over this huge pool of experienced pilots for anything except flight instructing when the hiring does start because everyone will be more qualified than you. I'd suggest you get your CFII. The fact that $20,000/year jobs are fiercely pursued by highly experienced pilots with years in the business, even during "good times" should say something to you, by the way.

3) You said that you can't stand the IT field anymore. It is likely you're going to feel that way about being a flight instructor, regional airline first officer, and/or charter pilot at some point, especially if the hiring environment doesn't improve for a while. Imagine not being able to stand flight instructing anymore, but instead of making 100K/year, you'll be making 20K/year to 30K/year. If that.

4) If you do make the jump, I'd make sure you keep those "perishable" IT skills fresh. It's likely that if you do make the jump to aviation that you will be furloughed at some point. It will be nice to have those IT skills to fall back on when/if it happens.

5) If flying is your dream, and you go in eyes wide open, I say go for it while you can. You can always go back to IT, right?

Find a CFI job on the side, save every dine you have coming in from your IT job. Live like you make $15K/yr, then when the 2012 hiring boom hits you will be in a good place to make the jump into the secuirty of a real flying job.

Yip-

I really think you're doing a new guy a disservice by telling him there is going to be a hiring boom in 2012 as if it is some sort of fact.

Istorm, the only thing that is happening in the end of 2012 (December) is that the first of the airline pilots who benefited by a change in retirement age from age 60 to age 65 will start to retire. Before this rule came into play, you had to retire as an airline pilot at 60. The mere fact that retirements will start again does not mean there will be a hiring boom. There was a huge oversupply of pilots when pilots were retiring at age 60 for over 2 decades at least. The fact that retirements will start again in 2012 isn't likely to change much except perhaps instead of their being a "huge" oversupply of pilots, we might go to just a mere "large" oversupply of pilots in the business.

Further, if you're going to say that Yip could be right, you could also say that the guys that get hired during this "2012 hiring boom" will be the same ones getting furloughed in the 2014 recession.

 

[kf4amu]

Find a CFI job on the side, save every dine you have coming in from your IT job. Live like you make $15K/yr, then when the 2012 hiring boom hits you will be in a good place to make the jump into the secuirty of a real flying job.

After being in the industry almost 3 years, I wish I had done what this poster said. I would have started my own business and made flying a hobby. Once my savings, investments and businesses supported a flying lifestyle, I would have switched.

At 100k a year, you should already have significant IRA, 401k, and savings balances. If not, you are definitely not ready to be a pilot.

If you do, I would wait one more year while saving HALF your take home pay, reducing monthly expenses as much as possible (paying off the car, not eating out as much etc), and then see who's hiring.

Do NOT take the first job you get...it will most likely be Colgan, Republic, or Mesa and they will steal your passion for flying.

That's all the advice I have...I'm sorry it's mostly negative.

 

[avbug]

After being in the industry almost 3 years,...

Wow. Three whole years.

Do NOT take the first job you get...it will most likely be Colgan, Republic, or Mesa and they will steal your passion for flying.

Spoken like one who signed on as a 300 hour wonder...and after a few hours, was left wondering.

The only thing that can "steal" your "passion for flying" is YOU.

If you think flying for a regional is tough work or depressing, you've lived a very, very sheltered life, especially in this industry. You ain't seen nothing yet, mate.

Once you've been through a couple of economic cycles in this industry, then come back and revisit your thoughts. Who is successful in this industry? The ones who stick it out. Passion in one's career is a personal choice, and not one that's wrested from you.

If you find that flying an RJ or a Boeing, or a Lockheed or a Dassault isn't doing it for you any more, then go find something that does do it for you. Go fly a helicopter. Go back and fly a light airplane. Revisit your roots. Teach. Head up a cadet program. Do Boy Scout aviation merit badges. Build an airplane. If you're losing your shine, then get out the polish and go to work. Nobody is going to do it for you.

 

[JAFI]

Avbug, now he does have 250 hours and three years experience.......

At least he qualified his response.

To the OP - if you are now making 100K a year and money is important to your family and lifestyle, I would estimate it will take you twenty plus years to recoup the money you will lose by going for a flying career now. Results will vary person to person.

I have been in the industry for 30-ish years and been through a handfull of failed companies and bounced checks. Others have been through more or less. Sometimes it comes down to do you want to:

Fly to live or live to fly???

 

[pilotyip]

Like to fly?

Hey if you like to fly, there is no better career. I got out for five years, ran a 3.5M company with 22 employees, left to go back to full time aviation job, no regrets. Still livin the dream of a five year old.

 

[satpak77]

Entering a pilot career in todays environment is highly not recommended. Keep your current job and fly for fun.

 

[pilotyip]

follow the herd?

Entering a pilot career in todays environment is highly not recommended. Keep your current job and fly for fun.

The best time to buy is when everyone else is selling, the best to start an aviation career in when everyone says "Stay away". Check the posts from 2002, and if there was such a thing in 1992, 1982, 1974 you could check those also.

 

[AirCobra]

Since it seems like this guy will have to take at least a $70,000 paycut for the privilege of being an FO at a crappy regional airline, why not stay at that IT job and use the $70,000 extra to do cool things like get checked out in that P-51 in Florida, or a DC-3 type in Santa Monica, fly Connies and B-25's to airshows, or go fly a MiG or something. That's flying, not being strip searched at TSA checkpoints, eating Panda Express, and staying at the Ramada.

 

[bizicmo]

The best time to buy is when everyone else is selling, the best to start an aviation career in when everyone says "Stay away". Check the posts from 2002, and if there was such a thing in 1992, 1982, 1974 you could check those also.

That is not necessarily the best advice. You have to look at the reason why everyone is selling and whether or not that asset, long term, can regain it's value or to a value at or above where you bought into it.

 

[AirCobra]

The best time to buy is when everyone else is selling, the best to start an aviation career in when everyone says "Stay away". Check the posts from 2002, and if there was such a thing in 1992, 1982, 1974 you could check those also.

I love you man but I couldn't disagree more. The airline part of the industry is nothing like it was back then. I remember in the 1980's you needed 4,000 hours to get on with Air Wisconsin. Last time they were hiring they would take guys with 250 hours and pay them half as much as they used to. The future belongs to the regionals meaning many fewer better paying airline jobs. Who the heck wanted to work for Southwest 20 years ago? Now they have thousands of applicants to fly domestic short haul in a 737. Former Holy Grails like FedEx are even suffering through lousy schedules and pay reductions. Most regional guys would still jump at the chance to fly for FedEx, only to find out they better like being an FE making $50,000 a year. The core of the industry has completlely changed so I don't know if young folks will have the opportunity for growth and progression like you or I did. I would say if you want to fly I would say go military and stay there, otherwise find a better career and fly on the side.

 

[pilotyip]

why selling?

That is not necessarily the best advice. You have to look at the reason why everyone is selling and whether or not that asset, long term, can regain it's value or to a value at or above where you bought into it.

They sell because they are not sure of whats going on. They listen to the so called experts then they run with the herd. Experience teaches that the experts are not always the best source of information. So much like buying stocks, the experts on this board giving advice about an aviation career may not always have the final answer.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Follow your heart. Don't listen to anything/anyone else. It's the only way you'll know if you made the right choice. These guys might as well be telling you what lottery numbers to pick.

Virtual/hypothetical reality is just that.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I found this to be a pretty good post somewhat related to your question or future.

Give it a good read:

Well, your original question was regarding pilots who has migrated from the regionals to other flying adventures... I'll bite. Here's my experience; draw from it what you will...

I always wanted to be an airline guy- I grew up around it- my father and grandfather had flown professionally. I grew up hanging on the airport fence. At age 12 I decided it was what I would do with my life. By 18 I had done my Commercial, Multi, Instrument and CFI. In college I had my own contracting company going and was content earning my CFII and MEI for college credit when luckily, my own experience in professional flying started in college when I became affiliated with a large corporation just as they were considering starting their own flight department. I was "in the right place at the right time" and rode the wave up making good money (45,000ish) while I was going to school and got my ATP and two type ratings out of the deal. We had a three man flight department that allowed me a lot of opportunity to still attend classes during my senior year. But I had always wanted to do scheduled airline flying.. some friends of mine were flying at Chautauqua (this was in 2004) and they encouraged me to turn my stuff in. I did and a few months later got an interview and was placed in the hiring pool... a few months after that I was invited for a class date and so I decided to leave both college and the corporate flying job in favor of -121 flying. That's right- I left a great job and a great education chasing the airline flying life.

I enjoyed the flying and the people I worked with at Chautauqua- it was a wonderful experience. But I missed the pay and QOL I had enjoyed flying in the corporate world. I was sitting on the Republic seniority list in mid-2005 thinking it was purgatory. I didn't see the truth, which was that I was actually pretty lucky and that there were thousands of other pilots trying to get where I was. When I saw a CE-650 taxi by us on the ramp I'd get frustrated thinking that I was typed and had a few hundred hours of PIC in that airplane and COULD be making 70-80k flying that airplane only 200-300 flight hours per year, staying in nice hotels, eating out on the company dime, etc... I also missed the opportunity to fly as PIC and not have to occasionally play "mother may I" with some of the worse Captains out there. But flying at Chautauqua was a lot of fun, I flew my legs and had fun on our overnights. Most of the people I flew with were great pilots and avid professionals. I tried to stay positive about my earning and QOL potential... but commuting on UPS all-night, barely making my bills, working 5 day trips for 20 hours credit and other things really began to burn me out. How can you be positive when PBS keeps putting your bids into denial mode? I digress...

By mid 2007 I could have upgraded to the CRJ fleet but stayed as an FO because I was a commuter and wanted the schedule. I was waiting for a PIC slot on the E-170 fleet in my home-town. When that initial vacancy for that base/seat was awarded, guys that has been with Republic for 6-7 years were too junior to get in on it. It made me really think that I'd have to be at Chautauqua another 4-5 years to make the E170 CA position in my home-town... a dismal thought. Then I got a phone call one day while laying over in Texas.

I got an offer from a charter company in my hometown to interview for a Captain position flying the CE-650. I interviewed and was offered a job starting in the 80k range. Although I wanted to stay in the -121 world and around the -121 environment, I couldn't pass up the opportunity to jump-ahead 5-6 years in relative pay. Not to mention that there would be no more commuting, benefits were going to be significantly better, etc. I made the decision to fly out the remainder of my monthly schedule and then resigned from Republic. This was July 2007. At the time I was #6 F/O in STL out of about 75 First Officers.

At the charter company I immediately liked the pay and benefits. I paid off all my bills, put some money away and started feeling better about my life. The benefits also gave me some piece-of-mind. But the schedule was only marginally improved. Although I didn't have to commute and spend 2 nights away from home in a crash-pad or on my own dime to make 6am reports or midnight block-ins; I did have to answer my phone 16 hours a day "on-call" and pop-up trips were frequent. Out to dinner with the girlfriend? too bad- you've got to come in for an undefined trip. Have plans tomorrow? Oh too bad there too. "get out here as quick as you can for a pop-up trip to Guatemala". No preparation, no packing, no ability to modify your schedule. When they called you had to answer and when they said jump-you asked "how high". A totally different dynamic from the determined schedule and work-rules of the -121 world.

It wasn't much later that they pulled a fast-one on me by displacing me to different equipment.. still as a Captain- still making the same money- but to an airplane I had little to no interest in flying. Again, the people I worked with and flew with were all fun, interesting and avid professionals. We still flew 50-60 hours a month on average (not all that different) and were gone away from home 8-10 nights a month (quite a bit better).

Eventually though- without warning- the charter market took a dive and the charter company one day called me into the office for a meeting. Here I was the lead Captain on the airplane, flying 12-15 days per month and 50-60 hours per month. I felt extremely secure. We were the busiest airplane in the fleet and I was the guy in charge of the airplane on the certificate. But in that meeting they informed me that they were going to have me laid-off because they had lost other aircraft in the fleet and had to find a place for their more senior staff. (i understood the seniority argument). I reluctantly now found myself on the street with no recourse. (couldnt have happened at an airline- they would have had to furlough everyone below me FIRST). But without a union or a contract companies are free to do whatever they need to do without constraint. Whatever their reasoning...

I was sitting on top of several years of -121 and -135 experience, solid flight time, several types and some money in the bank. I felt relatively secure and thought my prospects were good... that was October 2008.

Now here we are in February 2010. The only (professional) flying I've done since my lay-off has been a three month gig with an operator in South Florida. It didn't pan out... after making me pay for my own recurrent (should have never done it), paying all of the companies expenses on my own credit card (don't ever do it) and spending months of my own personal time (trust me- be selfish with your time) they ended up p*ssing off the aircraft owner and the owner instead broke their management agreement with the charter company and sold their jet. It put me back on the street and in an even worse financial position- but I was current/qualified for PIC in the -135 world again. (That doesnt mean D*CK!) Not to mention I had no recourse with these people (who also refused to pay me as agreed) because they threatened to bad-mouth me to any future operator (not good) or hinted at having worse done to me. <gulp!>

Now here is what I've got to show for my jump to where the "grass was greener". I'm absolutely bankrupt, I've lost all my investments, my car, my house, my credit is wrecked and the costs of all the associated hardships is incalculable. There is no outlook for positive recovery anytime soon... I've struggled with significant damage to my self-image and self-worth. I always thought it would be fun to be furloughed/laid-off with recall rights- able to just have 100% time-off for a few years. Reality is a much more sobering situation than what I always dreamed it would be like to be "on the street". I know I am not alone however, and that I am not suffering my fate alone. Thousands of our brother/sister pilots are facing the same -or worse- hardships at the same time. Some find other outlets of their time and are able to lead productive and successful times away from the cockpit- but for those of us who truly belong in the cockpit; no amount of success in sales, professional endeavors or "desk jockey" jobs will suffice.

However, if I had stayed at Republic my seniority would now hold a 17 day ON, 80 hour a month schedule as captain on the e170 in my hometown. I'd be relatively secure, probably financially sound and have good free time and a sense of solid self worth and accomplishment.

My suggestion? Look around you. In this environment don't even attempt a move to another airline or -135/corporate. It is very volatile in this industry now (and always), the smart move is to dig-in and be vigilant to protect what you DO have. I am lucky in that I am still single and do not have to carry the additional burdens of a family and children through this uncertain and trying time of unemployment. I imagine that for those in that situation, the decision to leave aviation behind for good is a much clearer one.

I for one am still hopeful- and if I had the chance today- I'd gladly start somewhere, anywhere at the bottom of the -121 world. Just my .02

I'm not sure if you have the appreciation for what you've built in aviation. I just started another of my own businesses, begrudgingly, and am having to completely renew my development of knowledge in another industry, seek its accreditation and its licenses, build my list of contacts and network within that industry, etc. It's a daunting task and one that is easier said than done!

Alright- flame away!