The actual ASA PBS LOA is out.

[OCP]

Now what do you think?

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Read over the entire document and write some questions down. This is something every ASA pilot should read in its entirety before casting a vote. I suspect they're going to be short on paper in the crew lounge from the pilots who print this off there...

 

[Poppa Hodax]

The Good, The Bad, The Unaddressed

I have read through the LOA a couple of times. I am not a lawyer, nor do I have experience in negotiating airline labor contracts. These are just the things that I noticed upon my initial review.

The Good

• Minimum day value increased to 3.86
• No fly list
• Trips will be front loaded
• Future open time swaps are instant
• Ability to drop/pick up portions of a trip
• Ready reserve trips outside the ready reserve period must depart within an hour
• Reserve pilots don't have to accept a trip that results in being away from domicile for more than four days, unless being released would cause a trip cancellation or a line holder being junior assigned.
• 401k plan will be able to deal in publicly traded stocks

The Bad

• No pay increase. I must be missing something here, but the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the PBS LOA are exactly the same as the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the current contract. As I read this, accepting PBS will result in pay rates that the pilot group has already negotiated in the existing contract, and no pay increase.
• Negotiation is delayed for a year.
• Furloughs are terminated after they have been on furlough for five years.
• No language to prevent or minimize the assignment of trips on either side of vacation. This, in effect, prevents turning one week of vacation into three, or at least dropping conflicting trips.
• Ready Reserve can start at 0400. Considering that the latest bus to ensure a timely reporting for duty leaves at 0320, 0400 Ready Reserves work for free for a while in order to be on time.
• The company "will consider" quality of life issues when constructing trips. There is no language that binds them to anything other than considering QOL issues.
• The Company will, to the extent "reasonably practical", construct trips in accordance with some listed parameters. This language isn't specific, and provides nothing for Union approval of what is reasonably practical.
• Trips will be constructed to maintain a mix of trips, with no language provided with regard to the mix other than no more than 60% will be four days.
• The Company can award a pilot a reserve line (even if they can hold a regular line) despite open time remaining, if they deem a need for additional reserve staffing. The LOA contains neither language on what constitutes a valid need for additional reserve staffing, nor Union approval/validation of this need for reserve staffing.
• No fly list is only for First Officers. Captains, if you don't like a particular FO, you have no ability to avoid flying with that FO.
• Pilots are specifically forbidden from swapping, dropping, or trading a trip if it will take the pilot below 45 hours for the month.
• There will be at least one reserve line for every eight regular lines. This is a minimum. There is no language with regard to a maximum number of reserve lines. By the language in the LOA, the Company could build 8 regular lines and the rest reserve lines, and that bid package would be legal.
• The Company specifically reserves the right to assign training to reset a due month. Thus, the Company can arbitrarily assign a pilot a PC every month, obstensibly to reset the due month.
• The Company can assign a Reserve Line to a pilot upon completion of training. The LOA mentions trying to build a regular line, but the Company can assign a Reserve Line.
• Twelve pilots get a paid month off to teach the pilots how to use PBS.

The Unaddressed

• No holiday pay
• No address of the assignment of back to back Ready Reserve assignments
• No address of the assignment of trips to Reserves on the the opposite of the assigned reserve period. Scheduling has the ability to call an early period Reserve, put them at rest all day, then fly them all night. Not smart, not safe, but still legal under the current contract and the PBS LOA. Scheduling knows it, and practices this technique.
• No address of the assigning a Ready Reserve assignment without a demonstrable need (IROP, weather, etc). They can still assign a pilot ready reserve with ample short call reserves just because they can.
• No quantification of Ready Reserve duties. What, exactly, are Ready Reserves supposed to do while at the airport? Cover trips? Taxi airplanes?
• No language detailing what constitutes IROP.
• No address of Reserves being able to bid on trips within a specified time of the trip commencing. Allowing Reserves to bid on trips would, in essence, augment the Call Me First system in place, and allow (in seniority order) pilots who want to fly to fly.

 

[ASABound]

Poppa Hodax, EXCELLENT POINTS !!!

 

[No Delay]

Poppa - Very good points

 

[Data]

Wow, I'm for most of it... up until the four am ready reserve. Unfortunately, as a reserve for life guy, this will have the largest impact on my quality of life (think 6 times a month). I'm sorry, I can't get up at 2:15am to catch a 3:20am bus, I'll never recover and get my circadian rhythm back in line. This just turned me into a no vote, and I've been for it all along.

 

[SiuDude]

The Bad

• No pay increase. I must be missing something here, but the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the PBS LOA are exactly the same as the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the current contract. As I read this, accepting PBS will result in pay rates that the pilot group has already negotiated in the existing contract, and no pay increase.
• Negotiation is delayed for a year.

There is a new pay increase on 11/20/11, the day the contract will expire if this gets voted in.

 

[BWatz]

Reserve guys:

What do you think about bidding on reserve lines with the call times already assigned? I am not sure I like that. What if I want 1900 reserve with weekends off? Couldn't the company make those lines with only 0400 or 0600 reserve? This concerns me and I don't think its an improvement. If I am "senior" enough to hold a certain reserve line I should also be able to bid for my call time.

Any thoughts?

 

[sweptback]

Wow, I'm for most of it... up until the four am ready reserve. Unfortunately, as a reserve for life guy, this will have the largest impact on my quality of life (think 6 times a month). I'm sorry, I can't get up at 2:15am to catch a 3:20am bus, I'll never recover and get my circadian rhythm back in line. This just turned me into a no vote, and I've been for it all along.

The company already can assign ready reserve at 0400. They could assign it at whatever time they want right now -- there are no limits whatsoever.

They don't do this, because our earliest duty in is at 0600 or something. Why on earth would you want somebody on call at the airport at 0400 when the first flight doesn't leave for another two and a half hours?

All that section means is that if ready reserve is assigned to a pilot starting within the range of 0400-1200, it must go to an AM on-call period reserve. Therefore, it would be mostly impossible for a nap reserve to get the 0600 ready reserve slot.

 

[Data]

The company already can assign ready reserve at 0400. They could assign it at whatever time they want right now -- there are no limits whatsoever.

They don't do this, because our earliest duty in is at 0600 or something. Why on earth would you want somebody on call at the airport at 0400 when the first flight doesn't leave for another two and a half hours?

All that section means is that if ready reserve is assigned to a pilot starting within the range of 0400-1200, it must go to an AM on-call period reserve. Therefore, it would be mostly impossible for a nap reserve to get the 0600 ready reserve slot.

Thanks, that helps. I guess I should read it before making asinine statements.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Do captains really need a no fly list? Why not just tell the FO "Put me on your no fly list" or do the professional thing and talk to that FO? Are there that many FOs at ASA that captains want to avoid flying with? If the answer is yes, why isn't Pro Standards a lot busier?

 

[sweptback]

Do captains really need a no fly list? Why not just tell the FO "Put me on your no fly list" or do the professional thing and talk to that FO? Are there that many FOs at ASA that captains want to avoid flying with? If the answer is yes, why isn't Pro Standards a lot busier?

The reason there's no Captain no-fly list is that Captain bid runs are conducted first. So, at the time the Captain schedules are complete, all the FO positions would be blank.

Then, the FO positions are completed, and it's easy to avoid a pairing with a particular Captain, if that's what somebody wants.

If a Captain is serious about not wanting to fly with a particular FO, the Captain is probably not doing their job correctly. I agree that there are better ways to handle it.s

 

[701EV]

Big Poppa,

Nicely Done!

I would have thought the good list should be longer than the bad list?

 

[Abernathy]

Possibility of 4AM RRR is a dealbreaker. Earliest RRR period must be mandated to, earliest, 6AM. We haven't seen 4AM RRR yet, but if we've learned anything at all from the past, once we pass this thing, that's when we'll start seeing it.

 

[Baronman]

Possibility of 4AM RRR is a dealbreaker. Earliest RRR period must be mandated to, earliest, 6AM. We haven't seen 4AM RRR yet, but if we've learned anything at all from the past, once we pass this thing, that's when we'll start seeing it.

It sounds like the Reserve section is similar to what we have at XJT, bidding on call out times. As far as Ready Reserve, we have language that states the first Ready Reserve will start no earlier than the first scheduled flight that day.

 

[gator_hater]

I haven't read it yet, but some things that came to mind...

Current furlough runs out at 4 years, 5 is an improvement.

Coming from a guy was on reserve for a while...

4 am RR won't happen, wasting 2 hous of availability. As a side note if you were assigned it and got on the 4am bus no one would really care.

RR is in exchange for the 12 hour call out and is intended to cover a round trip until a short call guy can be brought in. In the 1.5 years I was on reserve my RR got turned into an overnight once. Not a real big deal to me. They currently use some standard, (1 700 and 3 200 crews I believe) unless there is forecast wx. RR is the trade off for long call. I'll take it. They now can't effectively remove an off day for the PM reserves, which for me seemed like the biggest hang up in the RR system.

I don't care what I do at the airport on a RR assignment. If there is a pressing issue like taxes on my laptop or a huge game on TV I'd rather Taxi than sit in a broken recliner. I thinki we are nit picking a little here.

I do agree that it would be nice for reserve guys to bid on some open trips. I believe at SkyWest they can pick up on off days and get paid above garuntee. Or allow reserves to request trips up to 48 hours if a line holder doesn't pick them up. That would be a decent deal.

I think some of Papa's points are valid, others are moot, others are in the current contract and we just don't realize it. Read it and attend a road show. Don't be a single issue voter, look at the whole package.

 

[B.T.Justice]

Reserve guys should be able to pick up trips on days off. And if you work in a day off it should automatically go above guarantee (for both line holders and reserve) This is the only way they can reasonably get above 75 hours. However, reserves picking up trips inside 48 hours is a bad idea. It bypasses the reserve bucket system, and would cause the more senior reserve pilots to always pick up trips, and the junior pilots getting stuck with garbage all the time. The bucket system is at least fair.

4AM Ready Reserve is a joke. I can see them using it...maybe for an MAF or a reposition. Then you can show up and sit for 3 hours while they finish the paperwork.

 

[Long Time Gone]

It's been at 28.5 in 7 scheduled or rescheduled since the last contract was signed. Maybe you should read it.

 

[Snapperhead]

Why can't we lift the 27.5 7 day limit. Why don't we go to 29.5 or even right to 30. The days of serious overblock are gone since the 5th runway was added. Its near impossible to pick up stuff when were limited to 27.5 hours in 7 days for some arbitrary reason.

We still have pilots on furlough. But I'm sure you know this already. What's next, 100 hr. lines...geez!

 

[B.T.Justice]

We still have pilots on furlough. But I'm sure you know this already. What's next, 100 hr. lines...geez!

Agreed...however some of us are displaced and have already lost 40% of our income, and are struggling to make ends meet. Its funny, when they displaced captains in September, the 700 was short, and the company offered premium pay to pick up trips. Plenty of captains picked up work, and I didn't hear anyone say anything about it.

If I was still a captain, I wouldn't pick up a thing. Anyway its a moot point anyway, it was fixed, reference 13.U.1.c

 

[SLUF4]

the 4AM ready reserve will probably be used for hot spare issues..for instance now I've been on 0400 reserve forever and they call all the time at 0400 so I can be there right at 6 to take the hot spare somewhere and rescue someone. Now they can just have you there at 4am so you can run the hot spare out right at 4am or whatever. That's probably the reasoning behind this, but as someone said earlier they can do that now if they really wanted to. oh and someone said RR rarely turns into an overnight-that's untrue. happens all the time to me..in fact I've had one turn into a 5 day before. that's some BS because even though I may be last on the bucket they can assign RR to whoever and rope you into a 4 or 5 day.

 

[OCP]

Guys... On the ready reserve thing. They already could assign RR at whatever time they want. 2 am 3.. 4... there is nothing that keeps them from doing that. They can shut down a reserve, give them 11hrs rest and set them up to do RR whenever they feel like it.

 

[BWatz]

The majority of my RR assignments have ended up as 4 day trips.. A few have been extended into 5 and 6 days after already sitting 8 hours of RR.

 

[aircombat]

I have read through the LOA a couple of times. I am not a lawyer, nor do I have experience in negotiating airline labor contracts. These are just the things that I noticed upon my initial review.

The Good

• Minimum day value increased to 3.86
• No fly list
• Trips will be front loaded
• Future open time swaps are instant
• Ability to drop/pick up portions of a trip
• Ready reserve trips outside the ready reserve period must depart within an hour
• Reserve pilots don't have to accept a trip that results in being away from domicile for more than four days, unless being released would cause a trip cancellation or a line holder being junior assigned.
• 401k plan will be able to deal in publicly traded stocks

...........(SNIP)

All of those positive points have nothing to do with PBS. Yes you have to take the good with the bad however these are only small improvements of which the flight attendants even have most of. This is a sugar dusting to swallow a big PBS pill. Plus all of the pay benefits don’t even start for at least a year!!!

I don’t know why you are under the impression that the trips will be front loaded. Like several things in this LOA it says that will be “taken into consideration” only after “considering the Company’s utilization parameters, operational productivity and performance, costs and efficient use of staffing”(13.C.1.1.a).

I guess they are giving you a slight hope that the pilots will have some input on pairing construction. There will be a PWG consisting of 3 people. The company will train up to 3 a year if it costs nothing but only 1 a year if it costs money. Being in the PWG is going to be a frustrating, thankless job. If that one person who is trained quits then there will be nobody trained on the system for our side. That matters little though because their input is limited to say the least. The PWG will spend time building possible pairing solutions however, it will only “be taken into consideration when developing a pairing solution”(13.C.1.1.d).

I was also under the impression that there would be a minimum number of 3 days offered. That’s not the case. Only a maximum of 60% 4 days. But that matters little also because if they were low block 3 days they would be paired back to back or have only 2 days off between them.

It also sounded like they were going to have a no downgrade clause but nothing of the sort. They won’t downgrade for PBS however, if we have reduced bock hours or lose aircraft then your out of luck. So get ready when Skywest takes those 4 aircraft.

 

[dash8driver64]

really?

I haven't read it yet, but some things that came to mind...

Current furlough runs out at 4 years, 5 is an improvement.

Coming from a guy was on reserve for a while...

4 am RR won't happen, wasting 2 hous of availability. As a side note if you were assigned it and got on the 4am bus no one would really care.

RR is in exchange for the 12 hour call out and is intended to cover a round trip until a short call guy can be brought in. In the 1.5 years I was on reserve my RR got turned into an overnight once. Not a real big deal to me. They currently use some standard, (1 700 and 3 200 crews I believe) unless there is forecast wx. RR is the trade off for long call. I'll take it. They now can't effectively remove an off day for the PM reserves, which for me seemed like the biggest hang up in the RR system.

I don't care what I do at the airport on a RR assignment. If there is a pressing issue like taxes on my laptop or a huge game on TV I'd rather Taxi than sit in a broken recliner. I thinki we are nit picking a little here.

I do agree that it would be nice for reserve guys to bid on some open trips. I believe at SkyWest they can pick up on off days and get paid above garuntee. Or allow reserves to request trips up to 48 hours if a line holder doesn't pick them up. That would be a decent deal.

I think some of Papa's points are valid, others are moot, others are in the current contract and we just don't realize it. Read it and attend a road show. Don't be a single issue voter, look at the whole package.

who are you blowing in scheduling?" I know of several pilots including myself that have had RR assignments turn in to as many as 5 day trips... and this has occurred on repeated occasions. Many more times than not, you will be out 2,3, or 4 days on a RR. THAT IS WHAT NEEEDS TO BE STOPPED....IN WRITING NOT A HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT.

 

[GeekMaster]

I have read through the LOA a couple of times. I am not a lawyer, nor do I have experience in negotiating airline labor contracts. These are just the things that I noticed upon my initial review.

The Good

• Minimum day value increased to 3.86
• No fly list
• Trips will be front loaded
• Future open time swaps are instant
• Ability to drop/pick up portions of a trip
• Ready reserve trips outside the ready reserve period must depart within an hour
• Reserve pilots don't have to accept a trip that results in being away from domicile for more than four days, unless being released would cause a trip cancellation or a line holder being junior assigned.
• 401k plan will be able to deal in publicly traded stocks

The Bad

• No pay increase. I must be missing something here, but the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the PBS LOA are exactly the same as the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the current contract. As I read this, accepting PBS will result in pay rates that the pilot group has already negotiated in the existing contract, and no pay increase.
• Negotiation is delayed for a year.
• Furloughs are terminated after they have been on furlough for five years.
• No language to prevent or minimize the assignment of trips on either side of vacation. This, in effect, prevents turning one week of vacation into three, or at least dropping conflicting trips.
• Ready Reserve can start at 0400. Considering that the latest bus to ensure a timely reporting for duty leaves at 0320, 0400 Ready Reserves work for free for a while in order to be on time.
• The company "will consider" quality of life issues when constructing trips. There is no language that binds them to anything other than considering QOL issues.
• The Company will, to the extent "reasonably practical", construct trips in accordance with some listed parameters. This language isn't specific, and provides nothing for Union approval of what is reasonably practical.
• Trips will be constructed to maintain a mix of trips, with no language provided with regard to the mix other than no more than 60% will be four days.
• The Company can award a pilot a reserve line (even if they can hold a regular line) despite open time remaining, if they deem a need for additional reserve staffing. The LOA contains neither language on what constitutes a valid need for additional reserve staffing, nor Union approval/validation of this need for reserve staffing.
• No fly list is only for First Officers. Captains, if you don't like a particular FO, you have no ability to avoid flying with that FO.
• Pilots are specifically forbidden from swapping, dropping, or trading a trip if it will take the pilot below 45 hours for the month.
• There will be at least one reserve line for every eight regular lines. This is a minimum. There is no language with regard to a maximum number of reserve lines. By the language in the LOA, the Company could build 8 regular lines and the rest reserve lines, and that bid package would be legal.
• The Company specifically reserves the right to assign training to reset a due month. Thus, the Company can arbitrarily assign a pilot a PC every month, obstensibly to reset the due month.
• The Company can assign a Reserve Line to a pilot upon completion of training. The LOA mentions trying to build a regular line, but the Company can assign a Reserve Line.
• Twelve pilots get a paid month off to teach the pilots how to use PBS.

The Unaddressed

• No holiday pay
• No address of the assignment of back to back Ready Reserve assignments
• No address of the assignment of trips to Reserves on the the opposite of the assigned reserve period. Scheduling has the ability to call an early period Reserve, put them at rest all day, then fly them all night. Not smart, not safe, but still legal under the current contract and the PBS LOA. Scheduling knows it, and practices this technique.
• No address of the assigning a Ready Reserve assignment without a demonstrable need (IROP, weather, etc). They can still assign a pilot ready reserve with ample short call reserves just because they can.
• No quantification of Ready Reserve duties. What, exactly, are Ready Reserves supposed to do while at the airport? Cover trips? Taxi airplanes?
• No language detailing what constitutes IROP.
• No address of Reserves being able to bid on trips within a specified time of the trip commencing. Allowing Reserves to bid on trips would, in essence, augment the Call Me First system in place, and allow (in seniority order) pilots who want to fly to fly.

Just wanted to address what might be misinterpretations. It's important for everyone to understand these points correctly. Others have already began addressing some of them but here goes.

• The raise is effective 11/20/2011. Without PBS, 11/20/2010 is the last raise scheduled. Of course longevity continues until year 18.
• Negotiations are not delayed at all. They start in May with or without PBS. The difference is that with PBS, we get an accelerated timetable before mutually requesting Mediation. Without it, the company is free to drag it out as long as their lawyers can.
• Furloughs at 5 years is an improvement.
• The language to minimize vacatioin bookending is actually excellent. Each pilot has 3 options for extending (or choosing not to) their vacation. While it's not completely guaranteed, neither is it currently. If you're the plug, it's very possible to get stuck with a 7 day vacation NOW. The main difference with PBS is that you can extend your vacation and STILL get paid 75 hours.
• Ready reserve can already start at 4 a.m. No real change. It just defines who does it.
• For trip contstruction, we get access to the process. Right now we don't. It's not perfect but it's a start in the right direction.
• The company already has the ability to increase or decrease reserve staffing by determining the number of lines to build as long as the known flying withheld from line construction falls within limits. This PBS LOA DOES have language that establishes upper and lower limits and the number of lines awarded must fall within that range. Not a big change from the current.
• As for the 8 to 1 ratio. Again, the maximum amount of the unassigned flying provision takes care of having 8 lines and everyone else on reserve. Therefore, 8 to 1 is a good thing. It means that if say 97% of the flying is assigned to lineholders and it equals 300 lines of flying, then they must also have at least 24 reserves lines to go with it.
• As for assigning training to reset your due month; PC's are expensive to do. They must also give you proper notice, so you can bid the training event slot. If I'm reading your incenuation correctly, are you suggesting they could bombard a pilot who's on their S-list with unwarranted PC's?

As for the unaddressed reserve issues, I agree that there are some issues that will need redress in the upcoming section 6. We did get improvement for having A.M reserves staying A.M. and P.M. staying P.M. We got improvement on having RR's first pulled from the 2 day bucket, etc.

I hope no one expects this single LOA to solve the entire reserve issue.

 

[ace6453]

Many more times than not, you will be out 2,3, or 4 days on a RR. THAT IS WHAT NEEEDS TO BE STOPPED....IN WRITING NOT A HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT.

This would be stopped with the LOA. The LOA put into writing what the handshake agreement says, so scheduling can't dicck with it anymore, and also RRR assignments can't be more than 3 hours out.

 

[crj567]

All of those positive points have nothing to do with PBS. Yes you have to take the good with the bad however these are only small improvements of which the flight attendants even have most of. This is a sugar dusting to swallow a big PBS pill. Plus all of the pay benefits don’t even start for at least a year!!!

I don’t know why you are under the impression that the trips will be front loaded. Like several things in this LOA it says that will be “taken into consideration” only after “considering the Company’s utilization parameters, operational productivity and performance, costs and efficient use of staffing”(13.C.1.1.a).

I guess they are giving you a slight hope that the pilots will have some input on pairing construction. There will be a PWG consisting of 3 people. The company will train up to 3 a year if it costs nothing but only 1 a year if it costs money. Being in the PWG is going to be a frustrating, thankless job. If that one person who is trained quits then there will be nobody trained on the system for our side. That matters little though because their input is limited to say the least. The PWG will spend time building possible pairing solutions however, it will only “be taken into consideration when developing a pairing solution”(13.C.1.1.d).

I was also under the impression that there would be a minimum number of 3 days offered. That’s not the case. Only a maximum of 60% 4 days. But that matters little also because if they were low block 3 days they would be paired back to back or have only 2 days off between them.[/SIZE]

It also sounded like they were going to have a no downgrade clause but nothing of the sort. They won’t downgrade for PBS however, if we have reduced bock hours or lose aircraft then your out of luck. So get ready when Skywest takes those 4 aircraft.

VERY important point-the company can screw us any way they want!

-VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mtsupilot]

21 days off next month with 76 hours of credit and only used one week of Vacation. Don't Vote No.... VOTE HELL NO!!!!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

21 days off next month with 76 hours of credit and only used one week of Vacation. Don't Vote No.... VOTE HELL NO!!!!

Guys. We are one of the last regionals without PBS. We need it to be competitive. If we can get an industry-leading PBS system in the process of becoming more competitive, that is great.