The actual ASA PBS LOA is out.

[SLUF4]

the 4AM ready reserve will probably be used for hot spare issues..for instance now I've been on 0400 reserve forever and they call all the time at 0400 so I can be there right at 6 to take the hot spare somewhere and rescue someone. Now they can just have you there at 4am so you can run the hot spare out right at 4am or whatever. That's probably the reasoning behind this, but as someone said earlier they can do that now if they really wanted to. oh and someone said RR rarely turns into an overnight-that's untrue. happens all the time to me..in fact I've had one turn into a 5 day before. that's some BS because even though I may be last on the bucket they can assign RR to whoever and rope you into a 4 or 5 day.

 

[OCP]

Guys... On the ready reserve thing. They already could assign RR at whatever time they want. 2 am 3.. 4... there is nothing that keeps them from doing that. They can shut down a reserve, give them 11hrs rest and set them up to do RR whenever they feel like it.

 

[BWatz]

The majority of my RR assignments have ended up as 4 day trips.. A few have been extended into 5 and 6 days after already sitting 8 hours of RR.

 

[aircombat]

I have read through the LOA a couple of times. I am not a lawyer, nor do I have experience in negotiating airline labor contracts. These are just the things that I noticed upon my initial review.

The Good

• Minimum day value increased to 3.86
• No fly list
• Trips will be front loaded
• Future open time swaps are instant
• Ability to drop/pick up portions of a trip
• Ready reserve trips outside the ready reserve period must depart within an hour
• Reserve pilots don't have to accept a trip that results in being away from domicile for more than four days, unless being released would cause a trip cancellation or a line holder being junior assigned.
• 401k plan will be able to deal in publicly traded stocks

...........(SNIP)

All of those positive points have nothing to do with PBS. Yes you have to take the good with the bad however these are only small improvements of which the flight attendants even have most of. This is a sugar dusting to swallow a big PBS pill. Plus all of the pay benefits don’t even start for at least a year!!!

I don’t know why you are under the impression that the trips will be front loaded. Like several things in this LOA it says that will be “taken into consideration” only after “considering the Company’s utilization parameters, operational productivity and performance, costs and efficient use of staffing”(13.C.1.1.a).

I guess they are giving you a slight hope that the pilots will have some input on pairing construction. There will be a PWG consisting of 3 people. The company will train up to 3 a year if it costs nothing but only 1 a year if it costs money. Being in the PWG is going to be a frustrating, thankless job. If that one person who is trained quits then there will be nobody trained on the system for our side. That matters little though because their input is limited to say the least. The PWG will spend time building possible pairing solutions however, it will only “be taken into consideration when developing a pairing solution”(13.C.1.1.d).

I was also under the impression that there would be a minimum number of 3 days offered. That’s not the case. Only a maximum of 60% 4 days. But that matters little also because if they were low block 3 days they would be paired back to back or have only 2 days off between them.

It also sounded like they were going to have a no downgrade clause but nothing of the sort. They won’t downgrade for PBS however, if we have reduced bock hours or lose aircraft then your out of luck. So get ready when Skywest takes those 4 aircraft.

 

[dash8driver64]

really?

I haven't read it yet, but some things that came to mind...

Current furlough runs out at 4 years, 5 is an improvement.

Coming from a guy was on reserve for a while...

4 am RR won't happen, wasting 2 hous of availability. As a side note if you were assigned it and got on the 4am bus no one would really care.

RR is in exchange for the 12 hour call out and is intended to cover a round trip until a short call guy can be brought in. In the 1.5 years I was on reserve my RR got turned into an overnight once. Not a real big deal to me. They currently use some standard, (1 700 and 3 200 crews I believe) unless there is forecast wx. RR is the trade off for long call. I'll take it. They now can't effectively remove an off day for the PM reserves, which for me seemed like the biggest hang up in the RR system.

I don't care what I do at the airport on a RR assignment. If there is a pressing issue like taxes on my laptop or a huge game on TV I'd rather Taxi than sit in a broken recliner. I thinki we are nit picking a little here.

I do agree that it would be nice for reserve guys to bid on some open trips. I believe at SkyWest they can pick up on off days and get paid above garuntee. Or allow reserves to request trips up to 48 hours if a line holder doesn't pick them up. That would be a decent deal.

I think some of Papa's points are valid, others are moot, others are in the current contract and we just don't realize it. Read it and attend a road show. Don't be a single issue voter, look at the whole package.

who are you blowing in scheduling?" I know of several pilots including myself that have had RR assignments turn in to as many as 5 day trips... and this has occurred on repeated occasions. Many more times than not, you will be out 2,3, or 4 days on a RR. THAT IS WHAT NEEEDS TO BE STOPPED....IN WRITING NOT A HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT.

 

[GeekMaster]

I have read through the LOA a couple of times. I am not a lawyer, nor do I have experience in negotiating airline labor contracts. These are just the things that I noticed upon my initial review.

The Good

• Minimum day value increased to 3.86
• No fly list
• Trips will be front loaded
• Future open time swaps are instant
• Ability to drop/pick up portions of a trip
• Ready reserve trips outside the ready reserve period must depart within an hour
• Reserve pilots don't have to accept a trip that results in being away from domicile for more than four days, unless being released would cause a trip cancellation or a line holder being junior assigned.
• 401k plan will be able to deal in publicly traded stocks

The Bad

• No pay increase. I must be missing something here, but the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the PBS LOA are exactly the same as the pay rates for 11/20/10 listed in the current contract. As I read this, accepting PBS will result in pay rates that the pilot group has already negotiated in the existing contract, and no pay increase.
• Negotiation is delayed for a year.
• Furloughs are terminated after they have been on furlough for five years.
• No language to prevent or minimize the assignment of trips on either side of vacation. This, in effect, prevents turning one week of vacation into three, or at least dropping conflicting trips.
• Ready Reserve can start at 0400. Considering that the latest bus to ensure a timely reporting for duty leaves at 0320, 0400 Ready Reserves work for free for a while in order to be on time.
• The company "will consider" quality of life issues when constructing trips. There is no language that binds them to anything other than considering QOL issues.
• The Company will, to the extent "reasonably practical", construct trips in accordance with some listed parameters. This language isn't specific, and provides nothing for Union approval of what is reasonably practical.
• Trips will be constructed to maintain a mix of trips, with no language provided with regard to the mix other than no more than 60% will be four days.
• The Company can award a pilot a reserve line (even if they can hold a regular line) despite open time remaining, if they deem a need for additional reserve staffing. The LOA contains neither language on what constitutes a valid need for additional reserve staffing, nor Union approval/validation of this need for reserve staffing.
• No fly list is only for First Officers. Captains, if you don't like a particular FO, you have no ability to avoid flying with that FO.
• Pilots are specifically forbidden from swapping, dropping, or trading a trip if it will take the pilot below 45 hours for the month.
• There will be at least one reserve line for every eight regular lines. This is a minimum. There is no language with regard to a maximum number of reserve lines. By the language in the LOA, the Company could build 8 regular lines and the rest reserve lines, and that bid package would be legal.
• The Company specifically reserves the right to assign training to reset a due month. Thus, the Company can arbitrarily assign a pilot a PC every month, obstensibly to reset the due month.
• The Company can assign a Reserve Line to a pilot upon completion of training. The LOA mentions trying to build a regular line, but the Company can assign a Reserve Line.
• Twelve pilots get a paid month off to teach the pilots how to use PBS.

The Unaddressed

• No holiday pay
• No address of the assignment of back to back Ready Reserve assignments
• No address of the assignment of trips to Reserves on the the opposite of the assigned reserve period. Scheduling has the ability to call an early period Reserve, put them at rest all day, then fly them all night. Not smart, not safe, but still legal under the current contract and the PBS LOA. Scheduling knows it, and practices this technique.
• No address of the assigning a Ready Reserve assignment without a demonstrable need (IROP, weather, etc). They can still assign a pilot ready reserve with ample short call reserves just because they can.
• No quantification of Ready Reserve duties. What, exactly, are Ready Reserves supposed to do while at the airport? Cover trips? Taxi airplanes?
• No language detailing what constitutes IROP.
• No address of Reserves being able to bid on trips within a specified time of the trip commencing. Allowing Reserves to bid on trips would, in essence, augment the Call Me First system in place, and allow (in seniority order) pilots who want to fly to fly.

Just wanted to address what might be misinterpretations. It's important for everyone to understand these points correctly. Others have already began addressing some of them but here goes.

• The raise is effective 11/20/2011. Without PBS, 11/20/2010 is the last raise scheduled. Of course longevity continues until year 18.
• Negotiations are not delayed at all. They start in May with or without PBS. The difference is that with PBS, we get an accelerated timetable before mutually requesting Mediation. Without it, the company is free to drag it out as long as their lawyers can.
• Furloughs at 5 years is an improvement.
• The language to minimize vacatioin bookending is actually excellent. Each pilot has 3 options for extending (or choosing not to) their vacation. While it's not completely guaranteed, neither is it currently. If you're the plug, it's very possible to get stuck with a 7 day vacation NOW. The main difference with PBS is that you can extend your vacation and STILL get paid 75 hours.
• Ready reserve can already start at 4 a.m. No real change. It just defines who does it.
• For trip contstruction, we get access to the process. Right now we don't. It's not perfect but it's a start in the right direction.
• The company already has the ability to increase or decrease reserve staffing by determining the number of lines to build as long as the known flying withheld from line construction falls within limits. This PBS LOA DOES have language that establishes upper and lower limits and the number of lines awarded must fall within that range. Not a big change from the current.
• As for the 8 to 1 ratio. Again, the maximum amount of the unassigned flying provision takes care of having 8 lines and everyone else on reserve. Therefore, 8 to 1 is a good thing. It means that if say 97% of the flying is assigned to lineholders and it equals 300 lines of flying, then they must also have at least 24 reserves lines to go with it.
• As for assigning training to reset your due month; PC's are expensive to do. They must also give you proper notice, so you can bid the training event slot. If I'm reading your incenuation correctly, are you suggesting they could bombard a pilot who's on their S-list with unwarranted PC's?

As for the unaddressed reserve issues, I agree that there are some issues that will need redress in the upcoming section 6. We did get improvement for having A.M reserves staying A.M. and P.M. staying P.M. We got improvement on having RR's first pulled from the 2 day bucket, etc.

I hope no one expects this single LOA to solve the entire reserve issue.

 

[ace6453]

Many more times than not, you will be out 2,3, or 4 days on a RR. THAT IS WHAT NEEEDS TO BE STOPPED....IN WRITING NOT A HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT.

This would be stopped with the LOA. The LOA put into writing what the handshake agreement says, so scheduling can't dicck with it anymore, and also RRR assignments can't be more than 3 hours out.

 

[crj567]

All of those positive points have nothing to do with PBS. Yes you have to take the good with the bad however these are only small improvements of which the flight attendants even have most of. This is a sugar dusting to swallow a big PBS pill. Plus all of the pay benefits don’t even start for at least a year!!!

I don’t know why you are under the impression that the trips will be front loaded. Like several things in this LOA it says that will be “taken into consideration” only after “considering the Company’s utilization parameters, operational productivity and performance, costs and efficient use of staffing”(13.C.1.1.a).

I guess they are giving you a slight hope that the pilots will have some input on pairing construction. There will be a PWG consisting of 3 people. The company will train up to 3 a year if it costs nothing but only 1 a year if it costs money. Being in the PWG is going to be a frustrating, thankless job. If that one person who is trained quits then there will be nobody trained on the system for our side. That matters little though because their input is limited to say the least. The PWG will spend time building possible pairing solutions however, it will only “be taken into consideration when developing a pairing solution”(13.C.1.1.d).

I was also under the impression that there would be a minimum number of 3 days offered. That’s not the case. Only a maximum of 60% 4 days. But that matters little also because if they were low block 3 days they would be paired back to back or have only 2 days off between them.[/SIZE]

It also sounded like they were going to have a no downgrade clause but nothing of the sort. They won’t downgrade for PBS however, if we have reduced bock hours or lose aircraft then your out of luck. So get ready when Skywest takes those 4 aircraft.

VERY important point-the company can screw us any way they want!

-VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mtsupilot]

21 days off next month with 76 hours of credit and only used one week of Vacation. Don't Vote No.... VOTE HELL NO!!!!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

21 days off next month with 76 hours of credit and only used one week of Vacation. Don't Vote No.... VOTE HELL NO!!!!

Guys. We are one of the last regionals without PBS. We need it to be competitive. If we can get an industry-leading PBS system in the process of becoming more competitive, that is great.

 

[OCP]

VERY important point-the company can screw us any way they want!

-VOTE NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They can do that to you now. Or did you not know that?

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

I hope no one expects this single LOA to solve the entire reserve issue

That's exactly right. I think some people think this is contract negotiations! It is what it is.Simply put, it's negotiations for a PBS system that will will be at ASA, and in my opinion, looks industry leading!

 

[aircombat]

Guys. We are one of the last regionals without PBS. We need it to be competitive. If we can get an industry-leading PBS system in the process of becoming more competitive, that is great.

I strongly urge that if competitiveness/growth is a major reason that you want to vote yes, you should reconsider. I know that most other regionals have it however, we are not playing on the same field as them anymore. We are now an alter ego airline and for any chance of growth will have to become cheaper than our sister company. If you or the union want to continue waving the growth flag there is going to have to be some data to back it up. I want to know how much money this can save the company, what are ASA’s total expenses, and what are Skywest’s total expenses? Without that data you are just wandering blindly. Is saving the company less than 1% going to make us cheaper than Skywest? Also remember what happened to the other regionals that voted in LOAs for growth.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

I strongly urge that if competitiveness/growth is a major reason that you want to vote yes, you should reconsider. I know that most other regionals have it however, we are not playing on the same field as them anymore. We are now an alter ego airline and for any chance of growth will have to become cheaper than our sister company. If you or the union want to continue waving the growth flag there is going to have to be some data to back it up. I want to know how much money this can save the company, what are ASA’s total expenses, and what are Skywest’s total expenses? Without that data you are just wandering blindly. Is saving the company less than 1% going to make us cheaper than Skywest? Also remember what happened to the other regionals that voted in LOAs for growth.

First of all, you need to study up on what an alter-ego airline is. We were purchased in our present form, not started as a union-busting maneuver.

Second, exactly how will voting no (and thumbing your nose to management) help your position? Your attitude is the same as those that burn as much fuel as possible when they are angry that the company will not give them a pay raise. It makes absolutely no sense, and shows ignorance.

SkyWest wants us to be successful and profitable. PBS will help us towards that, and make us look more appealing. Voting no out of spite, that's just stupid.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Oh, and I'm voting yes because I think it will be better for the pilots, as well as the company as a whole. PBS is a more advanced method of bidding, and will be better than line bidding just due to that fact alone, not to mention all of the other advantages negotiated into the LOA. Why would I want someone else to build my schedule?

 

[aircombat]

I hope no one expects this single LOA to solve the entire reserve issue

That's exactly right. I think some people think this is contract negotiations! It is what it is.Simply put, it's negotiations for a PBS system that will will be at ASA, and in my opinion, looks industry leading!

Jack you never offer any constructive input. This is your chance. What exactly makes it industry leading? Most of the positive points in this LOA have nothing to do with PBS. Is it the false sense of control this PWG offers? The ability to not get total hosed on vacation? Our current system is still better.
You do bring up a good point. Why isn’t this a new contract? They have essentially changed every section. Is it common for companies to change most of the contract with an LOA? I know that LOAs are common however they are usually making only slight changes. This way we don’t even get a meager bonus check.

 

[aircombat]

Oh, and I'm voting yes because I think it will be better for the pilots, as well as the company as a whole. PBS is a more advanced method of bidding, and will be better than line bidding just due to that fact alone, not to mention all of the other advantages negotiated into the LOA. Why would I want someone else to build my schedule?

I will agree with you if you mean “better for the top 10% of the pilots”. Many people realize that the desirability decreases exponentially with less seniority. I think it comical that there is a provision making it so that reserve pilots will not have to work 5 or 6 days in a row, if there are extra reserves available, however line pilots can be assigned 5 or 6 days in a row.
Some people say well they don’t do that now so why would they do it with PBS. Simply because they will have to. Now efficient pairings are matched in lines with less efficient pairings. Otherwise pilots would complain about the sharp contrast between line QOL. With PBS the very senior pilots will pick-up all of the high block pairings leaving only low block pairings. To meet the minimum block credit, pairings will have to be back to back or with only 2 days off in-between them. Were will the cut off point be between good and bad lines? I have no clue. A lot will depend how the pairings are made and not even the PWG has any control over that.

 

[Poppa Hodax]

I hope no one expects this single LOA to solve the entire reserve issue

The Company and the Union missed an opportunity then. Fixing (or at least improving) the reserve system would have helped in a lot of ways. Not only would the quality of life for Reserves been improved, but that improvement could have rallied a lot of support behind the PBS vote. Line holders can't reasonably expect Reserves (who have no hope of holding a line any time soon) to support an agreement that offers them little. The Union and the Company had a chance to show the entire pilot group some improvement. Instead, they more or less gave the Reserves the finger.
Further, improving the QOL of Reserves now would help over the looming grind of contract negotiations. The Union shouldn't be overly surprised when the Reserves aren't particularly excited to rally round the flag during negotiations. And May isn't that far off.

 

[aircombat]

First of all, you need to study up on what an alter-ego airline is. We were purchased in our present form, not started as a union-busting maneuver.

Second, exactly how will voting no (and thumbing your nose to management) help your position? Your attitude is the same as those that burn as much fuel as possible when they are angry that the company will not give them a pay raise. It makes absolutely no sense, and shows ignorance.

SkyWest wants us to be successful and profitable. PBS will help us towards that, and make us look more appealing. Voting no out of spite, that's just stupid.

I’m not trying to “thumb my nose at management”, or doing anything out of spite. Is what I am trying to do is set obtainable goals and do what is necessary to reach them. Saving the company less than 1% simply isn’t going to obtain a goal of growth. When it comes to growth, since it will be impossible to become cheaper than Skywest, there is only ONE solution. The union doesn’t like that solution because there is a slight risk to their existence. I don’t think there is a large chance that we would lose the union however the alternative to this story is worse.

 

[gator_hater]

who are you blowing in scheduling?" I know of several pilots including myself that have had RR assignments turn in to as many as 5 day trips... and this has occurred on repeated occasions. Many more times than not, you will be out 2,3, or 4 days on a RR. THAT IS WHAT NEEEDS TO BE STOPPED....IN WRITING NOT A HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT.

To answer your question noone, guess I just got lucky. I also did't have near the RR assignments most did because (I think) I rarely moved off days around. Don't get me wrong, the provision about 4 days away is a great thing. It could be stronger, but this is a start.