Altrnate Crew Pairing model at ASA

[Jack-O-Lantern]

It's a shame it will take another disastrous month of this before MGT. realizes this will not work in the worlds busiest airport.My prediction is, performance numbers will drop significantly!

 

[Data]

Next month is February, the schedule will be down quite a bit from what it was last summer. Perhaps it was just me, but even then I barely noticed it being a problem...

 

[www.]

It's a shame it will take another disastrous month of this before MGT. realizes this will not work in the worlds busiest airport.My prediction is, performance numbers will drop significantly!

Ok. Do understand why they did this?

Pilots do not like 4 days, FAs have to have 75 hour lines per their contract. Can't do both. What do you want, less 4 days OR be buddies with the FAs and do 4 days.

 

[ohplease!]

Not once did I have a problem with on time in ATL the last time this was done. A couple of times I asked for and received a ready reserve FA to board the pax while the other FA got to the plane. Everyone else seems to be able to handle it...why do you have such a tough time?

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Didn't work so well for me last time! Took many delays during the month. Many hours of sitting around ATL waiting on a FA that was still in DSM, TLH, or somewhere else, and all RR's used.I know I wasn't the only one.
I'm all for whatever improves the schedules,just saying it didn't work flawlessly for me.You can not tell me it will not have an impact on our on time performance!

 

[CFI2766]

Ok. Do understand why they did this?

Pilots do not like 4 days, FAs have to have 75 hour lines per their contract. Can't do both. What do you want, less 4 days OR be buddies with the FAs and do 4 days.

The way I read the memo, there would be MORE, not less, four day trips for the February schedule. More variety, whatever that means. Don't get where you are going with this; I think you misunderstood.

FWIW, I didn't have too many problems with the separate schedules the last time we did this. With a lighter schedule this time around, I don't foresee delays due to this now.

However, I'm disappointed that our management cares so little for our physiological need for rest. Decisions like these make you wonder just how much safety matters to ASA. Clearly, we are told overtly that safety is paramount. Just as clearly, though, safety isn't as important as profitability. With decisions like this, the safety of a given ASA flight has devolved to the self preservation instincts of a given flight crew, as opposed to the product of a corporate culture based on safety.

I was disappointed in the decrease in rest, but I'm downright pissed that there was a threat delivered in the form of 'decreased variety' of trips if the ARC comes back with a minimum of 10 hours of scheduled rest. 10 hours of actual rest should be an absolute minimum that is not subject to a reduction due to 'operational delay.'

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Ok. Do understand why they did this?

Pilots do not like 4 days, FAs have to have 75 hour lines per their contract. Can't do both. What do you want, less 4 days OR be buddies with the FAs and do 4 days.

Exactly.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

The way I read the memo, there would be MORE, not less, four day trips for the February schedule. More variety, whatever that means. Don't get where you are going with this; I think you misunderstood.

FWIW, I didn't have too many problems with the separate schedules the last time we did this. With a lighter schedule this time around, I don't foresee delays due to this now.

However, I'm disappointed that our management cares so little for our physiological need for rest. Decisions like these make you wonder just how much safety matters to ASA. Clearly, we are told overtly that safety is paramount. Just as clearly, though, safety isn't as important as profitability. With decisions like this, the safety of a given ASA flight has devolved to the self preservation instincts of a given flight crew, as opposed to the product of a corporate culture based on safety.

I was disappointed in the decrease in rest, but I'm downright pissed that there was a threat delivered in the form of 'decreased variety' of trips if the ARC comes back with a minimum of 10 hours of scheduled rest. 10 hours of actual rest should be an absolute minimum that is not subject to a reduction due to 'operational delay.'

I didn't think that was a threat, it was just a factual statement about how the pairings will be built if limitations are placed on rest. The whole thing is a giant balloon. If you push on one side, the other side bulges. If you want 3 days, there can't be as much rest between days and still maintain high block lines. If you want more guaranteed days off per month, then there will be fewer 19 day off lines to compensate. Sorry man. No conspiracy here, just reality.

 

[SLUF4]

I just didn't like giving 10 FA briefings during a 4-day, but I'm used to it. I had trouble with it in the summer and half the time scheduling had no idea what was going on until I called up there to ask where the FA was. As for the 9 hour layovers I suspect even more fatigue calls above the 800% increase in the last few years that Les told us about in RGT.

 

[CFI2766]

I didn't think that was a threat, it was just a factual statement about how the pairings will be built if limitations are placed on rest. The whole thing is a giant balloon. If you push on one side, the other side bulges. If you want 3 days, there can't be as much rest between days and still maintain high block lines. If you want more guaranteed days off per month, then there will be fewer 19 day off lines to compensate. Sorry man. No conspiracy here, just reality.

From the tenor of your reply, it appears that you are an advocate of abolishing rest rules altogether in airline operations. Is that a true statement? If not, would you characterize the current rest rules as being based off of sound scientific research into fatigue, or barring that, as simply adequate?

It was interesting, and perhaps enlightening, that the variable that you mentioned the most dismissively in your analogy was the flight crews' need for rest.

Here is reality: ASA's safety record is put in jeopardy every time our airline operates a flight with crews that have not had the chance to get enough sleep. Based off of personal experience and that of my peers, this happens with incredible regularity.

 

[flighttrainer]

Tons of three days next month on 200. Should take some of the pain away of switching crews.

 

[JoeMerchant]

However, I'm disappointed that our management cares so little for our physiological need for rest. Decisions like these make you wonder just how much safety matters to ASA. Clearly, we are told overtly that safety is paramount. Just as clearly, though, safety isn't as important as profitability. With decisions like this, the safety of a given ASA flight has devolved to the self preservation instincts of a given flight crew, as opposed to the product of a corporate culture based on safety.'

YGTBSM!...They lowered the overnight time to help build MORE 3 day trips because that is what the pilots wanted....Sorry Glen, but most of us would rather do 3 days with short overnights rather than 4 days with long overnights...There are plenty of 4 day trips for those of you who want the longer overnights.

The company does what we want AND we still b!Tch....

This is actually going to hurt our numbers...This isn't being done for the company....

 

[1080P]

Did I miss this memo??????

 

[sweptback]

This is actually going to hurt our numbers...This isn't being done for the company....

I don't think our numbers were hurt that bad in July (or was it June, I can't remember when we last did it.)

 

[sweptback]

I didn't think that was a threat, it was just a factual statement about how the pairings will be built if limitations are placed on rest. The whole thing is a giant balloon. If you push on one side, the other side bulges. If you want 3 days, there can't be as much rest between days and still maintain high block lines. If you want more guaranteed days off per month, then there will be fewer 19 day off lines to compensate. Sorry man. No conspiracy here, just reality.

The whole 10-hour rest thing may not be a big deal, because Delta (and every other airline out there) will change their marketing schedule to reflect the new rest rules.

Airplanes won't necessarily sit on the ground any longer, but marketing schedules will eventually be designed around crew rest needs rather than treating them as an afterthought.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I don't think our numbers were hurt that bad in July (or was it June, I can't remember when we last did it.)

The 9 hour rest will create delays in the morning for rest....

 

[JoeMerchant]

The whole 10-hour rest thing may not be a big deal, because Delta (and every other airline out there) will change their marketing schedule to reflect the new rest rules.

Airplanes won't necessarily sit on the ground any longer, but marketing schedules will eventually be designed around crew rest needs rather than treating them as an afterthought.

It will result in shorter days, and more days at work....It will also result in only the very short naps (ie the least amount of rest) being legal...

 

[www.]

The way I read the memo, there would be MORE, not less, four day trips for the February schedule. More variety, whatever that means. Don't get where you are going with this; I think you misunderstood.

'

Pull up the PDF file of FEB sch and you will see the difference.

 

[www.]

I just didn't like giving 10 FA briefings during a 4-day, but I'm used to it. I had trouble with it in the summer and half the time scheduling had no idea what was going on until I called up there to ask where the FA was. As for the 9 hour layovers I suspect even more fatigue calls above the 800% increase in the last few years that Les told us about in RGT.

Print up your briefing on a 8 x 11 card and just give it to them then verify the code word. That's it!

 

[www.]

Tons of three days next month on 200. Should take some of the pain away of switching crews.

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