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livintheredream

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Posts
93
Even Staple. Anything to put us out of our misery. The MESA with boeings has gotten worse by the day. I am sure you will NOT see a crazy reaction like Frontier pilots had!!!! See where that got them.....

Southwest CEO on mergers: 'Never say never'

Southwest Airlines chief says 'never say never' to the idea of a merger




By Harry R. Weber, AP Airlines Writer , On Thursday December 17, 2009, 2:17 pm EST
ATLANTA (AP) -- The CEO of Southwest Airlines Co. said Thursday the discount carrier would never rule out the idea of acquiring another carrier in order to grow.
But Gary Kelly told a Wings Club gathering in New York that it is important to Southwest to maintain its point-to-point business model and its ability to manage its fleet, which helps keep costs low.
"I would never say never, and you know I won't give you a straight answer on that," he said during a question-and-answer session after his speech, which was broadcast on the Internet.
Kelly said Southwest, based in Dallas, will be on the prowl for any opportunities that help it grow.
Earlier this year, Southwest made a bid to buy Frontier Airlines out of bankruptcy but withdrew when it could not get an agreement with union pilots over merging the Southwest and Frontier crews.
Frontier was bought instead by Republic Airways Holdings Inc.
On Tuesday, Delta Air Lines Inc. CEO Richard Anderson told investors at a conference that a case could be made for further consolidation in the U.S. airline industry, but it's unclear whether the Obama administration would allow it.
Anderson didn't hint whether the world's biggest airline, which bought Northwest Airlines last year, has the appetite for another acquisition. But he suggested there is room for more mergers in the industry.
Some analysts have speculated in the past that Alaska Air Group Inc. or JetBlue Airways Corp. could be appealing targets for Delta. There also has been talk in recent years of possible combinations between Continental Airlines Inc. and United Airlines and between American Airlines and US Airways Group Inc.
But no merger deals involving major carriers have materialized since Delta bought Northwest.
Kelly said that Southwest's current plans are for its capacity, as measured by available seats times miles flown, to be roughly flat in 2010 compared to this year.
He said he believes the economy will continue to grow modestly in 2010, but Southwest plans to be conservative.




Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.

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I've heard for 6 months that Q1 2010 SWA will buy AirTran. However, I just can't imagine the train wreck that will insue.

I'd like to start the bidding with pure staple :)

Gup
 
I've heard for 6 months that Q1 2010 SWA will buy AirTran. However, I just can't imagine the train wreck that will insue.

I'd like to start the bidding with pure staple :)

Gup
Oh jeez... here we go again. :rolleyes:

Just go ahead and make it in January, please? Would be nice to have it done and go to Southwest instead of back to AAI after the arbitration.

Thanks in advance. ;)
 
I know 800 +- FO's who would take a staple today. About half the CA's would get a pay raise as WN FO's and the other half have hugh ego's that will say no to anything.
 
merger and get rid of the best mgmt in the industry? i do not think so. i would only vote for a merger if we get to keep the top brass. hehehehehe just kidding. PLEASE BUY US. we will be good, i promise.
 
I know 800 +- FO's who would take a staple today. About half the CA's would get a pay raise as WN FO's and the other half have hugh ego's that will say no to anything.

Careful what you wish for. What good is being stapled to the bottom of a list if you are furloughed? Southwest is already overstaffed with nowhere else to grow, take a look at the markets that they have entered recently, markets that they said they would never touch (LGA, PHL). F9 saw the writing on the wall and chose to merge with a commuter instead of being SWAPA furlough fodder. Think about it, and stop drinking before noon.
 
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Careful what you wish for. What good is being stapled to the bottom of a list if you are furloughed? Southwest is already overstaffed with nowhere else to grow, take a look at the markets that they have entered recently, markets that they said they would never touch (LGA, PHL). F9 saw the writing on the wall and chose to merge with a commuter instead of being SWAPA furlough fodder. Think about it, and stop drinking before noon.

SWA just released the May '10 schedule and the system block hours will be up about 10% over the current schedule and brings it almost back to May '08 levels. So you can put the SWA furlough rumors away for now...until Obamanomics really starts to kick in. :(
 
I can see why most Airtran pilots would want a merger with Southwest----it is OBVIOUS. The answer: Intra Texas flying. Who wouldn't want to go to LBB, then back to DAL, then to AMA, then back to DAL. What possibly could be better than that? How about adding another roundtrip to MAF? You bet. Yeah, the pay may be a bit better at SWA and the corporate culture a bit "nicer," but Intra Texas flying would DEFINITELY take the bite away from the Staple job SWAPA will offer you guys. Take it!!!! Who cares if it is a staple, LBB is waiting for you. And, you guys at AAI were NEVER good enough to be SWA pilots anyway, so starting over at the bottom at SWA won't be such a bad thing. How do I know that? Just ask any SWA pilot---they will tell you....



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
I can see why most Airtran pilots would want a merger with Southwest----it is OBVIOUS. The answer: Intra Texas flying. Who wouldn't want to go to LBB, then back to DAL, then to AMA, then back to DAL. What possibly could be better than that? How about adding another roundtrip to MAF? You bet. Yeah, the pay may be a bit better at SWA and the corporate culture a bit "nicer," but Intra Texas flying would DEFINITELY take the bite away from the Staple job SWAPA will offer you guys. Take it!!!! Who cares if it is a staple, LBB is waiting for you. And, you guys at AAI were NEVER good enough to be SWA pilots anyway, so starting over at the bottom at SWA won't be such a bad thing. How do I know that? Just ask any SWA pilot---they will tell you....



Bye Bye--General Lee

Damn you are a f##kin fool. No wonder everyone on this board hates you.
 
I've heard for 6 months that Q1 2010 SWA will buy AirTran. However, I just can't imagine the train wreck that will insue.

I'd like to start the bidding with pure staple :)

Gup


Better do you homework. And put away your stapler.

Seniority would be worked out, by law, in arbitration.

If you don't want to have a fair merger integration, then don't buy
anybody. GET IT?
 
Damn you are a f##kin fool. No wonder everyone on this board hates you.

No, you have it WRONG. Everyone LOVES ME, they do. If you don't, you just don't understand my humor. It is supposed to make you LAUGH. I think you are a little bit too effeminate. Sorry, lady. Grow a pair if you can.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
SW buying AAI and establishing a presence in the ATL. Boy would that be fun to watch...


It would be interesting, but not something new. We compete directly with them at a lot of our stations, SLC being a major one. SWA has pulled out of some flights there recently. We would have to reguage our strategy and maybe get rid of some more RJs to compete with them better, maybe throw more DC9s on certain routes etc. I don't think it will catch anyone by surprise, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Better do you homework. And put away your stapler.

Seniority would be worked out, by law, in arbitration.

If you don't want to have a fair merger integration, then don't buy
anybody. GET IT?

You better believe it. They will come in offering a staple, to see if you take it. After you take it, they will dump some 717s and furlough a bunch, while upgrading themselves in your 737s. It will simply be FANTASTIC to watch. Your MIA and SAN layovers will be replaced with LBB and ISP. Enjoy those.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Better do you homework. And put away your stapler.

Seniority would be worked out, by law, in arbitration.

If you don't want to have a fair merger integration, then don't buy
anybody. GET IT?

"We" don't want to buy anyone that is why the only offer is staple.
 
Ok- we have our 10%- but a vast majority of our pilot group is ready to accept some form of integration- it won't be straight line, it won't be DOH, but it certainly won't be a staple.

Benefits for AT-
mgmt- AT has been in negotiations for 5 years ... Connect the dots
culture- it's nice being happy vs fighting the fight
contract- what would the $$ be for each AT pilot? Go to APC
commutes- 60% of you commute- add 8 more dom's to your choices

benefits for SWA
ATL- a gaping hole
near Int'l-

Benefits for both
combines the 2 lowest cost carriers
eliminates toughest competition
not much route overlap

???'s
can AT employees rise to the Swa culture- thinking about FA's and agents here-
 
This is a pointless discussion. As cheap as SWA is, they will never pay retail for anything...including other airlines. As long as AAI is a going concern, I just can't see it being worth the price.
 
I'd like to start the bidding with pure staple :)

I agree! We would be more than happy to staple your pilots to the bottom of our list! Good call.

Better do you homework. And put away your stapler.

Seniority would be worked out, by law, in arbitration.

If you don't want to have a fair merger integration, then don't buy
anybody. GET IT?

Exactly. But don't let facts get in the way of SWA ego.
 
SWA would be foolish to try to buy AT. If it happened, it would be the end of SWA as we know it. There would be continual infighting because no one would be happy. I still believe that the best combo slipped away....the F9 deal.
 
There would be continual infighting because no one would be happy.
Speak for yourself, skippy, as long as there was a no-furlough clause, I'd take the longevity pay and happily go sit reserve in MCO, MDW, wherever...

I don't think I'd be in the minority, either. Our flight crews aren't nearly as negative as you think we are, except when it comes to being the longest major airline in mediation in recent history with a management group demanding concessions after the most profitable decade of the airline's entire history.

Give us SWA's contract, a management team that didn't constantly reinterpret it to our detriment, and furlough protection? You'd see a completely changed group dynamic. Not hard to understand...
 
PCL- you're right- it's all ego.... wtf? - who would f>ck you if SWA bought AT? Who would you fight? Would you hold a grudge and fight every original swa hire? Would you actively separate you and original AT pilots from the SWA fold? Or would you join the team?

You guys have REAL complaints at AT that would disappear if SWA bought you.

Think about that.

Do you know how NOT to complain?

A staple isn't going to happen. But at you're seniority, under arbitration, you'd probably be at the bottom with a decent percentage of AT pilots.

I wonder if you'd ever accept that that would be a good thing over your current situation.

Gulfstream. Pinnacle. Air Tran. -- again- why such an affection for companies that want to f>ck you?

It would be very counter culture for SWA to buy AT just to furlough their bottom guys.
 
I think you're wrong, Lear. We'd have at least a third to a half that would be immediately pissed off with anything remotely resembling a staple, and another third that would be just as pissed off within a year of the integration as the joy of the pay raise wears off. It would be a mess, and rightfully so. No employee group should ever have to deal with anything less than a fair and equitable integration.
 
A staple isn't going to happen. But at you're seniority, under arbitration, you'd probably be at the bottom with a decent percentage of AT pilots.

Then that would not be a fair and equitable integration. In a merger such as AirTran and SWA (one that I don't think will ever happen, BTW), a straight ratio is the only fair way to handle it. Our operations are incredibly similar, with some hub flying but lots of point-to-point. The equipment is identical, and the only international flying being brought to the table is from AirTran (you've agreed to outsource it). In that scenario, there is no justifiable basis for anything less than a ratio, since you don't have widebodies or international routes to keep out of range of our bidders.
 
A straight ratio?

Maybe- but I doubt most would agree- it'll be some hybrid - it won't be a vast number stapled- but it's my guess that probably 10-30%. what I would agree is that there would be 7400 different opinions and any take or leave it presented by either union shouldn't happen- arbitration. Straight line ratio though would benefit AT the most bc of a younger pilot group. Who bought who would enter in and I just don't think it would be judged like that.

I agree- AT is good company and it would make us both stronger to acquire you.

But it would not be a merger. Remember that.

And answer the question: would you ever be part of the team? Could you ever leave the 'fight' and be happy in your chosen career?
 
I think you're wrong, Lear. We'd have at least a third to a half that would be immediately pissed off with anything remotely resembling a staple, and another third that would be just as pissed off within a year of the integration as the joy of the pay raise wears off. It would be a mess, and rightfully so. No employee group should ever have to deal with anything less than a fair and equitable integration.
Oh I'm not disagreeing with you, I don't think a staple would be appropriate, either, but the acquiring company has a funny way of deciding what is "appropriate" or not...

I'm just thinking of the percentages right now, which I believe are close to what you said at first... about 1/3 would be angry, and the other 2/3 would be telling the MEC to sign it as long as there was a no-furlough clause built into it and wouldn't get irritated until a few years later when there's little upward movement and they're stuck on reserve for 3-4 years.

Like others have said, doubt this will ever happen, but if it did, I bet the MEC and LEC's email and phone would be off the hook with the majority of the pilots telling them to "git 'er done". I think the Frontier pilots are ready to kneecap their MEC at this point... Lessons learned?
 
But it would not be a merger. Remember that.

In the eyes of an arbitrator handling an SLI, that doesn't make any difference. Your best argument is the age difference, and that may get you some favor with an arbitrator, but not much. We would have very good arguments for something very close to a straight ratio.

And answer the question: would you ever be part of the team? Could you ever leave the 'fight' and be happy in your chosen career?

Certainly. At SWA's rates, I would be one of the guys dropping half of the month's flying and only doing a couple of trips each month. It still wouldn't be my kind of flying, but at least I'd have a bunch of time off.

I would be much happier keeping AirTran as a separate entity or merging with Alaska, though.

I think the Frontier pilots are ready to kneecap their MEC at this point... Lessons learned?

They made the right move.
 

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