New Airtran Jetconnect?WTF

[jdubya]

Anon is right, but the economics are gone with the rj's. I would not be too concerned with this. Both companies are scrambling for income, but if the rj's do show up it won't last long imo. You'll see a lot of posts on here because regional guys will grab ahold of anything that smells of something better for them.....not gonna happen.

 

[planejockey]

What?? SkyWest pays for everyting, and you get connecting passengers.. sounds like a win-win for everyone!!

People like you make me sick. Thanks for killing everyone's future as*hole.

 

[PCL_128]

Given the time that you guys have been in negotiations, the NC along with all the lawyers you can muster, should be emphatically appealing to the NMB for help. They should be asking for hyper mediation and up to and including a release. I don't know that any other U.S. airline has gone this long into negotiations. With Skywest in the picture the stakes just went up.

Several airlines have gone longer in negotiations, one of them is longer right now, in fact, but that's beside the point. The real point is that the NMB is not going to release us right now. We have only 9 sections TA'd, with dozens upon dozens of open issues in the remaining sections. The NMB won't release you under those circumstances, and will actually get mad if you request a release when you know you stand no chance of getting it. Instead, what the NMB will do is start making negotiations a pain in the ass. For example, negotiations next week for AirTran will be in Washington, DC instead of in Atlanta or Orlando where it is convenient for the company. If things continue to not move, the NMB can order negotiations to take place in Seattle. Or Anchorage. Or Hong Kong, for that matter. The point is that they can make things a huge pain in the ass, which is designed to spur the parties to reach agreement on the smaller items. After that is done, then they can release you, because most of the items are closed out and the remaining items might be able to get settled during super-mediation during the cooling off period, which is what they really want. When they give you a release, they don't want a work stoppage, they want a deal. They can't get a deal from a release if there are too many open issues on the table to finish out in that 30-day cooling off period.

 

[andyd]

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

Last time I checked CMR doesn't sell tickets so they weren't "comair" passengers, they were DAL passengers and we are free to re-route them as we see fit on any of our contracted labor or on our own equipment.

 

[pdub20s]

Given the time that you guys have been in negotiations, the NC along with all the lawyers you can muster, should be emphatically appealing to the NMB for help. They should be asking for hyper mediation and up to and including a release. I don't know that any other U.S. airline has gone this long into negotiations. With Skywest in the picture the stakes just went up.

The type of management and their styles should be highlighted to help your case. The MEC needs to get with it before the train leaves the station. Once the first 70 seat airplane arrives, it's all downhill from there. I believe that by then you will be too late. At that point management may find a loophole to replace 717s with RJs. Or at the very least, a good portion of them.

Just remember, the same advice was given to the Midwest guys. To their demise, their MEC stood by and watched it all happen. Hoeksema came out smelling like roses. He'll never have to work another day in his life, what does he care. I think more could have been done. If your pilots aren't involved and on the MEC's butt, it's time to start. Your career may depend on it.

Very well put. What went on over at Midwest was the first thing that came to mind. You AT pilots better come out swinging. All eyes are on you guys.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

Cost of you paying for your job at ASA= $8500
Price of you forming a new screen name on FI = $10

Listening to you give advice about flying struck work.......PRICELESS!

This from a guy who sued to try to steal flying.

 

[MINIME]

Several airlines have gone longer in negotiations, one of them is longer right now, in fact, but that's beside the point. The real point is that the NMB is not going to release us right now. We have only 9 sections TA'd, with dozens upon dozens of open issues in the remaining sections. The NMB won't release you under those circumstances, and will actually get mad if you request a release when you know you stand no chance of getting it.

Thanks for the clarification PCL.

However some of this is concerning. Using your stated patterns by which the NMB works, if I was a CEO I could keep you in negotiations and without a contract till kingdom come. All I have to do is drag my feet as long as I can. If I stall, slow down negotiation dates, never agree to anything, I'd know that you would not be able to strike. Because you have to meet that criteria of having most items TAd before a release.

This may be so. I believe however, that a good case from a MEC and its lawyers could prove to the NMB, that this particular negotiation cycle, against this particular management, may not fall under normal practices set by other airlines. This management may actively be trying to use the system of stalling to its advantage and thus not negotiating in good faith. Add to that, the appearance of them trying to outsource your flying while you're distracted in negotiations. This type of appeal may stand a chance of having the NMB's attention.

What you say?

 

[ATLboeing]

If they want to go that route (drag their feet even longer with no progress) then I hope the mediator tells them, "OK, if significant progress isn't made in the next session, we will meet next week at a picnic table in Bagdad."

 

[maxblast72]

I'd like to know how the Skywest pilots feel about the possibility that we may end up on strike and them being told to fly struck work...and if they would, being non-union.
Nothing against the pilots of Skywest at this point, I know it was our management that made this decision, but I'm just curious how a non-union group would handle that situation.

Just a little back of the envelope calcuating, but Airtran flies around 6 billion ASMs a quarter. If Skywest could get 11 hrs a day utilization, it would take around 300 CRJ-200s to replace all the Airtran aircraft. Not to mention, Skywest better get hustling putting in some aux tanks for the west coast/Caribbean flying.

Don't worry guys, a strike will shut down Airtran Airways real fast. Time to get serious about convincing management we will go on strike. When SPC says jump, guys need to jump. Management hates the bad publicy from the events planned by our SPC.

 

[PCL_128]

Several airlines have gone longer in negotiations, one of them is longer right now, in fact, but that's beside the point. The real point is that the NMB is not going to release us right now. We have only 9 sections TA'd, with dozens upon dozens of open issues in the remaining sections. The NMB won't release you under those circumstances, and will actually get mad if you request a release when you know you stand no chance of getting it.

Thanks for the clarification PCL.

However some of this is concerning. Using your stated patterns by which the NMB works, if I was a CEO I could keep you in negotiations and without a contract till kingdom come. All I have to do is drag my feet as long as I can. If I stall, slow down negotiation dates, never agree to anything, I'd know that you would not be able to strike. Because you have to meet that criteria of having most items TAd before a release.

This may be so. I believe however, that a good case from a MEC and its lawyers could prove to the NMB, that this particular negotiation cycle, against this particular management, may not fall under normal practices set by other airlines. This management may actively be trying to use the system of stalling to its advantage and thus not negotiating in good faith. Add to that, the appearance of them trying to outsource your flying while you're distracted in negotiations. This type of appeal may stand a chance of having the NMB's attention.

What you say?

This is the power that the NMB has to make things miserable for managements that don't want to bargain in good faith:

If they want to go that route (drag their feet even longer with no progress) then I hope the mediator tells them, "OK, if significant progress isn't made in the next session, we will meet next week at a picnic table in Bagdad."

It only takes a few weeks of meetings in Anchorage for a management team to start moving on the smaller items.

 

[Jar Jar]

prediction: mesa pilots vote in 40% cut in payrates, work rule concessions to shift crj-200s to airtran.

 

[Tar Heel]

prediction: mesa pilots vote in 40% cut in payrates, work rule concessions to shift crj-200s to airtran.

No. Sadly more like 200 more pilots gone by April 2010. But how does that even relate to this topic? How long is the contract for? I had read on APC that there was an amendable date in early 2010 where Air Tran could opt out of the deal. Any truth to that?

 

[stall022]

No. Sadly more like 200 more pilots gone by April 2010. But how does that even relate to this topic? How long is the contract for? I had read on APC that there was an amendable date in early 2010 where Air Tran could opt out of the deal. Any truth to that?

The contract will be for however long it takes to whipsaw and threaten the Airtran pilots into signing a crap contract after 5 years of talks OR a strike, In which case SkyWest will be used to fly the struck work.

 

[roughneck]

I had read on APC that there was an amendable date in early 2010 where Air Tran could opt out of the deal. Any truth to that?

That is the SWAPA pilots won't allow RJ codeshare contengency plan in the event SWA pulls the trigger on AirTran.

 

[jonjuan]

That is the SWAPA pilots won't allow RJ codeshare contengency plan in the event SWA pulls the trigger on AirTran.

Pulls the trigger or pulls the plug?

 

[maxblast72]

Pulls the trigger or pulls the plug?

Considering SWA only overlaps directly with Airtran on 15% of Airtran's total ASMs, I don't know how SWA will "pull the plug" on Airtran.

 

[FLYHY]

Who allowed the RJs to start operations way back when?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Who allowed the RJs to start operations way back when?

Pilots who screwed up.

 

[Floatplane]

The contract will be for however long it takes to whipsaw and threaten the Airtran pilots into signing a crap contract after 5 years of talks OR a strike, In which case SkyWest will be used to fly the struck work.

The really sad part is Skywest Pilots are excited because AirTran lacks scope and they are hoping to get bigger aircraft in the future to fly on behalf of AirTran. I actually had a Skywest Pilot say that to me while jumpseating on them. I almost $hit myself when I heard the captain say this. I can't think of a more crystal clear way to highlight the importance of scope. The threat contract flying and regional carriers pose to mainline jobs has never been more evident.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Pilots who screwed up.

Yes, the DAL MEC's blowoff of the very concerned ASA pilot group in 1985. You're at DAL, aren't you Peanuckle?