200 more furloughs at USairways

[waveflyer]

On the East maybe.. but what about on the West? All the way back to 2007?

The last new hire class out west was very early 2005. Hiring consistently....and then the USAIr purchase...

 

[HAL]

The last west class still flying after the furlough is somewere around April or May of 2004.

 

[HomerJ]

As an outsider, a serious question. What kind of shape was AWA in when they merged? Would they have survived without it, or were they in USAir kind of shape?

 

[MCDU]

As an outsider, a serious question. What kind of shape was AWA in when they merged? Would they have survived without it, or were they in USAir kind of shape?

AWA was upgrading and hiring. Then they bought USAIR that took huge sacrifices to survive with all their cash. If AWA did not buy AAA, they would not have had to furlough and AWA would still be upgrading. AWA was a powerhouse, that made alot of money back then. You should have seen how many pilots AWA were hiring. Now they are tied to the Titanic.

DOH stinks. So what that a pilot with 19 yrs. gets put behind a newhire. AWA was hiring and a strong viable airline that never would have furloughed due to strong hubs in LAS and PHX.

M

 

[xanderman]

AWA was upgrading and hiring. Then they bought USAIR that took huge sacrifices to survive with all their cash. If AWA did not buy AAA, they would not have had to furlough and AWA would still be upgrading. AWA was a powerhouse, that made alot of money back then. You should have seen how many pilots AWA were hiring. Now they are tied to the Titanic.

DOH stinks. So what that a pilot with 19 yrs. gets put behind a newhire. AWA was hiring and a strong viable airline that never would have furloughed due to strong hubs in LAS and PHX.

M

Pretty close MCDU! Pretty close. The only thing you missed is that is that AAA was neck deep in furloughs already. The next step was liquidation...

 

[get2flyin]

AWA was upgrading and hiring. Then they bought USAIR that took huge sacrifices to survive with all their cash. If AWA did not buy AAA, they would not have had to furlough and AWA would still be upgrading. AWA was a powerhouse, that made alot of money back then. You should have seen how many pilots AWA were hiring. Now they are tied to the Titanic.

DOH stinks. So what that a pilot with 19 yrs. gets put behind a newhire. AWA was hiring and a strong viable airline that never would have furloughed due to strong hubs in LAS and PHX.

M

Congratulations, MCDU! I'm glad you've finally come to your senses and agreed that a new hire should be senior to a furloughed pilot, even if that furloughee was originally hired 19 years ago.

 

[Hpilot]

AWA was upgrading and hiring. Then they bought USAIR that took huge sacrifices to survive with all their cash. If AWA did not buy AAA, they would not have had to furlough and AWA would still be upgrading. AWA was a powerhouse, that made alot of money back then. You should have seen how many pilots AWA were hiring. Now they are tied to the Titanic.

DOH stinks. So what that a pilot with 19 yrs. gets put behind a newhire. AWA was hiring and a strong viable airline that never would have furloughed due to strong hubs in LAS and PHX.

M

1) Upgrades and hiring: Yes, 20 a month
2) Bought AAA with cash: Nope, used AWA's credit
3) Making money: Yes, with new aircraft being ordered. Of course those aircraft went out East when they arrived, so the lowest paid air w************************* in the industry could fly them.

 

[OurMoney1]

There wont be a merger and I dont subscribe to the realignment rumors. LCC is in trouble and I hardly see CAL or AMR buying something that they can pick up in bancruptcy court. CAL is getting cozy with UAL again and American is prepping for a show down with DL over JAL.

LCC is in peril...holy jesus....will this be its 9th life?

 

[reepicheep]

AMR doesn't need a merge with usair they already have American Eagle; why buy another feeder airline which is what usair is at heart.

 

[Eagle757shark]

AWA was upgrading and hiring. Then they bought USAIR that took huge sacrifices to survive with all their cash. If AWA did not buy AAA, they would not have had to furlough and AWA would still be upgrading. AWA was a powerhouse, that made alot of money back then. You should have seen how many pilots AWA were hiring. Now they are tied to the Titanic.

DOH stinks. So what that a pilot with 19 yrs. gets put behind a newhire. AWA was hiring and a strong viable airline that never would have furloughed due to strong hubs in LAS and PHX.

M

MCDU you are WRONG!!! FOLKS lets get the FACTS: America West DID NOT BUY US Airways!!! STOP saying that because you begin to show your ignorance. Airbus and Air Canada put up billions of dollars to bring America West and US Airways together in a merger. America West DID NOT have billions of dollars to buy US Airways! America West like US Airways needed the ATSB loans after 9/11 to stay afloat.(A Government Bailout) Had they not received the loans, America West would be history today. Even Doug Parker said that! I don't have a dog in this fight, but I at least know the facts! Yes as a result of the merger, America West management stayed on to run the merged company and the headquarters were shifted to Tempe, AZ. But America West did not buy US Airways. As far as America West being a POWERHOUSE, a powerhouse of what? America West repeatedly was being dogged for their poor on-time performance and were catching heat from the local media in Phoenix for their poor quality of service. Amercia West was desperately trying to find a merger partner and sought AirTran, and ATA as merger partners before merging with US Airways. So MCDU lets slow your role and deflate the my privates are bigger than yours ego here. America West needed this merger as Doug Parker said to move forward.

 

[get2flyin]

MCDU you are WRONG!!! FOLKS lets get the FACTS: America West DID NOT BUY US Airways!!! STOP saying that because you begin to show your ignorance. Airbus and Air Canada put up billions of dollars to bring America West and US Airways together in a merger. America West DID NOT have billions of dollars to buy US Airways! America West like US Airways needed the ATSB loans after 9/11 to stay afloat. Had they not received the loans, America West would be history today. Even Doug Parker said that! I don't have a dog in this fight, but I at least know the facts! Yes as a result of the merger, America West management stayed on to run the merged company and the headquarters were shifted to Tempe, AZ. But America West did not buy US Airways. As far as America West being a POWERHOUSE, a powerhouse of what? America West repeatedly was being dogged for their poor on-time performance and were catching heat from the local media in Phoenix for their poor quality of service. Amercia West was desperately trying to find a merger partner and sought AirTran, and ATA as merger partners before merging with US Airways. So MCDU lets slow your role and deflate the my privates are bigger than yours ego here. America West needed this merger as Doug Parker said to move forward.

MCDU, are you going to take that? Tell him how wrong he is. LOL

OK shark..before you post next time, you and MCDU and the rest of the USAir dreamers need to schedule a play date and decide if you're all going to be sarcastic or if you're all going to spew drivel about AWA on FI. When you go different directions and then end up arguing with each other...it's just really sad. :laugh:

 

[Fly-n-hi]

America West needed this merger as Doug Parker said to move forward.

Well if Parker said it that means it must be true.

 

[weasel_lips]

Before the merger AWA was THE place to be. Folks were leaving UPS, FEX, SWA in droves and beating down the doors to get in.

 

[Sandhawk]

Before the merger AWA was THE place to be. Folks were leaving UPS, FEX, SWA in droves and beating down the doors to get in.

No, UPS, FEX, SWA (and AWA) is where all of the furloughed (and active) Useless Crashways pilots were trying to get jobs at since their "Cream of the Crop" job was rapidly circling the bowl headed for the drain along with all of the other turds..........

 

[Deadalus]

No, UPS, FEX, SWA (and AWA) is where all of the furloughed (and active) Useless Crashways pilots were trying to get jobs at since their "Cream of the Crop" job was rapidly circling the bowl headed for the drain along with all of the other turds..........

Yep, and those that couldn't get on at those outfits were coming to AWA. Why is that? Because they new at least AWA WOULD STILL BE AROUND.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

AWA was upgrading and hiring. Then they bought USAIR that took huge sacrifices to survive with all their cash. If AWA did not buy AAA, they would not have had to furlough and AWA would still be upgrading. AWA was a powerhouse, that made alot of money back then. You should have seen how many pilots AWA were hiring. Now they are tied to the Titanic.

DOH stinks. So what that a pilot with 19 yrs. gets put behind a newhire. AWA was hiring and a strong viable airline that never would have furloughed due to strong hubs in LAS and PHX.

M

Powerhouse?? ATSB loans?? maybe that part slipped your mind......

I have no dog in the fight, I just call it like I see it.

 

[TWA Dude]

I have no dog in the fight, I just call it like I see it.

Please re-read Get2Flyin's post above.

 

[Eagle757shark]

MCDU, are you going to take that? Tell him how wrong he is. LOL

OK shark..before you post next time, you and MCDU and the rest of the USAir dreamers need to schedule a play date and decide if you're all going to be sarcastic or if you're all going to spew drivel about AWA on FI. When you go different directions and then end up arguing with each other...it's just really sad. :laugh:

LOL....Thanks! But I'm not interested in getting into a fight with anyone. I think we all get tired of folks stating false information as MCDU was. America West did not buy US Airways and that is a FACT! America West and US Airways are the only two major airlines that had to rely on ATSB government money to stay afloat, FACT! The two companies had a great opportunity to take advantage of their strengths and now it seems they are beginning to squander that. What a shame. Now as far as America West pre-US Airways being a powerhouse....hmmm, I will let you guys have fun with that! One more thing, I don't have a dog in this fight which means I don't work at US Airways.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Parker only wanted to get his hands on US Air's source of cash - east coast hubs. The slave-wage contract was a nice bonus. Who cares about costs, when you can slash and burn to keep your head above water.

The problem is when you start messin' with the real assets - east coast hub gates. Once they're gone - forget it. I wouldn't be surprised if WN hasn't already claimed the BOS gates for themselves.

People aren't worth anything, but gates are priceless - or so it seems.

 

[Whine Lover]

Before the merger AWA was THE place to be. Folks were leaving UPS, FEX, SWA in droves and beating down the doors to get in.

THAT is some funny ********************e right there....

 

[Cowboy75]

Before the merger AWA was THE place to be. Folks were leaving UPS, FEX, SWA in droves and beating down the doors to get in.

usair was a minor major with a lousy LEGACY. Never considered them.

 

[Deadalus]

LOL....Thanks! But I'm not interested in getting into a fight with anyone. I think we all get tired of folks stating false information as MCDU was. America West did not buy US Airways and that is a FACT! America West and US Airways are the only two major airlines that had to rely on ATSB government money to stay afloat, FACT! The two companies had a great opportunity to take advantage of their strengths and now it seems they are beginning to squander that. What a shame. Now as far as America West pre-US Airways being a powerhouse....hmmm, I will let you guys have fun with that! One more thing, I don't have a dog in this fight which means I don't work at US Airways.

Why don't you try reading a business article about it. They usually say something to the effect, "don't kid yourself this was not a merger it was an acquisition. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Get a clue before you speak.

 

[MCDU]

Why don't you try reading a business article about it. They usually say something to the effect, "don't kid yourself this was not a merger it was an acquisition. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Get a clue before you speak.

Thats right. AWA bought AAA. USair pilots should be happy they have jobs. Just like the few Midwest pilots that are left. They should be happy Republic saved them. Screw guys with 18 years. 2005 is the year that counts. DOH means nothing. Its all about timing.

M

 

[Captzaahlie]

Thats right. AWA bought AAA. USair pilots should be happy they have jobs. Just like the few Midwest pilots that are left. They should be happy Republic saved them. Screw guys with 18 years. 2005 is the year that counts. DOH means nothing. Its all about timing.

M

You finally got it?

 

[Captzaahlie]

USAPA President's Message



October 29, 2009



Fellow Pilots,

It is with a great deal of frustration and outrage that we continue to observe this management’s dismantling of our airline. The recent announcement of the sale of the 190s, coupled with yesterday’s announcement that Management intends to close long-standing pilot domiciles, certainly feeds the enormous mistrust that many of us share as we entrust the future of our airline to their managerial skill or lack thereof. The reasons for this mistrust are innumerable, but center on at least a couple of key areas.

First are the vast inconsistencies in their statements and actions. Let’s review some of the cavalier representations of the 190 sale event: first they told us the airplanes were not for sale; then they told us they were exploring the sale but that it was about taking capacity out of the U.S. market, with Lufthansa as the target customer; then we were assured that it wasn’t about liquidity it was about capacity. Now what we know is that all of those things were fabricated. There will be no capacity reduction; they have merely replaced this branded capacity with a set of pilots from another airline. Now they want us to believe, even though a fleet of 25 190s was too small to keep, that a fleet of 15 isn’t, and that they will keep this fleet deployed elsewhere.

The second key area of mistrust in this management group is their wholesale disregard for the effect of the uprooting of the lives of our pilots and their families. The sale of the 190s will have great impact on a substantial number of our pilots, many of whom have just returned from furlough, meaning they quit other jobs for the opportunity to come back to this company. The closing of three crew bases will be equally and powerfully impactive on our families as well. How could it be that this company could be so disinterested in our well being that they would fail, even on a cursory level, to try to work with the union ahead of time to address these issues and find solutions? We need to be honest with ourselves and recognize who these managers are as we evaluate our level of commitment to them. They have no plan for this airline, no vision for success. It is nothing more than crisis management while they bleed the coffers dry with their personal enrichment programs, all at our expense. I will bring a discussion item to the next Board of Pilot Representatives meeting to determine whether or not to seek new management at US Airways.

Further, it appears Management is either lying to the employees or lying to the public and investors. Take a few moments to compare their remarks and characterizations of the state of the company to the employees versus their characterization to the investment community:

Investors – strong demand, quickly improving revenue environment, not hedged and happy with that.

Employees – fuel spiking, economic crisis, doom and gloom.

The disparity reminds me of the very remarkable variance of Dave Siegel’s characterizations of the state of the airline and retirement plans to the same two groups back in the fall of 2002; with any fortune, he and his compatriots will pay for that contravention.

The product of these breaches of trust is that our company will never prosper until the employees are pulling in the same direction. I have had repeated conversations with them about how to make that happen, commonly asking them, “What can we do together, today, to get the employees working in same direction as Management to make our company profitable?” Each and every one of these overtures has been summarily dismissed by all levels of senior management. The most recent example of this was my attempt to have a very small and private meeting with Mr. Parker while I was in Phoenix this week to think through this fundamental question - this effort was rebuffed by Mr. Parker. I can only conclude that he just doesn’t care what we think or how we are impacted. He just doesn’t care. It is no coincidence that we are categorized as a cost center on our pay report.

Here’s what we can do about this.

The first and most important thing that we can do is to evaluate our working relationship with the Company. We have a management that deliberately designed their compensation package to profit wildly from our efforts to make the airline run on time, all while we toil under bankruptcy-era wages. In the process, they fattened the schedule creating a grossly inefficient airline specifically designed to enrich themselves. Each of us must take responsibility for enabling their engorgement at our personal expense, and the expense of the airline as a whole. Stop responding to their unending cries of corporate impoverishment. If they can’t run this airline with the employees working at such a tremendous cost advantage to their competitors then perhaps they need to move along. Of course, as we have witnessed in their attempt to peddle themselves to investors last year, no one wants them.

Second, your union will aggressively enforce our collective bargaining agreement. The base closure is subject to certain provisions in LOA 96 (the Transition Agreement) - the Company has an obligation to demonstrate a cost savings to the union from these closures and we will absolutely ensure their compliance with these contractual provisions. In the meantime, expect them to take the usual path of taking now with the expectation that we can grieve it later. So far we have only had an opportunity for a cursory financial analysis of these base closures; you may be sure that we will scrutinize the data. In addition, the minimum fleet and block hour commitment represent floors that they cannot penetrate as they try yet again to “shrink to profitability”. This management group is depending on their belief that the line pilots will not hold them accountable – each of us must. Prove them wrong.

This is our airline. Managements come and go, but this company belongs to those who built it and who will work here for our careers. They will not pry it from our hands. Sooner or later the scourge that is the dismantling of our airline by this management will end. We have the power to show Management who this airline belongs to. Ultimately the pilots will decide if they have tired of covering for and subsidizing what is demonstrably the most inefficient management group in the industry.





Sincerely,



Mike Cleary
President
USAPA

 

[ex j-41]

At what point is RAH a competitor with US Airways and Parker continually doing business with them is a conflict of interest?
US Airways is established in LGA, PHL, CLT, MCO... why are they shrinking when Jet Blue and Southwest are expanding? If US Airways is truely losing money its because of their leadership. DP is way out of his league. This company needs to be employee owned.

 

[Eagle757shark]

Why don't you try reading a business article about it. They usually say something to the effect, "don't kid yourself this was not a merger it was an acquisition. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Get a clue before you speak.

Hey Deadalus, I do have a clue and I speak the truth. What business article are you referring to? First of all people who don't know the truth will assume America West purchased US Airways, it just ain't so. Go talk to your own CEO and he will enlightened you to the truth. I forgot, you want to believe your own truth........Worthless!

 

[Sandhawk]

DP is way out of his league. This company needs to be employee owned.

Jeebus Criminy - can you imagine 3000+ angry eastwipes trying to all be CEO ???


:smash:

 

[Metrojet]

Haven't you guys figured it out yet? On Jan 1, 2010 - LOA93 and the east pilot's contract is amendable. That means that USAPA will be filing a grievance about LOA 93 and the end date of the pay rates (where the 18% cut in hourly pay rates) revert back and then becomes amendable - and this is what the company disputes. So now - if the company loses the grievance and has to revert back to the original pay rates - they have additional leverage in which to negotiate the rates ie - we will recall all pilots if USAPA agrees to not file a grievance or in the event the company loses the grievances.

It is typical scare tactics - shock and awe with the announcement.

Metrojet

 

[Thebadcat1313]

Hey Deadalus, I do have a clue and I speak the truth. What business article are you referring to? First of all people who don't know the truth will assume America West purchased US Airways, it just ain't so. Go talk to your own CEO and he will enlightened you to the truth. I forgot, you want to believe your own truth........Worthless!

AWA purchased AAA in the same way most of us buy a home or car. You go out and use your good credit to secure financing and buy the thing you want. For God's sake, why is this such a difficult concept? It sure wasn't AAA going out and borrowing money on THEIR good name to put the deal together.