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Sleepy NWA pilots?

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I don't think there's going to be any sort of weird outside circumstances with this one. Have a field day, boys. 15 pages at least.

"Don't let me wake up and catch you sleeping" comes to mind...
 
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NWA188

Looks like they took the track down. Smart on ALPA's part on whoever. According to flightaware they overflew MSP on roughly a 080 heading. Went past EAU and made the turn around Chippewa Falls, WI (home of Leinenkugels brewery).

They made a wide turn that brought them in north of the cities and had a long downwind to land 35. We certainly don't know all the details and I wish all the best to the crew. Could have happened to any of us.
 
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The flight track is still available, you just have to select Oct 21. Does the Airbus just track existing heading when it reaches the last fix on an arrival? It looks like they hit MONKY and then just continued on that track?
 
Here's a few things to consider before ripping into these guys.

1) What was their alternate? - Looks sort of like a turn at Twinz intersection. Maybe they had an alternate of GRB, MSN, LSE?

2) Runway change as they got close to the airport? We are still down one parallel runway in MSP. When they change the airport plan, things get backed up as you know.

3) Maybe the Center controller was "on the landline?" LOL

4) Maybe they fell asleep. I hope that is not the case. Because at this point it would be a hater field day on here. Especially since none of those haters has ever walked the dog during any of their long duty days.

Everything is conjecture until the facts come out. A look at the big picture, which the media hates to do, would be in order here before the Monday morning quarterbacking starts.
 
Fatigue? If so, 2009 may be the year the FAA turns the corner on the fatigue issue and gets some rulemaking that makes sense. Lots of incidents and one big accident this year due to fatigue.
 
RedRum said:
Here's a few things to consider before ripping into these guys.

4) Maybe they fell asleep. I hope that is not the case. Because at this point it would be a hater field day on here. Especially since none of those haters has ever walked the dog during any of their long duty days.

Everything is conjecture until the facts come out. A look at the big picture, which the media hates to do, would be in order here before the Monday morning quarterbacking starts.
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Would you have had the same opinion if it was a Mesa flight?
 
Looking at the track data, FL370 over Wisconsin. 3,000 FPM right 270 deg turn to head back. Looks like a chop and drop 100nm past the airport.
 
Seems awfully gutsy for the company to so quickly blame it on weather. Hope they can back that claim up when the 'rest of the story' eventually comes out.
 
StopNTSing said:
Seems awfully gutsy for the company to so quickly blame it on weather. Hope they can back that claim up when the 'rest of the story' eventually comes out.
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I think they reported that based on the Flight/Gate status on NWA.com. NWA.com was reporting the delay based on a late departure from SAN, probably due to an EDCT from traffic congestion in MSP.
 
labatt said:
Could have happened to any of us.
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Speak for yourself man....thats just pathetic. When pilots start to turn down legs because they're tired, things will start to change. They keep doing it, they'll just end up killing more innocent people in another fatigue related crash.

Those pilots need to get hanged for this. Start setting examples before crashes start setting examples.
 
densoo said:
Fatigue? If so, 2009 may be the year the FAA turns the corner on the fatigue issue and gets some rulemaking that makes sense. Lots of incidents and one big accident this year due to fatigue.
Click to expand...

Thats right. Its been a long time coming and the FAA has killed enough people because of their slow reactions to aviation problems.
 
Fly91 said:
Thats right. Its been a long time coming and the FAA has killed enough people because of their slow reactions to aviation problems.
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Agreed. They should be embarrased a bunch of dim-wit legislators are now doing their job for them. I will conceed its a bit scary that the FAA knows about the problem and refuses to do anything, and the congress knows absolutely nothing and is acting swiftly.
 
Don't you think the flight attendants were curious as to why they hadn't begun a descent for over an hour late? I have had F/A's call up and ask what time are we landing, especially if we haven't done a PA in a while.

Also curious - I can understand missing a few radio calls, or not hearing any communications on the freq for awhile before wondering if you missed a freq change - but to fly for over 100 miles without anyone checking on the ND for position - especially when you should be in the "descent/arrival mindset" - I find it hard to believe it is the result of an heated discussion.

Will wait to hear the "rest of the story", and see if fatigue played a factor.
 
At least the guys added some humor to the ntsb questioning by saying they were arguing policy.

Does lying change DAL's punishment toward pilots? Serious question.
 
FishandFly said:
At least the guys added some humor to the ntsb questioning by saying they were arguing policy.

Does lying change DAL's punishment toward pilots? Serious question.
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Yep, lie and you're gone. Play ball and they are typically very lenient.
 
FishandFly said:
Does lying change DAL's punishment toward pilots? Serious question.
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Absolutely!

We are still operating on the NWA certificate and have the NASAP program in place. Since this was obviously not a sole-source report there will likely be penalties for this crew such as a letter of warning or letter correction in their FAA files. When all said and done, they should be able to keep their license and jobs. I'm assuming they both filed a NASAP report, if not, well...

NOW, IF they were found lying or fabricating evidence then any and all NASAP protections are out the window and the Feds are free to have a field day.

Hoping for the best and no more speculation from this pilot.
 
"The crew stated they were in a heated discussion over airline policy and they lost situational awareness. The Safety Board is scheduling an interview with the crew."

WTF
 

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