USAir 1549 CVR transcript

[ackattacker]

If the nose was below the horizon and the crew never disconnected the auto-thrust, then idle thrust would have been commanded with the trust levers in the climb detent. That is the difference between moving them to TOGA and leaving them in the auto-thrust range.

The climb thrust detent is an auto-thrust active range setting. If the nose was down and the speed higher than the speed target the system would command idle thrust. Moving the levers to TOGA would send a signal commanding full thrust to the EECs. There is a possibility that the #1 engine may have been capable of producing thrust but it was never given a command to do so. This is the point of most posters.

Personally I don't think it would have made a difference but we may never know for sure.

The FDR data shows the N1 target and N1 command by the EEC along with the actual N1. You can see that the N1 target remains constant until the TLA is reduced, but the actual N1 on both engines drops dramatically. Airspeed remains at or below speed at impact.

I think the FDR data shows that the EEC's did NOT roll back the power. The EEC's were still commanding climb thrust but the engines simply could not comply and the EEC's will not simply dump more fuel into an engine that refuses to spool up. If they did, the engines would have simply melted, the EGT's were already at 900C...

 

[ableone]

The FDR data shows the N1 target and N1 command by the EEC along with the actual N1. You can see that the N1 target remains constant until the TLA is reduced, but the actual N1 on both engines drops dramatically.

Is this a commanded N1 value or a value corresponding to the TLA donut?

If it's just the donut it doesn't mean anything.

Airspeed remains at or below speed at impact.

By this time the thrust lever had been retarded to idle in anticipation of an airstart.

I think the FDR data shows that the EEC's did NOT roll back the power. The EEC's were still commanding climb thrust but the engines simply could not comply and the EEC's will not simply dump more fuel into an engine that refuses to spool up. If they did, the engines would have simply melted, the EGT's were already at 900C...

EGT values can be high even at very low thrust settings. Take a look at them the next time you are flying on a 38C day. They will often be very close to max value even while at idle. Excessive EGT is one of the few parameters that the EEC does not protect against.

 

[ackattacker]

Is this a commanded N1 value or a value corresponding to the TLA donut?

The FDR data shows both the overall "target" value, and the "commanded" value for each engine. Take a look at the data... I'm no NTSB expert but you can see that the commanded value for engine 1 remains constant until the TLA is reduced, then comes back up again when the TLA is brought up again. You can also see clearly that when the TLA is brought back to idle, N1 on engine 1 drops from about 35 to around 25. Then when the thrust lever is brought back up again in stages, it goes back to around 35 but won't go any higher despite the TLA being advanced further. That's just all that the engine had in it.

The commanded N1 for engine 2 does roll back about 14 seconds after impact with the birds. Presumably this is due the the N2 falling below a threshold value (seems to be around 50%)

 

[B-atch]

All you "tools" that get off on dissing Sully and Jeff can scream and rant till you turn BLUE!!! The fact is this crew acted exceptionally well under incredible circumstances. Thank your lucky stars, that some of you were not in that cockpit that day.....I suspect the end result might have been different.

You've had 10 months to Dissect and analyze all the data and cocktail information. Even a 10 year old with access to Google can do that. These PILOTS had 3.20 minutes to make a decision and execute their plan!! I for one call it REMARCABLE...

Next time you go dissing Sully and Jeff for your own personal reasons, remember that these men have done more for their passengers, crew, and our profession that most of you will do in 3 life times.. Good day!

 

[timmay]

All you "tools" that get off on dissing Sully and Jeff can scream and rant till you turn BLUE!!! The fact is this crew acted exceptionally well under incredible circumstances. Thank your lucky stars, that some of you were not in that cockpit that day.....I suspect the end result might have been different.

You've had 10 months to Dissect and analyze all the data and cocktail information. Even a 10 year old with access to Google can do that. These PILOTS had 3.20 minutes to make a decision and execute their plan!! I for one call it REMARCABLE...

Next time you go dissing Sully and Jeff for your own personal reasons, remember that these men have done more for their passengers, crew, and our profession that most of you will do in 3 life times.. Good day!

All hail King Sully!!! I will bow down in worship of the man if I ever get the chance! But I am confused, is REMARCABLE the same as REMARKABLE or is this a new word used to describe the unworldly actions of King Sully??

 

[Cowboy75]

Next time you go dissing Sully and Jeff for your own personal reasons, remember that these men have done more for their passengers, crew, and our profession that most of you will do in 3 life times.. Good day!

They made it personal when they tried to influence a jury with their "hero" status. I was there to witness it and was not impressed.

They may have been Hudson heros, but not in a courtroom in Phoenix.

 

[B-atch]

They made it personal when they tried to influence a jury with their "hero" status. I was there to witness it and was not impressed.

They may have been Hudson heros, but not in a courtroom in Phoenix.

...Peoples lives were not at stake that day in Phoenix.....

 

[eaglesview]

All hail King Sully!!! I will bow down in worship of the man if I ever get the chance! But I am confused, is REMARCABLE the same as REMARKABLE or is this a new word used to describe the unworldly actions of King Sully??

Here is someone that obviously has nothing to say.

 

[Cowboy75]

...Peoples lives were not at stake that day in Phoenix.....

No, just the careers and the welfare of pilots' families, B-atch.

 

[eaglesview]

No, just the careers and the welfare of pilots' families, B-atch.

yep. on both sides of the country.

 

[Cowboy75]

yep. on both sides of the country.

We shook hands, agreed by a process and your side sucker punched us.

Integrity, doing the right thing, even if it is not convenient.

 

[St. Nic]

All hail King Sully!!! I will bow down in worship of the man if I ever get the chance! But I am confused, is REMARCABLE the same as REMARKABLE or is this a new word used to describe the unworldly actions of King Sully??

I kissed Sully's picture this morning... I felt so much better! Thrust lever- TOGA = power.
Air France couldn't figure it out either one day at a little air show in Paris. It's those simple things in life that kinda bite ya. Anyone see Sully's broom???

 

[Bringupthebird]

Next time you go dissing Sully and Jeff for your own personal reasons, remember that these men have done more for their passengers, crew, and our profession that most of you will do in 3 life times.. Good day!

You assume there is no reason other than personal to analyze what they did right or wrong. Critique is not blasphemy.

If you don't get beyond the hero worship, you'll never discover how remarcable their performance was (or wasn't).

What we do know is that Sully made a successful forced landing on a smooth river in relatively calm conditions. What we don't know is whether it was necessary or not.

 

[JFReservist]

What an industry to work in. Have to use your own cell phone while taxiing to get things done. Unbelievable what managements have done to this industry. ALPA should organize a nationwide walkout. Haven't the pilots walked out nationally in India, Italy, and England? It's our turn.

I wouldn't just blame management... evidenced by this board alone we can't even come to a consensus that the crew did an amazing job saving everyone's life that day.

And as for trying to make an airport, what about your responsibility for the lives of the people on the ground as well??? That's also part of being el capitan

 

[MCDU]

You assume there is no reason other than personal to analyze what they did right or wrong. Critique is not blasphemy.

This is how Bringupthebird would have handled the situation. Against the checklist procedure which starts on page 27 of the QRH, which is 3 pages long, he would have tried to put more gas on engines that are already getting gas and are overtemping and trying to produce thrust.

His train of thought would be get it to an airport at any cost and be a hero. Instead, his little TOGA manuveur, which is not listed anywhere, might have given him some more power for a few seconds, but then he gets an uncontained dual engine failure trying to reach that airport.

Outcome would have been many dead on the ground and all on the airplane, instead of right decision on commiting early to flying the airplane and commiting to a safe outcome.

Bringupthebird is a fine example on why we need better trained pilots that did not pay for training. They lack good judgement and should not be flying airplanes.

In contrast Sully focused on what is the best outcome for the 2min and 51 sec.

By the way, do you know how long it takes for an APU to start. Until the Flap opens.

The stuff Bringupthebird write makes him look like a rookie. It isscary the crap you put out. They did everything by the book. Skiles was fresh of IOE and had very little time on the airbus. You really hate East pilots and that is why East and West will never share a cockpit. Unsafe.

M