A pilots best advocate is Michael Moore

[AC560]

If that fooktard Glen Beck or that pill-popper Rush Limbaugh, or that skinny shrill wind-bag Ann Coulter engages in theatrics to make a point, you right-wing wackos are all hunched over in a corner pleasuring yourself to it.

The difference is the people you listed largely believe passionately in what they are doing. Michael Moore is a hypocrite.

 

[Huck]

The gist of the movie is this: the U.S. was based on democracy. One man, one vote.

It is now based on money. One dollar = one unit of influence.

Now, if you like that setup, great for you. If you'd rather we looked out for everybody, or at least the majority, instead of the 1% that own 90%, then the movie rings a bell for you.

The worship of money isn't found in the Bible. It isn't found in the Constitution. It came out of the Red Scare and thirty years of marketing. Oh and the decline of our schools.

But what do I know. I thought Sicko was brilliant too, even better, actually....

 

[pipejockey]

What I still can't understand is how someone can complain after willingly taking such a job.

And what I still can't understand is how people involved in this industry can't understand why other people in this industry complain! Wake up people and clean the freaking wax out of your ears!! Pilots didn't get involved in this industry to be 10 year FO's flying a barbie jet taking home 2 grand a month. They got involved in this industry to spend 5 years at most at the scumbag regionals and move on to a major airline where the vast majority of the flying and jobs were at. But management has destroyed that career path and has created a glass ceiling, so to speak, at the puss filled regionals. Many of us got involved in this profession pre 9-11 when a career path to a major was all but assured unless you had some serious blemishes on your record. It's like buying a Ferrari and getting a Pinto. Some of you self righteous SOB's who don't dare blame anything or anybody but themselves for their woes in life are out of touch. Heres another news flash for you folks.. sometimes it really is someone else's fault for your woes. Think about it.

 

[waveflyer]

Well said pipe!

One of my favorite FI posts

 

[nimtz]

And what I still can't understand is how people involved in this industry can't understand why other people in this industry complain! Wake up people and clean the freaking wax out of your ears!! Pilots didn't get involved in this industry to be 10 year FO's flying a barbie jet taking home 2 grand a month. They got involved in this industry to spend 5 years at most at the scumbag regionals and move on to a major airline where the vast majority of the flying and jobs were at. But management has destroyed that career path and has created a glass ceiling, so to speak, at the puss filled regionals. Many of us got involved in this profession pre 9-11 when a career path to a major was all but assured unless you had some serious blemishes on your record. It's like buying a Ferrari and getting a Pinto. Some of you self righteous SOB's who don't dare blame anything or anybody but themselves for their woes in life are out of touch. Heres another news flash for you folks.. sometimes it really is someone else's fault for your woes. Think about it.

Outstanding post! I pity anybody coming up now that loves to fly like I did when I was young. We always treated the ticket to the majors as worth the aggravation of multiple military deployments or 5 years of poverty wages w/6 legs per day. Through the magic of management we now wait far longer for that ticket (all be it doing former mainline flying of course) and in my case find the ticket is for a show called BOHICA!

 

[SEVEN]

Read for yourself. How have we let this job fall to a level of a school bus driver?

M

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/must-read/mikes-blog-1-pilots-food-stamps

Believe it or not, mainline pilots wrecked the industry by selling out on scope. Now every "puddle-jumper/commuter" pilot get's to fly a cool jet with an APU. There are lot's who disagree with this, but scope relaxation in the 1990's had a devastating effect on the industry.

 

[DH106]

Heres another news flash for you folks.. sometimes it really is someone else's fault for your woes. Think about it.

Beautifully said! I'm very tired of the anti-union stance among pilots who really think that it's always one's own fault if their career goes bad.

Like I said in my other post: while your seniority number is at risk of getting cut, someone out there is getting rich. Does it really make you feel better to rationalize that?

If you need an example, consider the abhorent factories and "company towns" of the 19th century. Without wage, safety, and fairness-in-the-workplace laws, workers were exploited while management got rich. Is that what capitalism was meant to be -- most have nothing, while a few have it all? That was actually more in-line with communism. Yet, that's what we've got here. Pilots have nothing, while the managements at these companies laugh all the way to the bank.

To complain about the "scope give-away" from mainline unions and the exploitation of pilots by managements is very valid. Ask yourself: does it really need to be this way?

 

[FlickerFade]

So, if not capitalism, what?! Anyone else got a system out there that will yield the freedoms and prosperity we enjoy in the US?

Michael Moore surely has benefited from capitalism. He would be jailed in his beloved Cuba, and would be an unknown pauper in Canada.

His formative relationship with the auto industry wound not even have existed without capitalism. There would have been no jobs to lose.

I'm thankful for the United States, its freedoms, and the riches our economic system provides. Guess that makes me a right wing wacko.

I remember when the transition from Carter to Reagan happened. When the last President who was ashamed of his country was replaced by one who was proud of his country. History seems to be on the verge of repeating itself, as we have a Carter clone as our current President.

 

[FlickerFade]

The gist of the movie is this: the U.S. was based on democracy. One man, one vote.

It is now based on money. One dollar = one unit of influence.
.

Not too familiar with history is he (or you?). This is not a pure democracy, this is a representative republic, there is a big difference now and it was even bigger 200+ years ago.

Michael Moore is a fiction artist. Never let facts get in the way of edited fabrications to reinforce your own biased beliefs (sigh).

 

[enuffalready]

The gist of the movie is this: the U.S. was based on democracy. One man, one vote.

It is now based on money. One dollar = one unit of influence.


....

I WISH that was the case... it should be 1 vote for every $5000 in taxes you pay. now that system would work great. no more sucking on the government teet

 

[DH106]

So, if not capitalism, what?!QUOTE]

Don't be offended, but I feel you're missing my point. Capitalism is the way to go. But, that's not what we have. We have a system of corruption-for-reward and unbridled greed at the expense of others. When we have laws in-place that benefit major corporations at all costs, at the expense of the working class, that's not capitalism.

My other post illustrates how the insurance industry is allowed (let me say that again, "allowed") to collude by law. That's not capitalism. Our country is run by the major corporations, for the major corporations. Our country doesn't exist for you and me, like it's supposed to.

 

[DH106]

I WISH that was the case... it should be 1 vote for every $5000 in taxes you pay. now that system would work great. no more sucking on the government teet

If this were the case, you could inherit a ton of money (ala Paris Hilton), pay taxes on the capital gains that you invest, and then wield enormous voting power -- just because you're rich.

Meanwhile, the guy who sweeps the floors to support his family (instead of selling crack or other crime), has no voting power.

Votes should not be tied to how much money you have. Just because you're rich doesn't mean you're a better person. This point should be especially clear for those who consider themselves Christian.

If one is to adopt this "I'm better because I'm rich" concept, then you'd probably also believe that a 747 guy is a better pilot than a turboprop guy. That kind of mindset is part of how our industry got into this mess.

 

[enuffalready]

never said better. just discontinuation of entitlements. As soon as Hope and change gets 50% of the people on the government Teet then we are all screwed....if you dont pay into the system... then you dont get anything out of the system... that simple..

 

[enuffalready]

Meanwhile, the guy who sweeps the floors to support his family (instead of selling crack or other crime), has no voting power.
.

if he sweeps floor and pays taxes then he has a vote... if he sells crack and doesnt pay taxes.. then he doesnt have a vote...

 

[waka]

..............deleted

 

[DH106]

if he sweeps floor and pays taxes then he has a vote... if he sells crack and doesnt pay taxes.. then he doesnt have a vote...

Agreed, that people who don't pay taxes shouldn't have a vote. There should be no free lifetime welfare for criminals or the able-bodied. But, you didn't readdress the issue of having more votes, just because you're rich.

 

[waka]

For those of you that are anti-Michael Moore, I can respect if you don't agree with him. However, what I CANNOT respect are those practicing simplistic black and white thinking. Believe it or not, one can indeed criticize what is wrong with capitalism and participate in it at the same time. Have you ever had a bad thing to say about corruption? Then you're a pinko commie hypocrite! Have you criticized the management at your airline???? You must be anti-air travel and you're a pilot? What a hypocrite you are!! Get it now? WOW! What an AMAZING concept huh?!?


If you've actually seen the movie and do your own thinking instead of letting to Fox, Rush et al doing your thinking for you, it would be obvious that he isn't summarily bashing capitalism and thus he is NOT a hypocrite for making this film.

Continue to keep your head in the sand if you want, intellectual cowards.

 

[FlickerFade]

..............deleted

What has been proved about MM is that he fabricates stories.
He loves totalitarian Cuba and envies their third world medical system.
He decries capitalism without offering sufficient evidence of a better system (shockingly, news flash!!! it's not perfect!! WOW he's so smart!!)

Your arrogance supporting a blowhard like MM while decrying FOX news and the others on the administrations' enemies list is just too funny.

MM doesn't offer critical thinking, he offers one sided, edited, stilted fiction. You feeling it's fact says more about you than anything else could.

As the current President is finding out....... simplistic campaign rhetoric does not policy make. It's a lot easier when you aren't responsible for anything (ie. MM and Senator Obama).

At least dissent is still legal, until your heroes try to outlaw it! Jeez!

 

[waka]

What has been proved about MM is that he fabricates stories.
He loves totalitarian Cuba and envies their third world medical system.
He decries capitalism without offering sufficient evidence of a better system (shockingly, news flash!!! it's not perfect!! WOW he's so smart!!)

Yet another black and white thinker that hasn't seen the film (or worse, has seen it and just wasn't paying attention)

Your arrogance supporting a blowhard like MM while decrying FOX news and the others on the administrations' enemies list is just too funny.

With your misplaced arrogance, your whole post is laughable.


MM doesn't offer critical thinking, he offers one sided, edited, stilted fiction. You feeling it's fact says more about you than anything else could.

As the current President is finding out....... simplistic campaign rhetoric does not policy make. It's a lot easier when you aren't responsible for anything (ie. MM and Senator Obama).

huh? You don't even know what you're saying. Moore and Obama have nothing in common on culpability.....(if that's what you think you were saying.)

At least dissent is still legal, until your heroes try to outlaw it! Jeez!

Ha! Do you mean like the Cheney/Bush regime? Whatever, just fly the plane.

 

[FlickerFade]

Yet another black and white thinker that hasn't seen the film (or worse, has seen it and just wasn't paying attention)




With your misplaced arrogance, your whole post is laughable.


MM doesn't offer critical thinking, he offers one sided, edited, stilted fiction. You feeling it's fact says more about you than anything else could.



huh? You don't even know what you're saying. Moore and Obama have nothing in common on culpability.....(if that's what you think you were saying.)




Ha! Do you mean like the Cheney/Bush regime? Whatever, just fly the plane.

Simplistic thinking of MM is what you are endorsing. There is no theme of unbiased critical thinking in his propaganda. But he hates the USA!

And shutting down of dissent is what you are advocating politically.

Thanks for deigning to still allow someone like me who flies for the Navy reserve and a major carrier to remain employed.

 

[waka]

Simplistic thinking of MM is what you are endorsing. There is no theme of unbiased critical thinking in his propaganda. But he hates the USA!

Talk about simplistic! You think I'm endorsing simplistic thinking, yet you're actually demonstrating it.

I'm sure he loves the USA just as much, if not more than you do. That would be a presumption on my part. However, it's very plausible.

And shutting down of dissent is what you are advocating politically.

Show me exactly where I advocate shutting down dissent. And please, no stupid one-liner pseudo patriotic answers this time. Be specific with quotes.

Thanks for deigning to still allow someone like me who flies for the Navy reserve and a major carrier to remain employed.

I'm for any pilot, hell, anyone to remain employed. Be it military, civilian, major, regional, lab specimen hauler whatever, you're no more entitled to your employment as anyone else or what your seniority will hold. That said, just fly the plane.

BTW; Have you seen the new Moore film?

 

[FlickerFade]

Talk about simplistic! You think I'm endorsing simplistic thinking, yet you're actually demonstrating it.

I'm sure he loves the USA just as much, if not more than you do. That would be a presumption on my part. However, it's very plausible.



Show me exactly where I advocate shutting down dissent. And please, no stupid one-liner pseudo patriotic answers this time. Be specific with quotes.




I'm for any pilot, hell, anyone to remain employed. Be it military, civilian, major, regional, lab specimen hauler whatever, you're no more entitled to your employment as anyone else or what your seniority will hold. That said, just fly the plane.

BTW; Have you seen the new Moore film?

No I haven't seen the movie, touche.

But I have seen other MM films. I doubt that his technique has changed. He edits clips, says snarky things, draws foregone conclusions. Basically the Daily Show. He has been exposed before for his fiction.

He may have points to make. Any topic can be picked apart with the right editing.

Yet my point is that he has no responsibilities. And like the President is finding out, it is way easier to be on the outside criticizing than to actually have to make decisions based upon the facts at hand......... and stand up to their consequences.

MM is not an uber-critical thinker, he is a movie salesman. Up until this current film, he has sold well.............. CAPITALISM has been very good to him!

 

[waka]

No I haven't seen the movie, touche.


But I have seen other MM films. I doubt that his technique has changed.....

Enough said.

 

[GogglesPisano]

The more money you make the votes you get? Did I read this right? Because the ruling elite in this country don't have enough power already?

You guys belong back in feudal Europe.

 

[FlickerFade]

Enough said.

So you listen to a lot of Rush Limbaugh and Fox news? Enough to have an informed opinion? Or are you just following your liberal marching orders?

I at least know what a fraud MM has been proven to be. He has lost all credibility with his past mockumentaries.

Your simplistic logic and inability to engage in discussion ie: the obtuse "enough said", is telling.

And the White House is engaging in shutting down dissenting opinion. Your advocacy of their theme puts you in that same camp.

 

[FlickerFade]

The more money you make the votes you get? Did I read this right? Because the ruling elite in this country don't have enough power already?

You guys belong back in feudal Europe.

You mean the elites that have voted for democrat control of congress and the executive since 2006? Yeah, I do agree that there are more democrats in congress who are wealthy than republicans though.

George Orwell: "All Pigs are equal but some are more equal than others" - Animal Farm....... the core of current liberal ideology.

 

[waka]

So you listen to a lot of Rush Limbaugh and Fox news? Enough to have an informed opinion?

Yes.

Your simplistic logic and inability to engage in discussion ie: the obtuse "enough said", is telling.

Judging a book by its cover....talk about simplistic. Pot, meet kettle. Talk about "telling"

Show me exactly where I advocate shutting down dissent. And please, no stupid one-liner pseudo patriotic answers this time. Be specific with quotes.

Remember this question? the one you dodged? I think you're just mindlessly regurgitating what you've been told by your heroes.

And the White House is engaging in shutting down dissenting opinion. Your advocacy of their theme puts you in that same camp.

Please explain exactly how the WH is engaging in shutting down dissenting opinion. I fully expect you to dodge that one too. I understand that it can be difficult to answer the "why's" if you haven't formulated the opinion yourself. Do you see how that gets you in trouble?

 

[Huck]

You honestly think the billions poured into the elections in our representative democracy don't help Wall Street?

You think we'd have done better, as an industry, after 9/11 if Goldman Sachs owned an airline?

Funny you guys should mention Reagan. He's where the Wall Street / White House nexus began - Don Regan, ex head of Merrill Lynch, was Reagan's chief of staff. He got his billions, as did all the rest up to old Hank Paulson.....

 

[FlickerFade]

Yes.




Judging a book by its cover....talk about simplistic. Pot, meet kettle. Talk about "telling"


Remember this question? the one you dodged? I think you're just mindlessly regurgitating what you've been told by your heroes.





Please explain exactly how the WH is engaging in shutting down dissenting opinion. I fully expect you to dodge that one too. I understand that it can be difficult to answer the "why's" if you haven't formulated the opinion yourself. Do you see how that gets you in trouble?

So you're like the majority of news watchers, and radio listeners, they watch FOX news and listen to Rush Limbaugh. If you don't follow enough media to see where opposing these people/networks are a boiler place democrat/liberal talking point, how can you claim to be informed? When the President is scared to be interviewed by Chris freaking Wallace?! When you use terms like FOX news as adjectives, you label yourself as simple minded and thoughtless.

The President just spent his weekend address attacking insurance companies.

I know that you feel that every media outlet should support your bias, so does the White House. That's why they refuse interviews with FOX.

Where have you refuted the fictional works of MM? Yet you reference him in some sort of credible way.

You: Are too
Me: Are NOT
You: Are too
Me: Am not
You: Are too
Me: Am not
effing pointless.

 

[waka]

When the President is scared to be interviewed by Chris freaking Wallace?!

Straw-man argument.

When you use terms like FOX news as adjectives, you label yourself as simple minded and thoughtless.

Please Quote exactly when I used Fox as an adjective? Do you even know the definition of adjective? I won't hold my breath

The President just spent his weekend address attacking insurance companies.

I know that you feel that every media outlet should support your bias, so does the White House. That's why they refuse interviews with FOX.

Where have you refuted the fictional works of MM? Yet you reference him in some sort of credible way.

When are you going to point out what you see as fiction? Again, not just general views, but specifics? I know, probably more than you can handle.

You: Are too
Me: Are NOT
You: Are too
Me: Am not
You: Are too
Me: Am not
effing pointless.

Well, no. It's more like;
Me: Specific question
You: Irrelevant parroted drivel
Me: Specific question
You: Irrelevant parroted drivel
Me: Specific question
You: Irrelevant parroted drivel
Me: Specific question
You: Irrelevant parroted drivel

You have made it pointless.