Republic- Taking us all down

[settogathrust]

Here is a response posted on the Major board. Just wanted to get us all thinking about it over here as well. It is in regards to republic taking over Midwest flying and my thoughts on the regional mindset.

How did RAH pilots help make this happen? Let's start with pay rates. The Captains pay for the 175/190 is embarasing. ($77 after 5 years)WTF? The FO is just F-ing stupid! (top out at $37 at 4 years) All jets? Are you kidding me? That's how they helped make this happen!
Talk about dragging down the industry. They have set the new bar for bringing down our industry. In a big way. Is anybody else seeing this?

This is a mainline aircraft. Regionals have no business flying these untill the pilots realize that just because we work for a "regional" airline, doesn't mean we have to take it in the shorts. If a "regional" airline payed mainline wages to fly these then fine. Not until then. This regional word is being misused. We fly coast to coast and Canada to Mexico.
We need to just change our name and it will change our mindset. We need to take Regional out of our vocabulary. Seriously! Management knows that we have this regional mindset and they are exploiting it. We are being taken advantage of. It is down right criminal the wages we are making for the sacrafices from home and responsibility we hold. For the amount we all have in this career and for the thousands of reasons we can loose our job at any moment, we should be paid more.

Am I right or am I right?

 

[Raoul Duke]

Republic pilots had nothing to do with Midwest situation whatsoever.

 

[Tex-Ex]

Deja Post... There are a million posts like this... and for some reason they all contain the word "loose" instead of "lose." Weird.

It's all been said before. Republic (Chautauqua at the time) negotiated those wages in 2003 when it was nothing more than 50 seat RJ's. 170's weren't even a pipe dream at that time... not to mention Airbuses. The contract was improved in all categories. Some even applauded the contract at that time.

Since 2003, CHQ became part of RAH with the purchase of S5 and the creation of the Republic Cert. The writters of the contract included the clause that said all pilots would be on one seniority list... thus avoiding what was seen at Trans States and GOJet as well as ASA and SkyWest. The contract protected its pilots there. Now let's see what happens with Midwest and Frontier (feel free to speculate about Mokulele as well).

The contract is expired. Higher rates are necessary, of course. We'll see what they negotiate.

Want to talk about wages? What about CAL FO pay.... Or United pay period. Oh right, maybe we'll use the "paying your dues" excuse to justify that. Interesting...

The industry is a pyramid scheme (scam). Thousands on the bottom not making squat and a few at the top raking it in. Everyone is surprised to learn what many pilots earn because they have a neighbor / brother-in-law / friend from church who is a pilot and he's home all the time and makes 200,000+ a year. They don't realize that he is more than likely at the end of his career at a stable successful (currently) airline. He is one of those who are LUCKY enough to make it through a career without having to change jobs or be furloughed for years on end. The rest of us don't make that much and are not home all the time.

That same guy at the top of the pyramid just lobbied to have the retirement age extended to 65 further stagnating the already stagnant the industry. Everyone is now in a hold for five years as we wait for retirement attrition to kick in again... which of course is the only cause for promotion in this slow economy.

But... Let's blame Republic for the all woes of the industry instead... Not United, Jet Blue, Virgin America, CAL... etc... Just Republic... damn those guys.

 

[BlackPilot628]

Deja Post... There are a million posts like this... and for some reason they all contain the word "loose" instead of "lose." Weird.

It's all been said before. Republic (Chautauqua at the time) negotiated those wages in 2003 when it was nothing more than 50 seat RJ's. 170's weren't even a pipe dream at that time... not to mention Airbuses. The contract was improved in all categories. Some even applauded the contract at that time.

Since 2003, CHQ became part of RAH with the purchase of S5 and the creation of the Republic Cert. The writters of the contract included the clause that said all pilots would be on one seniority list... thus avoiding what was seen at Trans States and GOJet as well as ASA and SkyWest. The contract protected its pilots there. Now let's see what happens with Midwest and Frontier (feel free to speculate about Mokulele as well).

The contract is expired. Higher rates are necessary, of course. We'll see what they negotiate.

Want to talk about wages? What about CAL FO pay.... Or United pay period. Oh right, maybe we'll use the "paying your dues" excuse to justify that. Interesting...

The industry is a pyramid scheme (scam). Thousands on the bottom not making squat and a few at the top raking it in. Everyone is surprised to learn what many pilots earn because they have a neighbor / brother-in-law / friend from church who is a pilot and he's home all the time and makes 200,000+ a year. They don't realize that he is more than likely at the end of his career at a stable successful (currently) airline. He is one of those who are LUCKY enough to make it through a career without having to change jobs or be furloughed for years on end. The rest of us don't make that much and are not home all the time.

That same guy at the top of the pyramid just lobbied to have the retirement age extended to 65 further stagnating the already stagnant the industry. Everyone is now in a hold for five years as we wait for retirement attrition to kick in again... which of course is the only cause for promotion in this slow economy.

But... Let's blame Republic for the all woes of the industry instead... Not United, Jet Blue, Virgin America, CAL... etc... Just Republic... damn those guys.

About damn time!

 

[Popeye0537]

Toga, why are you calling Republic a regional? We're not anymore. We can fly ANY aricraft we choose.

What is your great pay rate for flying all those EMB's and CRJ's?

 

[joeyfly55]

Republic Sucks!!!

 

[79%N1]

Toga, why are you calling Republic a regional? We're not anymore. We can fly ANY aricraft we choose.

What is your great pay rate for flying all those EMB's and CRJ's?

Here we go!!!

Republic is a Legacy Carrier now! Put 'em up there with United and Continental!! LOL

 

[jetalc]

Deja Post... There are a million posts like this... and for some reason they all contain the word "loose" instead of "lose." Weird.

...The writters of the contract included the clause that said all pilots would be on one seniority list...

Not that I disagree with you, but at the same time you beat up on the illiterate, you come up with this gem...

 

[settogathrust]

I'm sure we all have our typo moments.
Think about it guys. We just need to come together and pull our heads out. Management loves it when we yell at each other. This is simple stuff. Managment 101. Let us believe we are not worth more and we wont fight for it. (then dangle a new airplane in front of us) In fact we will just fight with each other and not get anywhere. So now instead of agreeing that the wage sucks and working to fix it, we point at each other and say "well how much do you make Mr. big paycheck". Sad. Next thing you know they will start running stickers that say "Guppy Killer" on their bags........oh, nevermind. Already happening. Nice.

 

[SPDBRD747400]

Mesa Sucks!

 

[UnstableAviator]

I'm amazed how RAH (CHQ) has gone from a nobody 50 seat operator to the most hated 121 group in the airline pilot internet world in just a few short years.

We need a new CBA. After we negotiate and come to an agreement, then please feel free to berate us with all you've got, because we'll deserve it then. Of course, with pilots negotiating against experienced ex-Ford & Harrison lawyers, I'm hoping, but not counting, on an industry leading contract.

 

[NoJoy]

Wait. I am confused. I thought that Southwest was the most hated 121 carrier?

 

[Kingzrt]

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, correct me if i am wrong but ERJ = Embraer regional jet still right? Why is it RAH thinks they are a major? Turbo prop drivers are making the same as 170 drivers, thats shameful.

 

[Aerosurfer]

I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, correct me if i am wrong but ERJ = Embraer regional jet still right? Why is it RAH thinks they are a major? Turbo prop drivers are making the same as 170 drivers, thats shameful.

THAT Mentality is the whole reason why regionals are in this position in the first place..... Didn't all the Legacy/Major/Traditional carriers vote these inferior about 15 years ago, therefore opening the doors for the impending tumble.... We are not innocent and far from perfect in our execution, but you are actually blaming our success on your own Faults and Egos......

Us Regional pilots should be pissed at all the Legacy Carriers for letting management erode your own jobs. We dont like the wages now that we are a Major/Independent airline. Most of our F/Os are getting to the top of the payscale that was never supposed to be reached, No one is salivating to fly for less. We are actually having to clean up your mess, while we try to rebuild the industry, not tear it down.

 

[kf4amu]

THAT Mentality is the whole reason why regionals are in this position in the first place.....

Actually the mentaility is from this attitude...

Most of our F/Os are getting to the top of the payscale that was never supposed to be reached,

It IS supposed to be reached. You are not "SUPPOSED" to upgrade to Captain after 3 years. It's that entitlement mentality to a "quick upgrade" that has put the regionals in this positon.

No one is salivating to fly for less. We are actually having to clean up your mess, while we try to rebuild the industry, not tear it down.

Holy ******************** what a crock of crap. Every pilot that went to the bottom feeders were too busy posting pictures of their shiny jet on myspace and telling their family and friends that they are the worlds best pilot because they are flying a jet and will be a captain in 2 years to take a look at the ********************tiness of their airline's pay and contract. I hope the industry stays the way it is, because thats the only way you pukes are going to get what you deserve...which is the right seat at a ********************ty airline for ********************ty pay your whole life.

Thanks for defending the lowering of the bar.

 

[N813CA]

Been an FO for 9 years now. 7 at my current carrier. Trust me never had the shiny jet mentality. Some of us wanted to spend our time and go to the majors. That just isn't available anymore......

 

[Nindiri]

kf4amu gets kind of worked up. :laugh: It was a very entertaining rant, though.

 

[kf4amu]

kf4amu gets kind of worked up. :laugh: It was a very entertaining rant, though.

The asterisks sure make it seem more angry that it looked when I typed it.

Still, its nice to rant every now and then. Good ole internet.

 

[doh]

Actually the mentaility is from this attitude...



It IS supposed to be reached. You are not "SUPPOSED" to upgrade to Captain after 3 years. It's that entitlement mentality to a "quick upgrade" that has put the regionals in this positon.


Holy ******************** what a crock of crap. Every pilot that went to the bottom feeders were too busy posting pictures of their shiny jet on myspace and telling their family and friends that they are the worlds best pilot because they are flying a jet and will be a captain in 2 years to take a look at the ********************tiness of their airline's pay and contract. I hope the industry stays the way it is, because thats the only way you pukes are going to get what you deserve...which is the right seat at a ********************ty airline for ********************ty pay your whole life.

Thanks for defending the lowering of the bar.

You could not possibly be more wrong. If mainline APLA had not allowed the outsourcing of mainline flying, it would not make squadoosch for difference whether the 20 year old had SJS or not. He would have had to pay his dues. The bar was lowered by the 40-60 year old mainliners who didn't keep the flying in house.

 

[N311HK]

Been an FO for 9 years now. 7 at my current carrier. Trust me never had the shiny jet mentality. Some of us wanted to spend our time and go to the majors. That just isn't available anymore......

Very true. We sold out ourselves as much as possible. Why would you take a job to make as much as captain at one place (RAH) and make the same as an FO (B6)? I just want to know why someone would take that job? And the "I need to feed my family" and "Its a stepping stone" arguments don't work. I don't see the logic. Its basic principle. And its not a matter of a couple dollars difference in pay. Just about 30K a year!

 

[AV1ATRX]

I read a lot but don't post much. However, I'm finally ready to ask a question. I've seen many, many people referring to "bottom feeders" and how all these regional pilots made bad choices that resulted in the destruction of the industry. My question is this: for the next generation coming along, what airlines are bottom feeders and which one's aren't? My fate is sealed already, so the answer won't affect me personally. I am curious, however, what all the pilots who have gone before and have all the wisdom would recommend?

Also, which regional airlines are "innocent" in all this? I'm being serious, guys. This is not a joke. Which regional airlines are acceptable at this point? And why? Or are the next genereation supposed to get their time through some other means and then apply to majors? What would your advice be? Think carefully before you respond. I am sincerely interested in your responses.

 

[buscap]

Crickets!!

But none of us are guilty. The scope-it-out-for-cash mainline pilots own this turd!!!

I am so glad they crapped this one though. I'm stuck here, but at least I'm stuck at a better place than I would be without their shortsighted scope!!!

 

[kf4amu]

My question is this: for the next generation coming along, what airlines are bottom feeders and which one's aren't? My fate is sealed already, so the answer won't affect me personally. I am curious, however, what all the pilots who have gone before and have all the wisdom would recommend?

I'd say any regional that is growing. No regional grows because they provide good service or run a better operation. The only thing the majors care about when they want more flying is price. As we saw with the Buffalo crash, they can distance themselves if something bad happens and point to the FAA standards and say they were "well trained and experienced". Until then, they pay as little as possible.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Crickets!!

But none of us are guilty. The scope-it-out-for-cash mainline pilots own this turd!!!

Hey turd! Maybe you in your infinite wisdom ever heard of RFP???
It's because of that you find yourself stuck where you are!

I am so glad they crapped this one though. I'm stuck here, but at least I'm stuck at a better place than I would be without their shortsighted scope!!!

I'm glad your glad. Next time your ********************ty company gets undercut by another ********************ty company for flying, thank them!

 

[lookin4better]

Republic pilots had nothing to do with Midwest situation whatsoever.

Exactly true! But most dont get it... they put out their bottom lips and pout, and blame other pilots for their situations.... which was the airline executives plan in the first place. Way to play right into their hands.

 

[DX Rick]

Blame it on the major guys when the RJ first came to light. They were too good to fly those little jets, now it's biting the whole industry in the arse.
To the original poster, you're just upset your carrier didnt get these airplanes, otherwise you'd be just fine flying those planes for what ever the pay was.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

blah... blah...blah
Who did this and who did that? Who caused this and who caused that? Who gives a rip? The mainline guys didn't want to fly those little toys jets. At the time they were proposed they didn't have to want them. Nobody was going to a Legacy carrier to fly a barbie jet. NOBODY can see the future. It would have been better if they got them on property because then junior FOs could bid Captain and new hires were on property with the chance to bid off eventually. In time the Majors would have seen the poor Cost per seat mile of those things and would have stopped delivery or they would have gotten rid of the real planes like the DC-9 in favor of the smaller jets. The domestic flying would have still been going to the little jets with less chance of moving out of them. The pay would still have been lower than their peers on other equipment. Eventually, the cost to operate those things would have not made the bean counters happy and they would have sold the things off to the t-prop operators anyway or given them to their wholly owned carriers to operate at lower wages. That is the only way to make money with them. Why would a carrier fly more flights with less seats and pay top end pay when they can pay more on bigger jets with more seats and keep their unit costs down? These pipe dreams of getting better regional contracts is pathetic. Every time a regional did get a better contract they got chopped off at the knees with their block hours and the flying was given to a cheaper carrier. It would have happened either way. Deregulation caused companies to compete in an open market. That is capitalism and that is what all those right wing nutjobs stroke off too until it makes an impact on their lives in a negative way. Wasnt regulation kind of socialist? So, a new company like Southwest, Airtran, Jetblue, or whatever would still come along. A new company has cost advantage. New planes and younger and newer workforce that have a long way to go before majority make top of wage scale. Plus, you start without pension funds. Those funds which are nice if you are lucky to retire and cash the checks are economic suicide for any company longterm. Just look at the Social Security nightmare and all the government pensions and entitlements that still drain enormous percentage from budgets. So, the new companies would still have come along with cost advantage and hurt the Legacies over time. Now add the impact of fractional ownerships. Those are thousands of people flying everyday that used to pay first and business class walk up fares. That was bread and butter for the Majors. It is easy to hate mangement and rightfully so. I hate them simply because they were smarter than me and they learned how to become rich and I didnt but they exploit they very system that Americans love which is capitalism. The whole concept of it is based on winners and losers. Someone cannot have everything if everyone has something. Get it? Airline mangement win and we lose. Sucks to be us. I have met some of the coolest people at the Majors. They were lucky to be born earlier and get in when the getting was good. They are Captains at legacy carrier and make a good living. It isnt what it used to be but it is better than a lot of people make who work a lot harder. They do what everyone does and that is protect what they have. It is amazing how those on the bottom always want everyone to share the wealth but as soon as they find the golden path they pucker up tighter than new white guy in prison. America loves winners and we worship that and we hate when we lose. A lot of pilots are losing and they are pissed. I dont blame them. As for the regional pukes. You know who you are. I am not talking about the guy working at a tprop company that decided to buy jets. Seriously, who would say no thanks I will just quit and have my principles? Principles? In this country? Uh huh, and fat women should believe they are beautiful. Those old tprop salts are not the majority of regional pilots anymore. The majority are the little snotrags that were waiting for a few hundred hours so they can go get a jet job and then bo back to FBO in their uniform and sunglasses. Come on, I know many are reading this who did that. As well, as all these vomit inducing pics all over the internet(facebook and myspace etc . . .) of the geeks who take pictures of themselves in uniform and and in the plane or near the plane blah blah blah. How many were actually moving from one regional to another for bigger planes? LOTS. In '04, '05, ' 06 it was like max exodus. How many little pukes were trying to get on with the Republic of Shataqua to get on the 170? How many bid for bigger planes as an FO for same pay? (ugh) Yeah, you know it is true. If you idiots think you are going to get a contract that bites into the profit margins of the execs then you better stop re-living your last trip on your computer flight sim and pay attention. The only way these bigger RJs are worth it to any company is to pay little and make you work longer and harder. If it costs them more then the majors will find someone else. The legacy pilots might have unwittingly started this by turning down the bed that their egos were too big to lie in but you snotrags jumped in and got cozy and are now fueling it. I never flew an RJ. I like flying with adults at a major. The one thing ALPA needs to do first above all else is to get Flight Attendant standards from the 60's back. The 3-G network is working my last nerve.

 

[Airline Driver]

In 1978, there was a Lil' Ole' thing called Deregulation. That was the corner Stone of everything that came after. Pilots are their own worst enemy too. They are the first to say to their fellow pilots, I'm behind you 100%, but in the next breath will sell them down the river to better their own situation. Management gets, greedier and greedier, and pilots are unwilling to work with them to have some what of a happy medium.

One company is not responsible for the Airline industry tuning itself inside out and upside down. It is a culmination of past actions by both Pilots, management and government that started this process rolling over 30 years ago. Not much surprises me in this industry, and I am a firm believer that the minute you say, "THAT CAN'T HAPPEN" or "THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN", it Probably will at some point. But seeing as how right now, RAH is doing something a little different than the norm, lets all blame them because they and they alone took down the airline industry. Give me a break!!

I get a kick out of this sight because we have allot of idiots on hear who have absolutely no common sense. Not to mention they lack the open mindedness of seeing the big picture and understanding the history of the facts at hand!!

 

[Quack]

Republic just put a bid out for 50 upgrades and a 190 base in denver...as the world turns

 

[The Drizzle]

Republic just put a bid out for 50 upgrades and a 190 base in denver...as the world turns

Vacancies, yes. Upgrades, no.