camper1159
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G200/cl30
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Rick James
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LJ45
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check this link out:
http://www.jetsearch.com/index.php/...ram_AC2List,10061/ff_param_AC3List,0/lang,en/
http://www.jetsearch.com/index.php/...ram_AC2List,10061/ff_param_AC3List,0/lang,en/
masedogg19
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GVFlyer
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Both are good aircraft, there are significant differences however. Here is my completely biased comparison of the two jets.
From its inception, the G200 was designed to be a super mid-size intercontinental business jet with Honeywell Laseref V IRSs, Dual Collins 12 Channel Global Positioning Systems and dual Honeywell KHF-1050 HFs w/ SELCAL.
The G200 has two A/C packs. The CL300 has only one.
IRSs are not available on the Challenger. An HF is an option.
The G200 has two starter generators on the engines and the same generator on the APU which can be started up to 35,000 feet. It also has two 43 amp hour batteries. The CL300 does not have a redundant electrical system.
The G200 has earned European (EASA) certification.
The G200 offers such customer convenience items as satellite-based High-Speed Data System (HSDS), allowing passengers fast access to internet-based communications, low ambient noise levels, 100 percent fresh air and natural light from 15 large windows.
The Challenger 300 was never envisioned to be a transoceanic airplane. It was developed for the coast to coast market and was originally called the Continental. It was re-branded as the CL300 late in the program.
The G200 can berth 4 passengers for those trans-Atlantic flights. Because of it’s emergency exit placement, the CL300 can berth only three.
Some have claimed the G200’s step down aisle to be a negative factor. In fact, the seats were raised three inches in order to locate them at the widest part of the cabin. Consequently, there is 21 inches between the seats on the Gulfstream G200 and only 17 inches between the seats on the CL300. Because the cabin on the G200 is taller than the CL300’s no headroom is lost by this optimized seat placement.
The G200’s wide cabin and unique modular floor design allows better outfitting flexibility than the CL300. The available 4 place conference grouping is not available on the CL300. By placing a divan opposite the 4 place table productive in-flight meetings can be conducted for up to 6 people. It also provides a comfortable eating area.
For the pilots, the G200 flight deck features the Collins Pro Line 4 system, an Engine Indicating and Crew Alert System (EICAS), and five large Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS) screens formatted for easy viewing, which provides critical electrical, hydraulic and mechanical systems information at a glance.
The G200 has dual Flight Management Systems (FMS), dual digital autopilot, integrated GPS, color weather radar with turbulence detection.
Avionics meets the latest international requirements with 8.33 kHz, RNP, and RVSM.
For efficiency and safety, the G200 also includes the TCAS (Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System) and EGPWS (Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System) with windshear warning. Most important to me, Gulfstream G200 has the Safe Flight Instrument Corporation’s Enhanced Autopower® Automatic Throttle System (ATS).
A maintenance diagnostic system for improved troubleshooting is standard on the G200.
Hot and high performance is a strong suit of the G200, which can carry eight passengers from Aspen to New York, taking off on a 74°F (ISA+24°C) day. The G200 requires only 5,000 ft. takeoff distance when fueled for a 2,500 nm mission. It has a 3,285 ft. landing distance at max landing weight.
The required runway distance for takeoff at sea level is 6,083 feet with standard loading, or 6,342 feet when loaded to its maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of 35,450 pounds. At an altitude of 5,000 feet and a temperature of 77ºF, the takeoff distance increases to 9,800 feet.
The G200 features fast cruise speeds for reduced flight times. Long range cruise is M0.75. Normal cruise is M0.80. High speed cruise is M0.82 and maximum operating speed is M0.85.
The airframe of the Gulftstream 200 was designed to be as aerodynamic as possible with the help of 3-D computer-aided structural analysis programs. The main structures are made out of aluminum alloys, titanium, and steel; composites are used for some secondary structures.
Fuel is stored in two wing tanks, two feed tanks, one center tank, one forward tank and fuselage tank. The fuel levels of the tanks are automatically equalized by gravity interconnect valves. It is a simple fuel system requiring no pilot action. It features an automatic fuel transfer system, a fuel jettison system and an automatic fueling shutoff.
While some here have said that the G200 is underwinged, the heavy loading of the wings makes the Gulfstream 200 handle turbulence far better than an aircraft with a lower wing loading. A long-travel trailing link landing gear smoothes out taxiing and landings. Hydraulically powered carbon anti-skid brakes and a 100º pivot radius of the nosewheel provide for excellent ground handling.
When compared to the CL300, the Gulfstream 200 has the larger cabin volume by a margin of 8 cubic feet. It also wins in the baggage category with about 45 extra cubic feet of heated and pressurized baggage space. If needed, the Gulfstream 200 can carry 1,600 pounds more payload than the Challenger 300.
According to Jet Advisor, the Gulfstream 200 outperforms the Challenger 300 in its fuel burn as well. On a 600 nautical mile trip with fuel reserves and four passengers, the G200 burns 8% less fuel.
The G200’s baggage area is 150 cubic feet and is rated for 1,980 pounds. The CL300’s baggage area is 106 cubic feet and holds 500 pounds (750 lbs. is available at extra cost).
The G200 offers a standard wood interior with selections of premium quality woods, fabrics, and metal plating. The standard interior of the CL300 is made of plastic laminates.
The G200 comes with Life Rafts and Large Capacity Oxygen Bottles standard. They are options on the CL300.
The G200 offers as standard equipment the Airshow Moving Map System with Total World Map Package (6 maps). The CL300 features a mapping system with one regional map.
The G200 has a 5 Gallon Pressurized Water System with a 10 Gallon No-cost Option Available. The CL300 has a 2 gallon gravity feed water system only.
The G200 Toilet Capacity is 8.7 Gallons. The CL300 has a 4 gallon toilet capacity which is not adequate for long trips.
The G200 is completed by Gulfstream at their Dallas Texas facility using premium materials. The CL300 uses third party kits averaging over 700 pounds above spec weight and uses lower quality materials and less durable components (such as plastic latches and door catches). Premium interiors equivalent to standard G200 interiors are an extra cost option.
The Challenger 300 has a much nosier in-flight cabin averaging over 60 dB SIL (FL410/Mach 0.75).
The G200 offers more standard avionics features.
The G200 has two Flight Management Systems (FMS) Standard. The CL300 has one Flight Management Systems (FMS) standard (a second FMS is Optional).
The G200 has Two GPS Receivers Standard. The CL300 has one GPS Receiver Standard (second GPS Receiver is Optional).
The G200 has two Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) systems standard. The CL300 has one Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) standard (second DME is Optional).
The G200 has an18 Inch Weather Radar with Dual Controls. The CL300 has a 14 Inch Weather Radar.
The G200 comes with an HF Radio Standard, the 2nd HF is a No Cost Option. The CL300 has an HF Radio as an option.
The G200 flight control system has full manual backup. The pilot can safely fly and land the G200 in the event of a full hydraulic failure. The system meets the latest certification requirements for jammed controls.
The G200 has a proven wing and horizontal tail de-ice system. It is a simple, reliable technology that has no performance degradation associated with the bleed anti-ice systems.
The G200 has a redundant hydraulic system with two independent systems with three pumps. In the event of total hydraulic loss, flight controls, landing gear, brakes, thrust reversers and flaps are still operational.
G200 Water System Servicing features Remote/External Servicing with Digital Quantity Indicator. The CL300 has a Removable Tank Requiring Manual Servicing and Access to the Cabin.
The G200’s APU is not needed for engine start. The engines can be started using only battery power. The starter/generator on the APU can be used to replace the engine starter/generator. The CL300 requires the APU for engine start. If the APU is inoperable, an Air Pressurization Cart, “Huffer”, is required to start the engines.
The Gulfstream G200 uses the PWC 300 engine as does the Falcon 2000EX, the Lear 60 the Citation Sovereign, the Envoy 3, the Falcon 7X, the Hawker 4000, and the Fairchild Dornier 328 Jet. The Honeywell HTF7000 is used only on theChallenger 300.
From its inception, the G200 was designed to be a super mid-size intercontinental business jet with Honeywell Laseref V IRSs, Dual Collins 12 Channel Global Positioning Systems and dual Honeywell KHF-1050 HFs w/ SELCAL.
The G200 has two A/C packs. The CL300 has only one.
IRSs are not available on the Challenger. An HF is an option.
The G200 has two starter generators on the engines and the same generator on the APU which can be started up to 35,000 feet. It also has two 43 amp hour batteries. The CL300 does not have a redundant electrical system.
The G200 has earned European (EASA) certification.
The G200 offers such customer convenience items as satellite-based High-Speed Data System (HSDS), allowing passengers fast access to internet-based communications, low ambient noise levels, 100 percent fresh air and natural light from 15 large windows.
The Challenger 300 was never envisioned to be a transoceanic airplane. It was developed for the coast to coast market and was originally called the Continental. It was re-branded as the CL300 late in the program.
The G200 can berth 4 passengers for those trans-Atlantic flights. Because of it’s emergency exit placement, the CL300 can berth only three.
Some have claimed the G200’s step down aisle to be a negative factor. In fact, the seats were raised three inches in order to locate them at the widest part of the cabin. Consequently, there is 21 inches between the seats on the Gulfstream G200 and only 17 inches between the seats on the CL300. Because the cabin on the G200 is taller than the CL300’s no headroom is lost by this optimized seat placement.
The G200’s wide cabin and unique modular floor design allows better outfitting flexibility than the CL300. The available 4 place conference grouping is not available on the CL300. By placing a divan opposite the 4 place table productive in-flight meetings can be conducted for up to 6 people. It also provides a comfortable eating area.
For the pilots, the G200 flight deck features the Collins Pro Line 4 system, an Engine Indicating and Crew Alert System (EICAS), and five large Electronic Flight Instrument System (EFIS) screens formatted for easy viewing, which provides critical electrical, hydraulic and mechanical systems information at a glance.
The G200 has dual Flight Management Systems (FMS), dual digital autopilot, integrated GPS, color weather radar with turbulence detection.
Avionics meets the latest international requirements with 8.33 kHz, RNP, and RVSM.
For efficiency and safety, the G200 also includes the TCAS (Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System) and EGPWS (Enhanced Ground Proximity Warning System) with windshear warning. Most important to me, Gulfstream G200 has the Safe Flight Instrument Corporation’s Enhanced Autopower® Automatic Throttle System (ATS).
A maintenance diagnostic system for improved troubleshooting is standard on the G200.
Hot and high performance is a strong suit of the G200, which can carry eight passengers from Aspen to New York, taking off on a 74°F (ISA+24°C) day. The G200 requires only 5,000 ft. takeoff distance when fueled for a 2,500 nm mission. It has a 3,285 ft. landing distance at max landing weight.
The required runway distance for takeoff at sea level is 6,083 feet with standard loading, or 6,342 feet when loaded to its maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) of 35,450 pounds. At an altitude of 5,000 feet and a temperature of 77ºF, the takeoff distance increases to 9,800 feet.
The G200 features fast cruise speeds for reduced flight times. Long range cruise is M0.75. Normal cruise is M0.80. High speed cruise is M0.82 and maximum operating speed is M0.85.
The airframe of the Gulftstream 200 was designed to be as aerodynamic as possible with the help of 3-D computer-aided structural analysis programs. The main structures are made out of aluminum alloys, titanium, and steel; composites are used for some secondary structures.
Fuel is stored in two wing tanks, two feed tanks, one center tank, one forward tank and fuselage tank. The fuel levels of the tanks are automatically equalized by gravity interconnect valves. It is a simple fuel system requiring no pilot action. It features an automatic fuel transfer system, a fuel jettison system and an automatic fueling shutoff.
While some here have said that the G200 is underwinged, the heavy loading of the wings makes the Gulfstream 200 handle turbulence far better than an aircraft with a lower wing loading. A long-travel trailing link landing gear smoothes out taxiing and landings. Hydraulically powered carbon anti-skid brakes and a 100º pivot radius of the nosewheel provide for excellent ground handling.
When compared to the CL300, the Gulfstream 200 has the larger cabin volume by a margin of 8 cubic feet. It also wins in the baggage category with about 45 extra cubic feet of heated and pressurized baggage space. If needed, the Gulfstream 200 can carry 1,600 pounds more payload than the Challenger 300.
According to Jet Advisor, the Gulfstream 200 outperforms the Challenger 300 in its fuel burn as well. On a 600 nautical mile trip with fuel reserves and four passengers, the G200 burns 8% less fuel.
The G200’s baggage area is 150 cubic feet and is rated for 1,980 pounds. The CL300’s baggage area is 106 cubic feet and holds 500 pounds (750 lbs. is available at extra cost).
The G200 offers a standard wood interior with selections of premium quality woods, fabrics, and metal plating. The standard interior of the CL300 is made of plastic laminates.
The G200 comes with Life Rafts and Large Capacity Oxygen Bottles standard. They are options on the CL300.
The G200 offers as standard equipment the Airshow Moving Map System with Total World Map Package (6 maps). The CL300 features a mapping system with one regional map.
The G200 has a 5 Gallon Pressurized Water System with a 10 Gallon No-cost Option Available. The CL300 has a 2 gallon gravity feed water system only.
The G200 Toilet Capacity is 8.7 Gallons. The CL300 has a 4 gallon toilet capacity which is not adequate for long trips.
The G200 is completed by Gulfstream at their Dallas Texas facility using premium materials. The CL300 uses third party kits averaging over 700 pounds above spec weight and uses lower quality materials and less durable components (such as plastic latches and door catches). Premium interiors equivalent to standard G200 interiors are an extra cost option.
The Challenger 300 has a much nosier in-flight cabin averaging over 60 dB SIL (FL410/Mach 0.75).
The G200 offers more standard avionics features.
The G200 has two Flight Management Systems (FMS) Standard. The CL300 has one Flight Management Systems (FMS) standard (a second FMS is Optional).
The G200 has Two GPS Receivers Standard. The CL300 has one GPS Receiver Standard (second GPS Receiver is Optional).
The G200 has two Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) systems standard. The CL300 has one Distance Measuring Equipment (DME) standard (second DME is Optional).
The G200 has an18 Inch Weather Radar with Dual Controls. The CL300 has a 14 Inch Weather Radar.
The G200 comes with an HF Radio Standard, the 2nd HF is a No Cost Option. The CL300 has an HF Radio as an option.
The G200 flight control system has full manual backup. The pilot can safely fly and land the G200 in the event of a full hydraulic failure. The system meets the latest certification requirements for jammed controls.
The G200 has a proven wing and horizontal tail de-ice system. It is a simple, reliable technology that has no performance degradation associated with the bleed anti-ice systems.
The G200 has a redundant hydraulic system with two independent systems with three pumps. In the event of total hydraulic loss, flight controls, landing gear, brakes, thrust reversers and flaps are still operational.
G200 Water System Servicing features Remote/External Servicing with Digital Quantity Indicator. The CL300 has a Removable Tank Requiring Manual Servicing and Access to the Cabin.
The G200’s APU is not needed for engine start. The engines can be started using only battery power. The starter/generator on the APU can be used to replace the engine starter/generator. The CL300 requires the APU for engine start. If the APU is inoperable, an Air Pressurization Cart, “Huffer”, is required to start the engines.
The Gulfstream G200 uses the PWC 300 engine as does the Falcon 2000EX, the Lear 60 the Citation Sovereign, the Envoy 3, the Falcon 7X, the Hawker 4000, and the Fairchild Dornier 328 Jet. The Honeywell HTF7000 is used only on theChallenger 300.
GVFlyer
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- Feb 22, 2002
- Posts
- 1,461
Since 2001 Gulfstream has implemented over 150 specific modifications to improve G200 reliability, quality and customer satisfaction. The current dispatch reliability rating of 99.82% means that of each 1,000 flights, the G200 will not dispatch only 1.8 times. The CL300’s NBAA metric of 99.46% means that the Challenger will fail to dispatch 5.4 times in a 1,000 or 2.8 times more frequently than the G200.
With the G200 you get top rated Gulfstream customer support. There are 12 company owned service centers – 6 Gulfstream service facilities and 6 General Dynamics Aviation Services facilities. Gulfstream has a worldwide support network with 14 authorized warranty centers and line service facilities in North and South America, Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia and Australia. Over $500M parts are located worldwide.
The G200 comes with 24-hour technical support. There are over 55 worldwide Field Service Team Members to support the G200. There is also World Wide Web support via mygulfstream.com. And, of course, there is the no-cost Airborne Product Support G100 to fly parts to AOG aircraft.
Compared to the CL300, the G200 is a relative bargain costing millions less and coming with significantly more standard equipment.
Finally, the CL300’s galley is only 34 inches long while the G200’s galley is largest in class at 50 inches long with a coffee maker, an air cooled storage area and a great microwave.
http://www.gulfstream.com/products/g200/
With the G200 you get top rated Gulfstream customer support. There are 12 company owned service centers – 6 Gulfstream service facilities and 6 General Dynamics Aviation Services facilities. Gulfstream has a worldwide support network with 14 authorized warranty centers and line service facilities in North and South America, Europe, Middle East, Africa, Asia and Australia. Over $500M parts are located worldwide.
The G200 comes with 24-hour technical support. There are over 55 worldwide Field Service Team Members to support the G200. There is also World Wide Web support via mygulfstream.com. And, of course, there is the no-cost Airborne Product Support G100 to fly parts to AOG aircraft.
Compared to the CL300, the G200 is a relative bargain costing millions less and coming with significantly more standard equipment.
Finally, the CL300’s galley is only 34 inches long while the G200’s galley is largest in class at 50 inches long with a coffee maker, an air cooled storage area and a great microwave.
http://www.gulfstream.com/products/g200/
GVFlyer
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- Feb 22, 2002
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and the G200 is so great it has sold XXX in how many years? and is going by by...nuff said. Nice sales pitch
There were 223 G200 deliveries through 31 January 2009. The G200 won't be going "Bye-Bye" until last quarter 2011 when G250 deliveries begin.
...and you're right, the G250 will be an outstanding growth derivative of the G200. It has an all-new, advanced transonic wing design that has been optimized for high-speed cruise and improved takeoff performance. At maximum takeoff weight, the G250 can take off from a 5,000-foot runway. Its 3,400-nautical-mile range means the G250 can fly nonstop from New York to London.
The G250 will have a Rockwell-Collins Pro Line Fusion Planeview 250 cockpit and "Green" 7,445 pound/thrust Honeywell HTF7250G engines. The jet will also feature the largest-in-class cabin with 19 windows and a two-windowed vacuum toilet equipped lavatory.
De-icing/anti-icing will be accomplished with a hot wing and stopping will be augmented by auto-brakes. I think it will be a great airplane.
LJ45
Well-known member
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- Jan 2, 2005
- Posts
- 1,080
I agree, the 250 will be nice airplane and better than the CL30. Now back to the sales pitch, how long did it take to sell 223 G200
??
thatpilotguy
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- Jan 21, 2005
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- 216
I like you GVFlyer...you have always been a great contributor to Flight info...your insight and experience far exceeds many here including myself. I can't begin to put together sales pitch like the one you have just posted.
When our owner was shopping he compared the G-200 and the CL-30 closely. Much of what you have said is accurate. We are based in Denver and when it came down to performance the CL-30 beat out the G-200 with the typical missions we operate. We are confirgured for 10 pax, with the potty seat and frequently see 8-9 passengers on trips. Often times these trips push the limits of the range of the 300, and would not be possible on the G-200. It's been several years now, but I would suggest that you compare a couple of typical trips you plan to utilize the new aircraft on and see how those numbers workout for you. That became the real selling point of the 300.
I'm lacking the time and reference material to put together a rebutal to GVFlyers posts...but I will say that the G-250 will be the real competator to the CL-30. The G-200 is not in the same league. It may have set the standard of what a super-midsized aircraft are all about, but it has been surpassed in the CL-30. I can't wait to see a G-250...it will be everything the 300 isn't and based on the information on the aircraft today, I would choose it over the 300 if we where making that decision today.
Here is a link that a quick google search turned up...if you have specific questions about the 300 feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to pass along any info I can.
http://www.jetadvisors.com/articles/2007-2-challenger-vs-gulfstream.htm
When our owner was shopping he compared the G-200 and the CL-30 closely. Much of what you have said is accurate. We are based in Denver and when it came down to performance the CL-30 beat out the G-200 with the typical missions we operate. We are confirgured for 10 pax, with the potty seat and frequently see 8-9 passengers on trips. Often times these trips push the limits of the range of the 300, and would not be possible on the G-200. It's been several years now, but I would suggest that you compare a couple of typical trips you plan to utilize the new aircraft on and see how those numbers workout for you. That became the real selling point of the 300.
I'm lacking the time and reference material to put together a rebutal to GVFlyers posts...but I will say that the G-250 will be the real competator to the CL-30. The G-200 is not in the same league. It may have set the standard of what a super-midsized aircraft are all about, but it has been surpassed in the CL-30. I can't wait to see a G-250...it will be everything the 300 isn't and based on the information on the aircraft today, I would choose it over the 300 if we where making that decision today.
Here is a link that a quick google search turned up...if you have specific questions about the 300 feel free to PM me. I'd be happy to pass along any info I can.
http://www.jetadvisors.com/articles/2007-2-challenger-vs-gulfstream.htm
Last edited:
GVFlyer
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I agree, the 250 will be nice airplane and better than the CL30. Now back to the sales pitch, how long did it take to sell 223 G200
Dunno. Gulfstream/General Dynamics bought Galaxy from the Pritzker family on 1 May 2001 and immediately sold 50 G200s to NetJets. Avolar had also committed to 67, but we all know what happened to them.
And the CL-350 will be again everything the G-250 isn't. Simple advancements in technology.
GVFlyer
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- Feb 22, 2002
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When will the CL-350 be delivered? Oh yeah, that's right, Bombardier has no current plans for a follow-on aircraft to the CL-300.
The next Bombardier Business Aircraft product to enter service will be the mid-size all-composite structured Learjet 85. The 85, which was announced in 2007, is ambitiously scheduled to enter service in 2013.
The next Bombardier Business Aircraft product to enter service will be the mid-size all-composite structured Learjet 85. The 85, which was announced in 2007, is ambitiously scheduled to enter service in 2013.
camper1159
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GVFlyer
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Last edited:
johnsonrod
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I wonder if Gulfstream would allow you to lease a G200 until the G250 arrives (trade in)? Anything is possible in this depressed economy... The G250 looks like a big improvement and may be worth waiting for.
Have you considered a Hawker 4000? There are probably a few of those sittaing around and Hawker is hurting bad for deals. Not sure how that compares to the G200/CL30 in terms of performance but I have heard some good things about the H4000 in general. I am pretty sure the H4000 beats the G200 in the performance category.
Have you considered a Hawker 4000? There are probably a few of those sittaing around and Hawker is hurting bad for deals. Not sure how that compares to the G200/CL30 in terms of performance but I have heard some good things about the H4000 in general. I am pretty sure the H4000 beats the G200 in the performance category.
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