I'll Call the F9 Bluff

[Zinger]

Respectfully...calling it as I see it.

 

[Porch]

5 stars to you if your correct

 

[Whine Lover]

Well...who's really bluffing here?

Gary/SWAPA or FAPA?

In pushing for anything other than what is being offered, FAPA is betting that Gary and friends are bluffing that they won't go ahead with the acquisition unless they have prior agreement on SLI.

Personally, I believe Gary and Co. are NOT bluffing. They will walk away rather than have the B.S. labor unrest that will come about if they acquire, and then have to deal with, an A/M & B/M arbitrated SLI.

Here's the deal, short and sweet the way I see it ( Who gives a Rat's ? )

If Frontier was tooling along, having exited Bankruptcy, with money in the bank and a profitable few quarters (years) behind it...WITHOUT QUESTION IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY THE RIGHT MOVE TO BE PLAYING HARDBALL WITH THIS.

In the current environment at Frontier ( BK with no exit finanncing ), airline industry shrinkage /reductions/furloughs, global recession, nation wide unemployment, shrinking economies, and not a pilot job on the friggin' horizon as far as the eye can see...IT IS ABSOLUTE FOOLISHNESS TO NOT JUST EMBRACE THE SWA OFFER AND THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS.

Calling a bluff is a fool's game at this juncture. Take the hand you've been dealt and run with it.

Just my silly opinion.

Correct me where my logic fails me if you would.

Thank you for shopping at Wal....Oh sorry, I'm off duty now.

YKME

 

[General Lee]

Why hasn't Gary Kelly already called off the deal, now? Do it NOW Gary, do it NOW. Come on! What, why not? Ohhhhhh. You actually wanted F9 and thought FAPA would just lay down to be Corndogs? Riiiight. How about showing some respect? Give them some credit for something.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[av88tor]

The "bluff" would fail because RAH would win the bid, no hard feelings, but SEE YA

 

[Richard Gozinya]

deleted.......again

 

[Whine Lover]

"Why hasn't Gary Kelly already called off the deal, now? Do it NOW Gary, do it NOW. Come on! What, why not?"

Why "Now" ?

They'll head back to the table and either come to an agreement or not. If they have an agreement, all is well for SWA and they will move forward. If not, it's on to Plan B. No Big deal for SWA.

Kelly doesn't give two sh!tes what that deal is ( within limits ) ...just that they have a deal and thereby ( pay attention Kids ) can AVOID an SLI via A/M & B/M and the associated strife inherent in that.

Example: You want that new boat. How bad do you want that new boat? Maybe if the owner drops his price a grand or two and replaces the stern drive you have a deal. No new stern drive? Whatever...You'll find another boat.

Gary want's that boat. Not without the stern drive....Sooo, they negotiate a bit and everyone's happy. La-De-Frickin'-Da.

No sense in rushing the process here...Hence, the extension etc.

Disclaimer: I am always wrong about everything.


YKIDGASR

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Why hasn't Gary Kelly already called off the deal, now? Do it NOW Gary, do it NOW. Come on! What, why not? Ohhhhhh. You actually wanted F9 and thought FAPA would just lay down to be Corndogs? Riiiight. How about showing some respect? Give them some credit for something.


Bye Bye--General Lee

When Delta "acquired" Comair, how much respect/seniority did those guys get?

 

[General Lee]

When Delta "acquired" Comair, how much respect/seniority did those guys get?

The same amount you will give the Lynx guys, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

When Delta "acquired" Comair, how much respect/seniority did those guys get?

They got to keep all the seniority they brought in their own company. There was never a merger, nor a requirement to merge. Not the same case here.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

When Delta "acquired" Comair, how much respect/seniority did those guys get?

Well, since you guys and comair are both PFT, I can see why you have sympathy for them!

 

['LUVIN LIFE]

Why hasn't Gary Kelly already called off the deal, now? Do it NOW Gary, do it NOW. Come on! What, why not? Ohhhhhh. You actually wanted F9 and thought FAPA would just lay down to be Corndogs? Riiiight. How about showing some respect? Give them some credit for something.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good call General.

 

[Fly-diver]

Why hasn't Gary Kelly already called off the deal, now? Do it NOW Gary, do it NOW. Come on! What, why not? Ohhhhhh. You actually wanted F9 and thought FAPA would just lay down to be Corndogs? Riiiight. How about showing some respect? Give them some credit for something.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Oops... uh... nevermind.

 

[JOPILOT]

From what I have witnessed, commuting in and out of DIA the last 3 years SWA is the only carrier operating flights that are considerably empty. This includes UAL, which with respect to their pilots, treats their customers like dogsh!t. G. Kelly says he is comfortable with how SWA is doing in the Denver market, but I think this is just a front for one of their only mistakes in recent years, add this to their decision to operate in the New York Market and compete with RJ's, you will see SWA shrink considerably in the next two years. It is going to be pretty difficult to pay those high wages as the pilot group matures into higher pay rates without fuel hedge advantages to take advantage of. I may be wrong, but the poolies may be swimming for years to come without F9 and their routes into Mexico, DCA, and Canada. I commend the F9 union for telling them to go sh!t in their hat... that is if they wore them that is JP

 

[SWA/FO]

Good luck with Republic!

 

[starchkr]

Good luck with Republic!

Sarcasm felt...and Thank you...sarcasm shot back.

Nice to know i will have a job next week now, that i am proud of. Our union did not lay down and take it up the arse like yours wanted them to. I actually have a lot of respect for them right now.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

The same amount you will give the Lynx guys, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Impressive response.......not!

I guess we will never know how good/bad that the Lynx folks would have made out. Best of luck to all at F9.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Let us know how all that respect puts food on the table, and puts your kids through school...

Sarcasm felt...and Thank you...sarcasm shot back.

Nice to know i will have a job next week now, that i am proud of. Our union did not lay down and take it up the arse like yours wanted them to. I actually have a lot of respect for them right now.

 

[vance]

It's just business folks.

This is just business. Stay classy. The world wouldn't stop rotating with either direction the judge ruled. Regardless of what reaction the F9 guys have chosen to take from this decision, I wish you guys well. I certainly hope we can all have a drink one day on an overnight and realize each company and union did what was best for ourselves. I know there's a lot of third-party pot-stirring going on, but let's all chill out and take notice, the world's still rotating. If anyone at SWA treats you F9 guys less than you feel you deserve, please remember it doesn't represent us all and we shouldn't condone it. I hope we can sense the same sentiment from F9.

Oh, also, if you're commuting on SWA and decide to observe our load factors and build a case for our demise. At least have the common courtesy to at least say, ",but thanks for the ride and letting me spread out for a change." Have the maturity to chill out with the typical chest-thumping airline BS and be appreciative of your ability to commute regardless of what airline you're doing it on. To do otherwise, makes you look like a tool.

 

[ivauir]

F9 guys ...sorry it didn't work out.

I heard your guys got 75% of what they asked for in the SLI and instead of negotiating asked for more.

Also heard they never came off of their position that their #1 (hired in 94) should go after the SWA (#1 hired in 74).

So basically your team thought you deserved your seniority at our pay rates. I hope you ask them about it, and that they really thought about what RAH was going to be like.

 

[StopNTSing]

From what I have witnessed, commuting in and out of DIA the last 3 years SWA is the only carrier operating flights that are considerably empty. This includes UAL, which with respect to their pilots, treats their customers like dogsh!t. G. Kelly says he is comfortable with how SWA is doing in the Denver market, but I think this is just a front for one of their only mistakes in recent years, add this to their decision to operate in the New York Market and compete with RJ's, you will see SWA shrink considerably in the next two years.

Okay, so lets get a quick score on the Denver "mistake".
1) Southwest flights observed to be "considerably empty" by jumpseater from other airline (a highly accurate and respected metric of airline financial performance)
2) Southwest supposedly losing money in DIA (perhaps, depending upon how one does the math...us line-swine will probably never be privy to the real numbers, so who knows?)
3) Of the two other major players in the DIA market, one is currently CH11 and the other is widely acknowledged to be rudderless and on life-support.

Yes, when you total it all up, DEN has been a big mistake for SWA. I guess some investments just take longer than others to pay off.

As for the other pending mistake in LGA, I don't know of too many instances where the RJ has prevailed over a Boeing in a capacity-constrained market like NYC. If anything, it sounds like a case of bringing a knife to a gun fight.

It is going to be pretty difficult to pay those high wages as the pilot group matures into higher pay rates without fuel hedge advantages to take advantage of. I may be wrong, but the poolies may be swimming for years to come without F9 and their routes into Mexico, DCA, and Canada. I commend the F9 union for telling them to go sh!t in their hat... that is if they wore them that is JP

On this we can agree. Our poolies may be swimming a long time (who knows where this economy is heading?), but at least now they won't have be swimming behind 700 F9 pilots. I also commend FAPA for telling us to sh!t in our hats (some do still wear the hat here, though they are viewed with suspicion by their peers.) Our union made an offer, believed it to be fair based upon the (unfortunate) negotiating position F9 finds itself in along with SWAPA's fiduciary duty to look first after current SWA pilots, and it was judged as wanting by FAPA. No hard feelings anyone. Perhaps Republic will prove to be the better option for the employees of F9.....and if it is not, then don't go blaming us.

 

[firstthird]

well said.

(some do still wear the hat here, though they are viewed with suspicion by their peers.)

awesome observation.

 

[JOPILOT]

StopNTSing,

I never meant to have hard numbers on SWA performance in DEN, only and observation which as you mentioned is probably as accurate as anything? although I recall Gary Kelly mentioning last week that the acquiring of F9 would help solidify 7 of 13 SWA weakest markets?--Denver Post I believe?

Now as far as being a prudent move to not roll over for SWAPA? It might have been a poor decision, maybe not. We will have to wait and see how F9/ Republic compete with your culture. I have friends at both places and also some swimmers that I would like to see back in the saddle ASAP.

You have to agree that it is nice to see some backbone being shown in this industry, even though it may end up being the more difficult path for F9.

As far as the hat goes, no suspicion from a guy that has to wear the full U-boat Commander get-up 7 months a year, personally I would trade it all for a Leather Jacket and a recycle bin for my hat

I wish both pilot groups the best, although I get the feeling that the SWA group neither wants well wishes nor needs them. JP

 

[Mach 80]

The poker game may have gone a level deeper than anyone knows. There's a school of thought that Gary Kelly didn't really want F9 but had an ulterior motive for making a bid and knowing that the pilots would never agree had his automatic out.

 

[Whine Lover]

" There's a school of thought..."

Well, then there's that whole "moon landing" thing too... Right?

Discuss.

YKMKR