FAPA CA's

[shootr]

F9 CA's,

As your union has told our union, seat protection is more important than pay protection. How would this hypothetical sound to you?

-All FO's stapled

-All CA's stapled to bottom of CA list with these stipulations...

1. All SWA pilots are senior to you and when they upgrade they pass you

2. You receive F9 CA pay (post chapter 11) until the 1st F9 FO upgrades to SWA CA

This deal would not go through because it would still delay SWAPA pilots upgrades. Just wanted to see if you would be willing to be CA's on our list under YOUR current pay vice ours.

shootr

 

[Fubijaakr]

Or how about if you just respect the law of the land and go for a ratioed list? How about that?

 

[shootr]

Good one!

 

[slaquer5]

Or how about if you just respect the law of the land and go for a ratioed list? How about that?

That is what they are going for. Time to sit back and see how smart F9 played it. In 2 yrs we will see how well they fared at RAH. Time will tell.
Maybe being a Go Jet pilot is not that bad, who's to say.

 

[General Lee]

F9 CA's,

As your union has told our union, seat protection is more important than pay protection. How would this hypothetical sound to you?

-All FO's stapled

-All CA's stapled to bottom of CA list with these stipulations...

1. All SWA pilots are senior to you and when they upgrade they pass you

2. You receive F9 CA pay (post chapter 11) until the 1st F9 FO upgrades to SWA CA

This deal would not go through because it would still delay SWAPA pilots upgrades. Just wanted to see if you would be willing to be CA's on our list under YOUR current pay vice ours.

shootr

Hey wait a second, we can ALL see that you are looking at seat protection yourself---protecting the Capt upgrade you know will be there sooner if an F9 deal is completed. You don't care about the F9 guys at all. We didn't staple the Pan Am guys at DL when they were going down, and our financials back then were better than SWA's today. You are going for a seniority grab..........a Staple is not fair, period. Should it be DOH or relative? No. But a staple is ridiculous when F9 brings marketshare and terminals to the deal. You know this too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Good one!

Of course you think that way. Man alive, talk about cocky. Gary Kelly is having second thoughts alright I bet, about telling you guys that SWAPA should make the decision. The thing is that F9 will not just go away if SWA doesn't make it work, it will become a stronger competitor than it is in it's current form. It won't just go away. You pretend like it will, and that is what you are trying to "sell" here today. You also know that thanks to age 65, your upgrades have slowed to almost a standstill, and you want progression. That won't happen fast if the F9 deal doesn't go down LIKE YOU WANT IT TO. Good for FAPA.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[shootr]

Again, we have nothing to lose if this all goes away. They have everything to lose. Just wondering how they'd feel about being on SWA list with none of the SWAPA bennies. Obviously, that won't happen. Just calling them out on putting seat protection above pay protection. Right... They want F9 seat protection and SWA pay.

 

[FDJ2]

F9 pilots would be fools to submit to the bullying tactics and threats from SWAPA. They should demand that their rights be respected and that a process resulting in a fair and equitable integrated seniority list be utilized. SWAPA pilots have nothing to fear from the A-M LPPs which will result in a fair and equitable list based on facts, reason and logic that recognizes each groups contribution to the new enterprise, not a list that is the result of threats, fear and greed.

 

[shootr]

Greed? F9 CA's wanting CA seats and SWA pay is not greed?

 

[General Lee]

F9 pilots would be fools to submit to the bullying tactics and threats from SWAPA. They should demand that their rights be respected and that a process resulting in a fair and equitable integrated seniority list be utilized. SWAPA pilots have nothing to fear from the A-M LPPs which will result in a fair and equitable list based on facts, reason and logic that recognizes each groups contribution to the new enterprise, not a list that is the result of threats, fear and greed.

You are correct. This is pure bullying, and we all know what is going on here. The SWA guys are ONLY concerned with faster upgrades that could come with a larger DEN presence.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyinGuy]

FDJ2....The F9 pilots bring nothing to the table, yet they are asking for everything! astonishing....I hope they go to RAH and enjoy the life of luxury that they want. Fair integration includes everything not just seniority! You have to look at the whole picture. If they get what they are asking for the bankrupt carrier will get a "windfall". No one is talking about the SWAPA protections, just the protections of the F9 guys.. I truly wish them the best, but you have to be realistic about what you are demanding.

 

[FDJ2]

Greed? F9 CA's wanting CA seats and SWA pay is not greed?

Probably too early to say, on the surface I'd say, no, it's not. If they bring a captain's seat to the merger on a similar gauge aircraft their contribution ought to be respected. However, final determination ought to come under an agreed to process, failing that A-M LPPs should determine what is fair and equitable after each side presents their arguments. It's called due process and barring a mutually agreeable solution it's the best way to resolve the issue.

 

[General Lee]

Greed? F9 CA's wanting CA seats and SWA pay is not greed?

That happened with DL's Pan Am purchase too. Some 747 drivers rebid into DL 767ER left seats almost immediately, and finished their careers still flying to Europe, but with better pay and a DL uniform. It happens. Now, I don't think every F9 guy should be thrown in there in the exact seat they are in now, but a staple is ridiculous. Sorry, that is asking for too much, and makes you look like the greedy one, since you will benefit from what they do bring to the table. You are negating everything they bring, and you will lose out if this doesn't go also. If you don't care, then don't respond. It is obvious all of you SWA guys know what good things could happen, and you are trying to roll the dice too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[OK3]

You guys are missing the point. The "law of the land" has no standing here b/c we won't buy them if we can't agree to terms first. I know that as a middle of the road SWA FO I breathed a huge sigh of relief when I read this deal is falling apart. How did an F9 pilot feel when he read the same thing? The answer to that is the true measure of "career expectations".

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2....The F9 pilots bring nothing to the table, yet they are asking for everything! astonishing....I hope they go to RAH and enjoy the life of luxury that they want. Fair integration includes everything not just seniority! You have to look at the whole picture. If they get what they are asking for the bankrupt carrier will get a "windfall". No one is talking about the SWAPA protections, just the protections of the F9 guys.. I truly wish them the best, but you have to be realistic about what you are demanding.

You mean they PERSONALLY don't bring anything to the table, (you think they would all fail your interviews) or F9 doesn't bring anything to the table? Gary Kelly doesn't think so. You immediately would dominate DEN by far, you get a Dash-8-400 operation, and you cut down on a new, larger competitor--Republic. Why can't you see that? You only see $$$$ for your faster upgrade. You don't give them any credit, and their current contract ties them in with the company. Wow, talk about cocky.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MCDU]

What a disgrace the SWA pilots are trying to staple the F9 pilots. The SWA pilots are a classic case of PFT generation, who think they deserve everything. The fact is that the vast majority of SWA pilots paid for their jobs. They had to go out and pay for a 737 type to get considered. That is PFT. Frontier got theirs the honest way.

M

 

[shootr]

Why are you guys that have no bone in this discussion getting so involved? I'm actually quite impressed by F9 pilots' current disipline in not getting involved, right now.

 

[dlzav8tr]

The probleme with a staple from a middle of the road f9 fo standpoint is that it will most likely result in a furlough. WN stating they only wanted 40 aircraft pretty much gauranteed this.

 

[NOZ]

The probleme with a staple from a middle of the road f9 fo standpoint is that it will most likely result in a furlough. WN stating they only wanted 40 aircraft pretty much gauranteed this.

[FONT=ARIAL,]From the Dallas Morning News: "Frontier’s pilot union rejected the offer from SWAPA that included job protections for ALL Frontier pilots, pay increases of up to 40 percent when Frontier pilots transitioned over to Southwest’s seniority list and other considerations."
[/FONT]

 

[Scope out RJ's]

If SWAPA has its way with the staple, it's furlough fodder for the junior SWA pilots.