Delta AE Surplus Bid:

[Sedona16]

Delta AE Vacancy/Surplus Bid:

The August 2009 Advance Entitlement/Surplus bid will support the proposed last quarter 2009 and first quarter 2010 Network block hour plan. The following are the key points for this bid:

· This Advance Entitlement/Surplus bid is set to align our staffing based on the planned increased utilization of aircraft on the 73N and M88 fleets.

· The domestic 757/767 fleet was reduced and the domestic 757/767 pilot block hours continue to remain lower. This has resulted in surpluses on the ATL and LAX 767 Captain and ATL, LAX, and SLC First Officer positions. These surpluses will be used to increase our 73N and M88 staffing.

· We have decided for increased operational flexibility that we will continue what we started on the January bid and eliminate the LAX 767 categories and grow the LAX 7ER categories. A majority of the LAX 767 positions being eliminated are being added to the LAX 7ER categories.The planned flying for the LAX 7ER categories will include a mix of domestic and international flying.

· Due to the changes in the network schedule, we are seeing an increase in our system credit on the 73N. This increase in credit hours, along with the planned increased aircraft block hours, is driving increased staffing requirements in the 73N Captain and First Officer positions.

· Keep in mind, even though surpluses may not be posted in your category, as the bid is processed contingency surpluses may be created in your category so you may want to update your AE, VD, and MD bid preferences.
· This bid will be effective for 210 days.

· The projected training start from this bid will be September 2009 with all conversions being completed by March 2010.
· The next bid is planned for January 2010 and may be the first DL North and South combined bid, subject to SOC.

· Currently, DL North is in the process of awarding the final APA for the DL North pilots. This current bid award will include the closing of the 747-200 categories, necessary backfills for the PRIP participants, and other adjustments to align staffing based on the current Network winter and spring planned block hours.

We will continue to communicate any updates in the fleet and network plans as we continue to position ourselves for a successful future.




Number of
Category Vacancies Reason
ATL 73N CAPT 10 Increased utilization
ATL 73N F/O 13 Increased utilization
ATL M88 F/O 5 Increased utilization
CVG 73N CAPT 5 Increased utilization
CVG 73N F/O 10 Increased utilization
CVG M88 F/O 5 Increased utilization
LAX 7ER CAPT 94 Shift in Flying
LAX 7ER F/O 90 Shift in Flying
NYC 73N CAPT 5 Increased utilization
NYC M88 CAPT 10 Increased utilization
NYC 73N F/O 12 Increased utilization
NYC M88 F/O 15 Increased utilization

Number of
Category Surpluses Reason
ATL 767 CAPT 15 Adjustment
ATL 767 F/O 45 Adjustment
LAX 767 CAPT 109 Shift in Flying
LAX 767 F/O 102 Shift in Flying
SLC 767 F/O 3 Adjustment

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Looks like you will still have at least 130 07/08 hires on the ER in NYC. Probably more, but that takes in to account all 45 going to the ER from the 767.

 

[regionalcap]

Just a side note, most of the ones that will be displaced on the 757 were hired prior to 07. Only the bottom 15 were hired in 07-08. It will be interesting to see how many will choose the ER in NYC.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well it is an easy commute and it might be worth the extra 2-3K a month for a guy that flies a lot.
You have to work a lot harder to get what most got sitting reserve on the 767.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Well it is an easy commute and it might be worth the extra 2-3K a month for a guy that flies a lot.
You have to work a lot harder to get what most got sitting reserve on the 767.

Very true! Can you guys hold ATL 73N?

ATL 767 to ATL -88 would be quite the shock to the system!

Depending on where other ER displacers came from I would think all ATL 767 guys would still be holding lines up in NYC.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Very true! Can you guys hold ATL 73N?

ATL 767 to ATL -88 would be quite the shock to the system!

Depending on where other ER displacers came from I would think all ATL 767 guys would still be holding lines up in NYC.

Yes, the most senior 07 hires have about 180 bodies below them on the NYC ER and about 90 line holders.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Heck...might as well give it a go!

If they ended up not liking it chances are they'd be able to bid right back out of it when the chaos of moving the 767-400's in begins.

 

[ultrarunner]

...Well it is an easy commute...

JFK? An easy commute?

From where, Farmingdale?

 

[tbkane]

Nope the traffic sucks from Farmingldale too! There is no good commute to JFK. ATL to NYC is FULL of commuters good luck with that one. Then you have a 20 dollar cab ride and forget about it with weather or snow...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Nope the traffic sucks from Farmingldale too! There is no good commute to JFK. ATL to NYC is FULL of commuters good luck with that one. Then you have a 20 dollar cab ride and forget about it with weather or snow...

Could be worse. I'll take that commute twice a month.

 

[tbkane]

ACL that is fine just anyone senior to me the commute still sucks!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You see that MKE-ATL went to five 88's and one CR9 a day. Now that is improvement we can talk about!

Commute is not bad. You just have to be willing to bid some of the longer trips, much like you do!

 

[tbkane]

Alas that is just for August so they are saying. We are not keeping five 88s a day.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Alas that is just for August so they are saying. We are not keeping five 88s a day.

I guess they are doing it for Irish Fest!

 

[jetjockey#1]

Well it is an easy commute and it might be worth the extra 2-3K a month for a guy that flies a lot.
You have to work a lot harder to get what most got sitting reserve on the 767.

Commuting to JFK is pretty much impossible unless you get the jumpseat at 12:00 and 01 second. LGA used to be a reasonable option up to 2 months ago. This morning at 7:55 AM out of LGA there were 87 standbys on the list for 7 available seats. jumpseats taken (pilot and fa), 2 pilots and 3 f/a did not make it. So, no NYC is not an easy commute, at least out of ATL. As far as twice a month, you may be the first one able to do that, please let me know how. Everybody I know have to commute at least 3-4 times for 85 hours.

The general feeling for most 07-08 hire guys on the ER at NY is commute sucks, international reserve is brutal, and not worth it. So, just about 1 out of 2 are ready to get back to domestic, specially the 100ish ATL commuters to NYC. Numbers don't lie, look at travelnet and pilot's schedules. Good luck to us all.

 

[3ds]

Commuting to JFK is pretty much impossible unless you get the jumpseat at 12:00 and 01 second. LGA used to be a reasonable option up to 2 months ago. This morning at 7:55 AM out of LGA there were 87 standbys on the list for 7 available seats. jumpseats taken (pilot and fa), 2 pilots and 3 f/a did not make it. So, no NYC is not an easy commute, at least out of ATL. As far as twice a month, you may be the first one able to do that, please let me know how. Everybody I know have to commute at least 3-4 times for 85 hours.

The general feeling for most 07-08 hire guys on the ER at NY is commute sucks, international reserve is brutal, and not worth it. So, just about 1 out of 2 are ready to get back to domestic, specially the 100ish ATL commuters to NYC. Numbers don't lie, look at travelnet and pilot's schedules. Good luck to us all.

there's a reason new hires went to the nyc 7er. works well for some but obviously not all.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Yeah it's all relative.

The commute can definitely be difficult depending on where your coming from.

Of the 10 or so guys I know sitting reserve on the ER in NY not one plans on bidding off and all have their fingers crossed they don't get bumped off so the pro's must outweigh the cons.

That said all of the guys that would bid in would not be on reserve...might push others into it though.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Commuting to JFK is pretty much impossible unless you get the jumpseat at 12:00 and 01 second. LGA used to be a reasonable option up to 2 months ago. This morning at 7:55 AM out of LGA there were 87 standbys on the list for 7 available seats. jumpseats taken (pilot and fa), 2 pilots and 3 f/a did not make it. So, no NYC is not an easy commute, at least out of ATL. As far as twice a month, you may be the first one able to do that, please let me know how. Everybody I know have to commute at least 3-4 times for 85 hours.

The general feeling for most 07-08 hire guys on the ER at NY is commute sucks, international reserve is brutal, and not worth it. So, just about 1 out of 2 are ready to get back to domestic, specially the 100ish ATL commuters to NYC. Numbers don't lie, look at travelnet and pilot's schedules. Good luck to us all.

Sounds like fun...NOT! I'll pass...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I know MYR is a lot more fun than PSA, or FRA, or maybe even CDG.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Commuting to JFK is pretty much impossible unless you get the jumpseat at 12:00 and 01 second. LGA used to be a reasonable option up to 2 months ago. This morning at 7:55 AM out of LGA there were 87 standbys on the list for 7 available seats. jumpseats taken (pilot and fa), 2 pilots and 3 f/a did not make it. So, no NYC is not an easy commute, at least out of ATL. As far as twice a month, you may be the first one able to do that, please let me know how. Everybody I know have to commute at least 3-4 times for 85 hours.

The general feeling for most 07-08 hire guys on the ER at NY is commute sucks, international reserve is brutal, and not worth it. So, just about 1 out of 2 are ready to get back to domestic, specially the 100ish ATL commuters to NYC. Numbers don't lie, look at travelnet and pilot's schedules. Good luck to us all.

Yes, but I would not be planning on starting trips on Monday. Maybe Wed or Thurs, but not Mon. That is a horrible day of the week to travel to NYC.
I know many that do it, and have done it for 10+ years. They will take that flying and commute any day of the week over the flying done in ATL.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I know MYR is a lot more fun than PSA, or FRA, or maybe even CDG.

Having lot's of time off and visiting places on time off is fun...Commuting is not....MYR can be fun for an overnight (very fun actually). Germany is fun also. I'm going to work 6 days next month....I'll fun somewhere....

Commuting is going to get tougher with the schedule draw down.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Airport Standby List

• Flight# 1516 ( ATL - JFK)

Looks like the first flight to JFK left with seat open!










Seats Remaining:
0
= FIRST
0
= BUSINESS
25
= COACH

 

[jetjockey#1]

Yes, but I would not be planning on starting trips on Monday. Maybe Wed or Thurs, but not Mon. That is a horrible day of the week to travel to NYC.
I know many that do it, and have done it for 10+ years. They will take that flying and commute any day of the week over the flying done in ATL.

No doubt the flying is great. JFK is great for all the different trips, ATL is great because usually you have to work one trip less a month than you do out of JFK. If you can make the commute doable JFK is the place to be. Off course make sure you can sleep anywhere anytime and find a good GI doc..... Welcome to international!!!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Having lot's of time off and visiting places on time off is fun...Commuting is not....MYR can be fun for an overnight (very fun actually). Germany is fun also. I'm going to work 6 days next month....I'll fun somewhere....

Commuting is going to get tougher with the schedule draw down.

17 days off and 85 hrs of credit for a guy that has been here two years as well as about 110K a year is worth a little hassle!

 

[JoeMerchant]

17 days off and 85 hrs of credit for a guy that has been here two years as well as about 110K a year is worth a little hassle!

I will admit that is good...However that is the exception and not the rule for those who have left to the majors in the past 10 years....Not everyone can claim that. Many Delta newhires haven't had it as good as you. When were you hired?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will admit that is good...However that is the exception and not the rule for those who have left to the majors in the past 10 years....Not everyone can claim that. Many Delta newhires haven't had it as good as you. When were you hired?

A few years ago. I admit that you need to either sit reserve in base, commute to a good line, or fly super junior jets and live with the pay you get.

Fact is that a 10 year guy is doing quite well. Senior international line holder in NYC or a decent line holder in ATL. Now a guy hired in 2000 or 2001 has a totally different story. I agree with that.
A 12 year guy has been senior most of his career or is now a jr CA on the 88. As with everything being in the front of the curve is a lot different than being on the back side of it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Joe that is what a 2007 hire is doing. A guy hired in 2001 or 2000 is making about 10 to 20K more a year than that on the ER in JFK!

 

[JoeMerchant]

A few years ago. I admit that you need to either sit reserve in base, commute to a good line, or fly super junior jets and live with the pay you get.

Fact is that a 10 year guy is doing quite well. Senior international line holder in NYC or a decent line holder in ATL. Now a guy hired in 2000 or 2001 has a totally different story. I agree with that.
A 12 year guy has been senior most of his career or is now a jr CA on the 88. As with everything being in the front of the curve is a lot different than being on the back side of it.

Timing and luck have a lot to do with this business...and it affects one's perspective. This is the third downturn I have seen since I started in this business...and each one has been worse than the previous. Many who left for United and USAir 10-20 years ago would gladly trade place with you.

Are you on second or third year pay?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Timing and luck have a lot to do with this business...and it affects one's perspective. This is the third downturn I have seen since I started in this business...and each one has been worse than the previous. Many who left for United and USAir 10-20 years ago would gladly trade place with you.

Are you on second or third year pay?

I agree, you have been at EC since 1993. Your seniority is great. I know that. I was in the top 300 when I left. Even giving up that kind of schedule authority pales in comparison.
Even under an concessionary contract, the QOL of life here in the bottom 1500 is much better than being in the top 300 there.
It will take me a long time to make what I did as a LCA, but that too is gone from the new EV contract. Fact is that I looked at where EV was going and the whole FFD model and realized that when I was in my 40's, I would be stuck at a shrinking airline.
Yes, the first five to seven years here will be OK at best, but looking long term, I am easily in the top 1% for the last eight and a half years of my career, and I was not the youngest by a long shot.

I also have buddies that went to UAUA, and AMR that will be happy to upgrade by the time they are 50. It sucks, but something has to give, this industry cannot go much farther down.
I personally see myself waiting to upgrade until my mid 40's at the earliest. It is about QOL, and a senior FO often times makes more than a junior FO.

I am one guy that will ride this in to the ground and if and when this goes, I will just move to a different career. I will be happy knowing that I took the chance on a major and if it burns me, so be it.
Fact is that for now, I sleep well at night knowing that for now I will get two paychecks a month and my kids will get what they need. Perspective allows me to know that many of my friends outside of this industry and in a lot worse shape than I. There is a time and a place for everything, and in a few years we will be in that time and place.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I agree, you have been at EC since 1993. Your seniority is great. I know that. I was in the top 300 when I left. Even giving up that kind of schedule authority pales in comparison.
Even under an concessionary contract, the QOL of life here in the bottom 1500 is much better than being in the top 300 there.
It will take me a long time to make what I did as a LCA, but that too is gone from the new EV contract. Fact is that I looked at where EV was going and the whole FFD model and realized that when I was in my 40's, I would be stuck at a shrinking airline.
Yes, the first five to seven years here will be OK at best, but looking long term, I am easily in the top 1% for the last eight and a half years of my career, and I was not the youngest by a long shot.

I also have buddies that went to UAUA, and AMR that will be happy to upgrade by the time they are 50. It sucks, but something has to give, this industry cannot go much farther down.
I personally see myself waiting to upgrade until my mid 40's at the earliest. It is about QOL, and a senior FO often times makes more than a junior FO.

I am one guy that will ride this in to the ground and if and when this goes, I will just move to a different career. I will be happy knowing that I took the chance on a major and if it burns me, so be it.
Fact is that for now, I sleep well at night knowing that for now I will get two paychecks a month and my kids will get what they need. Perspective allows me to know that many of my friends outside of this industry and in a lot worse shape than I. There is a time and a place for everything, and in a few years we will be in that time and place.

I agree with EVERYTHING you just said, except the part about the QOL being better at the bottom there than it is at the top here. I mean it when I say that it could only get better if they paid me to stay home. My last week of vacation was turned into 5 weeks. As I said before, I will work 6 days in Sept. If the bottom 1500 are doing that well, then Delta will be in trouble.

The FFD thing is going to change. We will need to become more competitive. I also believe Jerry has a plan B, C, and probably D to deal with the change. I thing you will see the bigger regionals split away and start up their own operations with the 100 seaters...Republic is going to test the waters. Jerry will be more conservative and wait for the timing to be right.

I am older than you and will not chase the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...Like you, I am going to ride this into the ground also....Time will tell how we all did...