Advance entitlement possiblities at Delta

[Linedriver]

Anyone have good intel on a possible AE after the move to single operating certificate at Delta? Trying to get to Memphis on the 9.

 

[Diesel-9]

The first ? is will S.O.C. be done by Jan. 2010. Probably not but soon there after with an A.E. to follow. The -9 base in MEM has shrunk quite a bit. I would guess many live in base but enought don't and will bid out and open up positions. I think that MEM and CVG may be going away down the road. Praying for a DFW base.

 

[Redtailer]

Unless there is a lot of movemtent around the combined system I wouldn't count on getting MEM in the near future. The history of the base is like this. When it first opened it was the junior base, however after a few years a lot of folks either moved there or bid it because of the commute. When the downsizing took place several years ago it kicked a lot of folks out except for the senior guys. Hence, it is now more senior than even MSP.

The other hindering factor is that there are not normally positions made available in MEM. Usually it is only 2-3 positions at a time. Not saying that it won't happen, but there are things you can look for to see if a position will come available. I personally know several guys in MEM that really want ATL. In short if they are able to bid ATL with no problem then there will be several positions in MEM available.

If you live in MEM, then the easiest way in is reserve on the bus. VERY junior. Block bus is extremely senior.

 

[nwaf16dude]

Will be interesting to see how/if that changes with the separate block/reserve positions going away.

 

[FlyinPiker]

Will be interesting to see how/if that changes with the separate block/reserve positions going away.

Very true...there's nothing worse than riding that block/reserve borderline not knowing what your going to get each month.

Actually I take that back. I'm about mid block in my position. Mentally I think I'm senior enough to get some of the things I bid for but every month it depends on what's left...at lest at the bottom you know you have the choice of reserve or a crap schedule (which even a crap schedule doesn't seem to be too bad unless your on the 737 in LA or NY).

 

[nwaf16dude]

What makes the 737 in LA and NY so bad?

 

[FlyinPiker]

What makes the 737 in LA and NY so bad?

Well probably a couple of things, but for starters your dealing with multiple airports at both and they aren't exactly down the road from each other. If you're senior enough you get to pick and choose...otherwise you have to pick your battles.

Last time I looked NY had a lot of trips that ended with red eyes. Not bad if you like that kind of thing, but I noticed it seems to screw up the trip credits and a lot of these guys end up with less days off for less credit than other fleets.

Will have to look at Sept bid packets when they come out here in a few days.

Great Airplane though!

 

[nwaf16dude]

Didn't think about the multiple airports thing...which airports do you have to cover in LA? I know it can take most of a day to get from LAX to ONT.

 

[Sinca3]

Very true...there's nothing worse than riding that block/reserve borderline not knowing what your going to get each month.

Every month prior to bidding Planning puts out an estimated number of lines that will be constructed for the upcoming months bid. It is usually within a couple of numbers of being correct.
So you have a pretty good idea that you are going to be resv or able to hold a line. I know it is the exact system FNWA has/had, but it might be something many of you didn't know about. It has been accurate enough for me to use in the past when on resv hoping for a line.
The trick is bid for the type of line you want, knowing you probably aren't senior enough to hold it. Then bid all the resv. lines you want knowing you will probably ge what you want being senior resv. Then hope for the best, it really isn't a bad system, but everything is relative.

Cheers

 

[~~~^~~~]

Reserves? They have nearly none on the narrow body fleet.

 

[michael707767]

Very true...there's nothing worse than riding that block/reserve borderline not knowing what your going to get each month.

Hey they way I've always looked at it was I can get a line every now and then, or under your system I could be on reserve 100% of the time. Some may prefer your system, but I would at least like the possibility of getting a line sometimes.

There are other advantages too. A guy who is a junior line holder can bid reserve on purpose if he needs a certain day off, or to get a holiday off. Or if it looks like the reserve coverage may be good one month, you can bid reserve to get some more time at home. Or the reverse. If reserve coverage is going to be bad, you can bid reserve and do the rolling thunder thing with reserve greenslips.

 

[avrodriver]

I agree the one list thing is a better deal although I have no idea how the NW system worked. Could block holders still bid reserve when they wanted to?

I'm really looking forward to flying out of the midwest again. I have family all around there so I'm hoping if I get stranded and can't commute home I can hopefully at least find a flight going to FSD, OMA, DSM, or CID and pop in for a visit! =)

Now the winters are going to be another story.

 

[michael707767]

Hey...easy...I'm a southie! =)

I bailed out from under the Northwest Umbrella after my first 2 years at Mesaba...10 years later I never thought I might be flying out of MSP again.

Random industry.

Yep. I never even applied to NW. Took one look at their bases and said no way. Now I may have to fly out of one when the NW guys start to bail and move to ATL.

Very random industry.

 

[lakemead1]

Didn't think about the multiple airports thing...which airports do you have to cover in LA? I know it can take most of a day to get from LAX to ONT.

I'm LAX based and we have to cover SNA and ONT also. I've never done a trip out of ONT but I have done several out of SNA. It's a $34 shuttle ride down there from LAX. Lately the SNA trips have been really uncomutable, they start with the first departure out in the morning (6:45) and end with the last one in at night from SLC which gets in about 10 pm. So if you commute you have to get a hotel on each end of the trip.

 

[Linedriver]

The first ? is will S.O.C. be done by Jan. 2010. Probably not but soon there after with an A.E. to follow. The -9 base in MEM has shrunk quite a bit. I would guess many live in base but enought don't and will bid out and open up positions. I think that MEM and CVG may be going away down the road. Praying for a DFW base.

I have heard SOC will be in the spring sometime - all rumor though.

I too thought CVG and MEM would go away in the future but I had a trip through MEM the other day and Northwest has that place sowed up. MEM will be a ghost town if we pull out.

Do they plan to reduce the 9's further in MEM?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Latest word I got (last week) was we were on schedule for 1 Jan 2010 SOC.

Combined AE will be around march.


Now taking bets on where I get displaced to in the next couple weeks.

 

[nwaf16dude]

I have heard SOC will be in the spring sometime - all rumor though.

I too thought CVG and MEM would go away in the future but I had a trip through MEM the other day and Northwest has that place sowed up. MEM will be a ghost town if we pull out.

Do they plan to reduce the 9's further in MEM?

Reductions are anyone's guess at this point. MEM is the smoothest operation in the NWA system. If managed correctly it could be a great way to relieve congestion in ATL. Hope it stays around as a hub. We currently only have 9's and 320's based there. (plus a lot of RJ's, of course)

 

[NuGuy]

I agree the one list thing is a better deal although I have no idea how the NW system worked. Could block holders still bid reserve when they wanted to?

Heyas,

First, remember that the NWA system was designed around the idea that reserve sucked, no matter the workrules, so providing the MAXIMUM number of blockholders was in everyone's best interest. As a result, the number of reserves at NWA was very low compared to other airlines.

Block/reserve was a BID position as part of the permanent position process. In theory you could bid one or the other every month (as the NWA APA process ran every month), but in practice there had to be a position open, and you were bidding for a position four months out.

To fill in the staffing gaps, there were temporary positions awarded the month prior for next months flying. They could be block to reserve, reserve to block, in base or out of base, but to get one, you had to be in a position of excess (meaning they didn't need to fill your spot with someone else). In any case, people who were awarded temporary positions bid at the bottom AFTER all the permanent position holders. This usually went way senior because the company owed you free hotels and positive space to work, even from home.

But to answer the posters question: No, if you were a blockholder, you couldn't just "bid reserve" in the way he's probably thinking.

The system worked very well. Very senior reserve line holders knew that their days off wouldn't get skunked by the random guy bidding down from block. Very junior blockholders KNEW they would have a line every month, easing concerns about commuting a great deal, and if the flying shifted, they could displace directly from blockholder in one position down to another position where they could hold a block....it eliminated the guesswork.

Sure, it eliminated the flexibility of bidding reserve one month, then a block the next for those guys who "just want to sit around a month", but given the demographic of the NWA group, this wasn't a huge priority. A different group would have different ideas.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

Unless there is a lot of movemtent around the combined system I wouldn't count on getting MEM in the near future. The history of the base is like this. When it first opened it was the junior base, however after a few years a lot of folks either moved there or bid it because of the commute. When the downsizing took place several years ago it kicked a lot of folks out except for the senior guys. Hence, it is now more senior than even MSP.

The other hindering factor is that there are not normally positions made available in MEM. Usually it is only 2-3 positions at a time. Not saying that it won't happen, but there are things you can look for to see if a position will come available. I personally know several guys in MEM that really want ATL. In short if they are able to bid ATL with no problem then there will be several positions in MEM available.

If you live in MEM, then the easiest way in is reserve on the bus. VERY junior. Block bus is extremely senior.

This isn't completely accurate, the dc9 isn't that senior. The mist junior delta-N pilot was just in mem as of last month but bid out by choice. A junior pilot can hold any base they want on the dc9. We're short enough in mem that they temp pilots into Memphis monthly. The bus has gotten more senior though over the past couple of months.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It will be an interesting bid. All is conjure until they post it, but there was a copy of the proposed one floating around the last few weeks. Very interesting stuff on there.

 

[Linedriver]

It will be an interesting bid. All is conjure until they post it, but there was a copy of the proposed one floating around the last few weeks. Very interesting stuff on there.

Can you comment on it or is it top secret, hush-hush, and confidential?

 

[Diesel-9]

Yep. I never even applied to NW. Took one look at their bases and said no way. Now I may have to fly out of one when the NW guys start to bail and move to ATL.

To each his own. I seriously doubt many are itching to go to ATL, NYC, CVG...Especially those still raising kids. Seems most of the better public school systems are up north. Most of my career have had the choice of MSP, SEA, ANC, HNL, SEA, LAX, BOS and the others. Saying Delta has had better bases is very arguable. . And not an issue as most people live in locations for many other reasons. And just an early observation after looking at the DAL side, much of your SOPA is decades behind what NWA had developed and passed on into the industry and your contract is nowhere as good as advertised in all this merger debate. Taking all the best of both in the long run will make a very attractive company to work at. Hope we can park the ego's and get it done sooner than later and prosper.

 

[michael707767]

And just an early observation after looking at the DAL side, much of your SOPA is decades behind what NWA had developed and passed on into the industry and your contract is nowhere as good as advertised in all this merger debate.

Well, we don't really have a SOPA. By design. For the most part, what I have observed is that NWA procedures are very directive. You will do this and say this at this time, and you never deviate from it. Right down to who does the overhead on the preflight, who loads the FMS, who starts the engines, etc. You want the books to be the Delta way. The less stuff in the procedures is the less stuff the FAA can gig you for.

Delta's procedures are much less directive. There are procedures for how to preflight the overhead, but we don't care who does it, for example. I think you will find the Delta procedures offer enough guidance, but yet give you the room to be a pilot and make decisions. Delta is not going to nit pick how you do your job.

On the contract, I won't argue. It sucks and only a union twerp would tell you otherwise.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

A twerp! I love it.

Section 23 needs a lot of work. A lot.
So does Section 6, 3 and 1. Aw heck all of it does.

 

[jonjuan]

To each his own. I seriously doubt many are itching to go to ATL, NYC, CVG...Especially those still raising kids. Seems most of the better public school systems are up north.

Are people in this industry still having kids?

 

[Diesel-9]

OOOOOps. Its the kids kids living at home now.

 

[another cfii]

Latest word I got (last week) was we were on schedule for 1 Jan 2010 SOC.

Combined AE will be around march.


Now taking bets on where I get displaced to in the next couple weeks.

I think the upcoming displacement bid (supposedly coming out soon!) will bump more of us junior pukes out of a RD base, and when SOC comes, it could be a while down the road before we'll be able to bid back into our original base. Oh well, I'm actually looking forward to flying in the nwa network again.

 

[michael707767]

I think the upcoming displacement bid (supposedly coming out soon!) will bump more of us junior pukes out of a RD base, and when SOC comes, it could be a while down the road before we'll be able to bid back into our original base.

In anticipation of just this kind of problem, the joint contract should have included lifetime reinstatement rights to your former category.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Most rumors about the AE are close to being accurate. I bet that some of the plan changes this week though.

 

[Jetsetter]

Most rumors about the AE are close to being accurate. I bet that some of the plan changes this week though.

For the better or for the worse?????