Senate Hearing on Regional Pilots

[doh]

Now thats funny....
Look Airlines have been squeezing money from generous pilot scheduling for years.....pay back is hell

The reason Regional airlines have more failures is not necessarily experience. Frankly its money.
Training is a cost and majors are willing to spend more then regionals because contracts regulate training and failures more at that level then a regional where its failures are looked upon not as a programs deficiency but rather an individuals failure and more times then not the individual is shown the door rather then scheduling more training.

The guy I went in the sim with here at Flex is an early retire from the majors. The training we got was twice what I got at the regional. When we finished, he told me that was the hardest program he had ever been through. I think you may be onto something.

 

[jmreii]

The ironony is that people with less experience are less likely to have had a blemish on their training record.

Take a pilot with 10,000 hours and worked at 5 airlines compared to a pilot with 300 hours and no airline experience. Which pilot is more likely to have had a blemish on their training record?

Finally a person with some sense

 

[rumorhasit]

Well Sh!t I failed my Inst. check ride, I guess I need to throw my 1000 hours out the window and apply to mcdonalds or maybe work for the FAA!!!

 

[merlindrvr88]

You are right!!

People are stupid. You get what you pay for.....period. It's cliche but it's true. $100K a year gets you a comfortable, experienced, well rested, happy pilot. $18K gets you an inexperienced, tired, commuting across the country b/c they can't afford to live in base, never seen IFR, never seen ice pilot.


Time to get rid of the time builders and 40 year old mid-life crisis pilots that made all their money being accountants and lawyers. This is a profession and we should be paid that way. What if pilots changed their minds and became lawyers and said they would work for 5 bucks an hour because they just love litigation, or they did taxes for everybody for free, because accountimg is awesome. What would happen to them?? We could bring down an entire industry just like they did. Bottom line, we need dedicated, trained pilots, that don't work for peanuts. Get rid of ALPO and let every company have their own union.

 

[difete]

It is funny how that old big eared troll senator did not have a clue about anything, yet he speaks like such a big thing. He is concerned because of trainee controllers and pilots. Excuse me Mr. Troll senator, where you born a senator, or did you had also a first day as a senator?

 

[livin'thesim]

What if pilots changed their minds and became lawyers and said they would work for 5 bucks an hour because they just love litigation

Where you been?

Flightinfo is full of pilots litigating every issue you can think of, loudly, and for free. Pro bono? I'm getting the lingo down already!

 

[jmreii]

Once again pilots will be taking in the rear, and this time they will leave out the vaseline!

 

[Lampshade]

Looks like the House Aviation sub committee Chairman Costello will propose legislation requiring an ATP for first officers. Let's see if it comes to fruition.

 

[Browntothebone]

Looks like the House Aviation sub committee Chairman Costello will propose legislation requiring an ATP for first officers. Let's see if it comes to fruition.

Will this require the firing off ALL regional F/Os who don't have an ATP?

 

[Tarzan]

Looks like the House Aviation sub committee Chairman Costello will propose legislation requiring an ATP for first officers. Let's see if it comes to fruition.

I like it. It may not bode well for us in the long run though.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

People are stupid. You get what you pay for.....period. It's cliche but it's true. $100K a year gets you a comfortable, experienced, well rested, happy pilot. $18K gets you an inexperienced, tired, commuting across the country b/c they can't afford to live in base, never seen IFR, never seen ice pilot.


Time to get rid of the time builders and 40 year old mid-life crisis pilots that made all their money being accountants and lawyers. This is a profession and we should be paid that way. What if pilots changed their minds and became lawyers and said they would work for 5 bucks an hour because they just love litigation, or they did taxes for everybody for free, because accountimg is awesome. What would happen to them?? We could bring down an entire industry just like they did. Bottom line, we need dedicated, trained pilots, that don't work for peanuts. Get rid of ALPO and let every company have their own union.

I don't think throwing money at the problem is necessarily the answer. I have seen a lot of poor decision making on the line. People don't use the fatigue call enough when needed or at all. I hear many pilots talk about their crappy schedules and flying tired. Why don't they call in fatigue? because they will lose money is one of the biggest motivators I believe. Someone here will say if you are only making 18K, you can't afford to call in fatigue, well if this Colgan crash doesn't wake you up then I don't know what will. Dying is permanent.

IMHO I think its sad we have to get Bureaucrats involved to make the decisions for us. I really believe we do get what we pay for. But a lot the new generation of pilots wastes all of their money on stupid $hit and as a result they make poor decisions like buying a new Iphone instead of health insurance. 18K or 100k they will piss it all away. I guess Mommy Government will fix everything since they are the really smart people who knows whats best for us. If you are smart you can live off of the 18K per year. and commute safely. If you can't than maybe you should do something else and leave this profession for the professionals.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Looks like the House Aviation sub committee Chairman Costello will propose legislation requiring an ATP for first officers. Let's see if it comes to fruition.

Sounds great....wonder why ALPA never pushed for it? Rez? PCL128?

 

[JoeMerchant]

I hear many pilots talk about their crappy schedules and flying tired. Why don't they call in fatigue? because they will lose money is one of the biggest motivators I believe. Someone here will say if you are only making 18K, you can't afford to call in fatigue, well if this Colgan crash doesn't wake you up then I don't know what will. Dying is permanent.

How long had the Colgan crew been on duty?

 

[XJohXJ]

I don't think throwing money at the problem is necessarily the answer. I have seen a lot of poor decision making on the line. People don't use the fatigue call enough when needed or at all. I hear many pilots talk about their crappy schedules and flying tired. Why don't they call in fatigue? because they will lose money is one of the biggest motivators I believe. Someone here will say if you are only making 18K, you can't afford to call in fatigue, well if this Colgan crash doesn't wake you up then I don't know what will. Dying is permanent.

IMHO I think its sad we have to get Bureaucrats involved to make the decisions for us. I really believe we do get what we pay for. But a lot the new generation of pilots wastes all of their money on stupid $hit and as a result they make poor decisions like buying a new Iphone instead of health insurance. 18K or 100k they will piss it all away. I guess Mommy Government will fix everything since they are the really smart people who knows whats best for us. If you are smart you can live off of the 18K per year. and commute safely. If you can't than maybe you should do something else and leave this profession for the professionals.

Well, for one thing, many regional airlines, including my own, punish and harass pilots who call in fatigued. You are a being very unrealistic if you don't think that the very real threat of very real punishment is not going to nudge the majority of pilots towards "don't call fatigued" when making the decision.

Another point worth mentioning: There is solid evidence that fatigued people act in an equivalent manner to drunk people. Drunk (fatigued) people, by definition, do not have the physical capability (while fatigued) to employ sound judgement. Unfortunately, the current law requires the pilot to be the only one using judgement as to whether or not he or she is fatigued (rather than using established science to create reasonably non-fatiguing schedules). So, just when a pilot is not capable of judging his or her level of fatigue, throw in the knowledge of almost guaranteed company punishment/harrasement, and then expect the pilot to pull it together to make the fatige call, what can you expect?

The current system is crazy, non-functional, and unrealistic. Ever hear a drunk say "I'm okay to drive". Well, it's the same when a fatigued pilot says "I'm okay to fly". When they need the judgement, by definition, they don't have it.

Fix the system and stop blaming the pilots.

 

[turbinesurgeon]

How long had the Colgan crew been on duty?

I don't know about the duty time but the FO commuted in and slept in the crew room for several hours.

My point is the decision making, I have seen Mesa schedules that someone posted here that made me fatigue just looking at it. The people who fly those schedules fatigued are making poor decisions and now we need the government to get involved to make the decision that should have been made by professionals. With enough rules and regulations there won't be a need for professionals we just have to idiot proof everything.