What's really up at Flexjet?

[QOL_is_great:)]

I think the mistakes you have made are subtle.... You slip by using pilot "lingo" here and there in your posts. For example using TEB instead of Teterboro. Its sort of like someone from NYC trying to hide that fact by faking a Mississippi accent. My wife was an Air Force flight nurse on C-130s and C-141 ... she wouldn't use TEB in a post.

Of course, if you happen to be a private pilot or have some other aviation background ... that would explain why you could sound like a pilot trying to cover up that fact.

On the other hand ... you write and spell too well to actually be a pilot. :laugh:

Come on Gunfyter, if you were a Cobra driver at one time (Corp or Army) and married while serving then you know that Household Six (Army reference) picks up on things. Hell, when I text my wife and tell her where I am I don't use complete spelling. I use three letter IDs like TEB or OWB or DAL. She knows to much military and aviation slang by now and makes life easy when writing.

Even if it isn't a woman, I believe it is, then who cares!! Let's find out what is really going on within Flex. If I say 'HEY' to one on the road then I'd like to know why I don't receive a friendly 'how's it going' back. These brothers need to find a hope during their day.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I'm not so sure about recalls in the fall. They said that if we get busy again, they are going to increase the number of days we work before they recall. So I guess that will be the first sign of things improving.

 

[unclepetey]

I'm not so sure about recalls in the fall. They said that if we get busy again, they are going to increase the number of days we work before they recall. So I guess that will be the first sign of things improving.

I agree, they said right after the furloughs that they might increase the days back to 16 in the fall for the busy season.

I say leave it at 14 and bring some people back, but that won't happen. At some point there has to be some attrition I hope. Even in bad times there are people moving on to something else.

 

[FastJP4]

I'm not so sure about recalls in the fall. They said that if we get busy again, they are going to increase the number of days we work before they recall. So I guess that will be the first sign of things improving.

As bad as things are, the furloughed Flex guys have a better chance getting a job "out there" vs. getting back with Flex. Current live numbers are dismal to put it mildly. If/when they start to pick up - they will increase back to 16 per period. After that, they will pay OT in addition to the 16 if flying increases further - and rest assured those picking up OT could care less about those on the street.

Nope, if your one of the Flex 85 - best be looking elsewhere. The two year recall (can you say lame) will come and go before call backs. You guys should look at FG's history - it's there for the reading.

The once decent Flex job will continue to spiral down the $hitter as long as FG is there and the upper 1/2 of the list stays intact.

 

[netjetwife]

Only a 2 yr recall?! Yes, I can say lame. For comparison, when my husband was furloughed from AA (brief stint ended by 9-11) the pilots got a 7 yr recall. Closer to home, NJA pilots have unlimited recall rights. 2 yrs isn't just lame, it's downright lousy!

I'm afraid that Fast is right. 2 yrs probably isn't enough time for the recovery. The long term leave of absence (LTLOA) being offered at NJA is 3 yrs. It was designed with an eye toward the junior pilots most at risk of being furloughed. Considering that the LTLOA will pay 1K a month plus benefits, I don't think NJA would have agreed to 3 yrs if it was possible to recover in 2. I can never understand why some managers won't do the right thing (long recall) even when there's little or no cost...

My sympathy to the Flex 85 and their families.
Netjetwife

 

[GSXR600]

Rumor has it that the training department is tightening standards pretty hard too, which led to let go a couple guys as well that couldn't pass pc's. Is this true?
or is this just a rumor resulting from a lot of standby?

 

[FalconPilot69]

How can the training center be "tightening" standards? Yes, there were some failed rides that resulted in TRB's. But ask yourself this question, do you want piss poor pilots gone that have possibly had multiple problems or do you want a Colgan accident? (RIP) Every time I go through for my ride, I am held to the same standards that I was held to when I was hired. Those guys have some of the hardest jobs in the company. They have to train and do checkrides on guys who are not only fellow pilots, but in a lot of cases good friends. I don't know about you, but I would not want to have to bust a friend and cost them their job. Also, if you look at your requirements for an ATP ride or even break open the regs and read the 135.293 and 297 requirements, you will know exactly what they can and cannot do to you.

As far as Flexwife, welcome aboard. Yes, standby for some has been heavy and for some insignficant. I check the ops report daily and the only time I have heard of charter is when we had 8 to 10 aircraft downed within a couple of hours of each other. People here are being very quiet waiting for the next shoe to drop. As far as the CAB goes, next question. With the exception of one person on the CAB, who by the way is not AH or BB, it is a joke. Those guys are in search of nothing but power and hopefully, they will never gain any. Thankfully I think we have some good ACP's and the CP wants to make things better, but his hands may be tied. I have not heard of any OT, but if there is any, it is most likely on the 300. I too hope to see our 85 back soon. Business will have to pick up dramatically for that to happen though. As one said earlier it will most likely not happen until later 2010.

I don't know if this helps answer your questions and maybe other flex guys/gals will not worry about your sexual orientation but answer the questions.

Rumor has it that the training department is tightening standards pretty hard too, which led to let go a couple guys as well that couldn't pass pc's. Is this true?
or is this just a rumor resulting from a lot of standby?

 

[GSXR600]

Dude relax!!! No need to get upset, that’s why I was asking, this is after all FI, but I guess I hurt your feelings.
I totally agreed with you about the instructor’s job and I wouldn’t want to be on their shoes when a friend goes thru training and they have to make hard decisions. By NO means was I trying to criticize our brothers for having trouble with a training event. Hell I’d had issues before. No need to flame!!

 

[netjetwife]

flex*wife, if it matters, i hope i one day have a wife who gives 10% the sh!t you do.. good on ya.. kudos to you too NJW.

Bmxandjets, thanks for the compliment... Your positive, inclusive attitude bodes well for your future marriage. Like any good partnership, support for one another is critical so that means paying attention to the issues. You've already got that figured out so your future bride will be a lucky lady.
Best Wishes!
NJW

 

[Propilot77]

Only a 2 yr recall?! Yes, I can say lame. For comparison, when my husband was furloughed from AA (brief stint ended by 9-11) the pilots got a 7 yr recall. Closer to home, NJA pilots have unlimited recall rights. 2 yrs isn't just lame, it's downright lousy!

I'm afraid that Fast is right. 2 yrs probably isn't enough time for the recovery. The long term leave of absence (LTLOA) being offered at NJA is 3 yrs. It was designed with an eye toward the junior pilots most at risk of being furloughed. Considering that the LTLOA will pay 1K a month plus benefits, I don't think NJA would have agreed to 3 yrs if it was possible to recover in 2. I can never understand why some managers won't do the right thing (long recall) even when there's little or no cost...

My sympathy to the Flex 85 and their families.
Netjetwife

Thats because it isn't and they do not have any plans on calling them back because they don't care! Even Citation shares didn't put a time limit on recalls.

 

[flex*wife]

How can the training center be "tightening" standards? Yes, there were some failed rides that resulted in TRB's. But ask yourself this question, do you want piss poor pilots gone that have possibly had multiple problems or do you want a Colgan accident? (RIP) Every time I go through for my ride, I am held to the same standards that I was held to when I was hired. Those guys have some of the hardest jobs in the company. They have to train and do checkrides on guys who are not only fellow pilots, but in a lot of cases good friends. I don't know about you, but I would not want to have to bust a friend and cost them their job. Also, if you look at your requirements for an ATP ride or even break open the regs and read the 135.293 and 297 requirements, you will know exactly what they can and cannot do to you.

As far as Flexwife, welcome aboard. Yes, standby for some has been heavy and for some insignficant. I check the ops report daily and the only time I have heard of charter is when we had 8 to 10 aircraft downed within a couple of hours of each other. People here are being very quiet waiting for the next shoe to drop. As far as the CAB goes, next question. With the exception of one person on the CAB, who by the way is not AH or BB, it is a joke. Those guys are in search of nothing but power and hopefully, they will never gain any. Thankfully I think we have some good ACP's and the CP wants to make things better, but his hands may be tied. I have not heard of any OT, but if there is any, it is most likely on the 300. I too hope to see our 85 back soon. Business will have to pick up dramatically for that to happen though. As one said earlier it will most likely not happen until later 2010.

I don't know if this helps answer your questions and maybe other flex guys/gals will not worry about your sexual orientation but answer the questions.

FalconPilot69,

Thanks for yout thoughtful response. While I agree wholeheartedly with most of your ascertations I have a few questions.

A year or two ago posted on this board (but I can't find it) there was a lot of talk about a few different 60 or 604 guys (I think) who failed their checkrides because the instructor put them in double engine failure on a takeoff from Aspen -- one of them being a former standards capt and the other a pain in the rear... Do you remember any of this? My husband doesn't remember or else I'd provide you with the exact fleet and intials. I think that's the incident a lot of fear and speculation about checkrides come from. Has Flex addressed that issue or done anything to dispel those rumors?

My husband thinks instructors are fair and are more likely to throw their "punches" during the training sims before the checkride. I think he is more concerned with the sim time and prep having been cutback in the recent days than anything with the actual PC itself.

As far as management is concerned, we'll have to agree to disagree. My husband says it's pretty well known there are a couple of good ACPs or Fodums and a couple of ones you can't trust to save your life. I personally have had a few issues wherein we had to deal with a family crisis or paychecks or health insurance and I have not been given the impression that anyone cares that much about the pilots or their families, but maybe I've just been unlucky enough to have had that experience and it's roses and daisies for everyone else. It seems its other line pilots take up for the causes or issues of other line pilots than anything else.

As far as the CAB is concerned my husband has experience with AH during the whole base thing and was not impressed that he was anything other than self serving. There have been enough other things written about BB that I don't think I need to go there, but I hear management hates him as much as line pilots so that's a wash. The only one I have heard is any good (I can PM you the name) quit the CAB so I am not sure who you are referring to. I think it was due to beating one's head agianst a brick wall became too futile for him to continue... I'd be curious to hear your opinion on who else is good... That said is there even still a CAB anyway?

Correct me if I'm wrong -- a lot of this is based on just the rumor mill. If there are ACPs and CPs who really want to make this a better place for you guys then why is everyone so darn secretive about how they plan to accomplish that? Pilots are usually a smart group of people, I think you could get the big picture if someone ever bothered to show it to you.

 

[flex*wife]

By the way I just wanted to say I really appreciate the responses as of late. The debate of "what's really going on at Flex" is the information I am looking for. The problems can't be solved if the facts (and rumors) aren't even addressed. I am relieved to see there are still enough Flex pilots who care to discuss the issues and look for resolutions. Might not do anything (beating your head against a brick wall) but it is at least setting my heart to rest a little bit that people DO care about the issues... Thanks!

 

[FalconPilot69]

I will try and answer your questions in bold in you quote below. Hopefully it helps.

FalconPilot69,

Thanks for yout thoughtful response. While I agree wholeheartedly with most of your ascertations I have a few questions.

A year or two ago posted on this board (but I can't find it) there was a lot of talk about a few different 60 or 604 guys (I think) who failed their checkrides because the instructor put them in double engine failure on a takeoff from Aspen -- one of them being a former standards capt and the other a pain in the rear... Do you remember any of this? My husband doesn't remember or else I'd provide you with the exact fleet and intials. I think that's the incident a lot of fear and speculation about checkrides come from. Has Flex addressed that issue or done anything to dispel those rumors? It was one instructor and he is no longer.

My husband thinks instructors are fair and are more likely to throw their "punches" during the training sims before the checkride. I think he is more concerned with the sim time and prep having been cutback in the recent days than anything with the actual PC itself. At least we get the warm up. Technically, per the FAA, only the ride is required.

As far as management is concerned, we'll have to agree to disagree. My husband says it's pretty well known there are a couple of good ACPs or Fodums and a couple of ones you can't trust to save your life. I personally have had a few issues wherein we had to deal with a family crisis or paychecks or health insurance and I have not been given the impression that anyone cares that much about the pilots or their families, but maybe I've just been unlucky enough to have had that experience and it's roses and daisies for everyone else. It seems its other line pilots take up for the causes or issues of other line pilots than anything else. We actually agree. We all know who you can and cannot trust, thankfully, we have a good one representing us.

As far as the CAB is concerned my husband has experience with AH during the whole base thing and was not impressed that he was anything other than self serving. There have been enough other things written about BB that I don't think I need to go there, but I hear management hates him as much as line pilots so that's a wash. The only one I have heard is any good (I can PM you the name) quit the CAB so I am not sure who you are referring to. I think it was due to beating one's head agianst a brick wall became too futile for him to continue... I'd be curious to hear your opinion on who else is good... That said is there even still a CAB anyway? Supposedly yes. But it is headed by the self serving. I won't say who the member is that I am speaking of since he is still on the CAB. I can say though that his only aspriation is to make it better for us and he has no want nor desire to be an ACP or CP. He too has had his fill though.

Correct me if I'm wrong -- a lot of this is based on just the rumor mill. If there are ACPs and CPs who really want to make this a better place for you guys then why is everyone so darn secretive about how they plan to accomplish that? Pilots are usually a smart group of people, I think you could get the big picture if someone ever bothered to show it to you. Honestly, I don't think anyone knows how to make it better right now. I know people will jump on this, but with the economy, people are just trying to hang on. I hope this helps.

 

[Flyingdog1]

year or two ago posted on this board (but I can't find it) there was a lot of talk about a few different 60 or 604 guys (I think) who failed their checkrides because the instructor put them in double engine failure on a takeoff from Aspen -- one of them being a former standards capt and the other a pain in the rear... Do you remember any of this? My husband doesn't remember or else I'd provide you with the exact fleet and intials. I think that's the incident a lot of fear and speculation about checkrides come from. Has Flex addressed that issue or done anything to dispel those rumors? It was one instructor and he is no longer.

He was a 45 guy. And he's no longer in the training center.

 

[Flyingdog1]

Rumor has it that the training department is tightening standards pretty hard too, which led to let go a couple guys as well that couldn't pass pc's. Is this true?
or is this just a rumor resulting from a lot of standby?

First of all I love your avitar!! Second, standards never ( except per FAA changes ) change in the training department. All instructors want everyone to pass, and we do our best to help every applicant to be up to standards, it's a lot easier and a lot less paperwork and time. We are here for recurrent training to help applicants to refresh on stuff they rarely see on the road. When someone doesn't pass or is not recommended it is a direct reflection on us to see why we can not train a pilot. ( It's our fault first ) The training department is on the side of the pilot, because we are the same as all line pilots.

 

[GSXR600]

Thanks Flyingdog1!

 

[DUATS]

I check the ops report daily and the only time I have heard of charter is when we had 8 to 10 aircraft downed within a couple of hours of each other.

Did they change the phone number for the daily briefing?

 

[FalconPilot69]

Yea. It is on the belly.

Did they change the phone number for the daily briefing?

 

[EatSleepFly]

Did they change the phone number for the daily briefing?

Yeah, can't have all of us furloughed guys calling in to see how things are going. (Or how much they're chartering with 85 of us on the street)

They blocked our bluebelly access while some of us were still on the road, wiped our blackberries without warning a week before they were even due back, and took over a month to pay the half of the per diem that they left out of our last check.

Coming up next it'll be, "what agreement?"

I really liked it there, too.

 

[unclepetey]

When I got the call about my furlough I was told "bad news you're getting furloughed, good news is that we won't furlough anymore this year" What a joke.

I'm not holding my breath on any recall, especially in their two year time frame. They just don't care.