Cost Index Program at ASA

[CFIT]

SkyWest Airlines is thinking of adopting the CI Program already in use at ASA. I talked with an ASA crew last in OKC and they said it was a total joke and doesn't work, they were a 200 crew.

I'm curious, is that the general feeling for the Cost Index performance and is it the same when used on the 700 as well?

TIA

 

[Max Q]

All pilots are experts at everything.

I use my iPhone in lieu of CI.

-Brett

 

[Abernathy]

Most captains I fly with use it as if we're on time. Not supposed to use it when running behind schedule, either, which is often the case.

I'll set it up as a reference, but if we're running behind, the CI goes out the door (usually the case). Most of our problems as far as delays lately have been the lazy ramp in Atlanta. Is lazy the right word? Lazy as f**k. That feels better.

WHY can't we fire these people? Is there any reason it takes 10 minutes for 5 rampers to "huddle" before they crawl over to the airplane at ultra-snail speed to marshall us in with wands that are not lit up?

I'm on the 200 btw.

 

[1080P]

Works great, would save millions if everyone used it. As mentioned above why would anyone slow down if your running late.

 

[SLUF4]

I use it unless we're late like everyone else says-you gotta use your head. Seems to work, and I've noticed the numbers have gone up since we started. Used to be CI of 11 or 15 and now it's usually in the 20's. Is that because fuel prices have fallen or what?

 

[cheerios2]

yes. higher numbers = faster and lower fuel vs other costs.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

I use it all of the time unless I am running behind.

A-14 comes before CI. Our contract is based on performance, and thus if an A-14 is in jeopardy, I run as fast as possible. Delta pays us based on ontime performance, not how much fuel we save them.

If you can get a D-0, then running per the CI should equate into an ontime arrival either way.

The OKC crew you spoke to was mistaken in my opinion.

 

[Medeco]

I agree the OKC crew has not likely seen the spreadsheet that shows savings or not.

Medeco

 

[Stifler's Mom]

If you want to see it work in reverse, run as fast as possible into ATL on a clear day (no hold fuel or extra) and recieve holding instructions while they turn the airport around.

 

[777forever]

The OKC crew you talked to are idiots.

 

[sweptback]

It works well, saves the company money, and has the potential to make me more money with overblock (as long as we still make A-14).

I see no reason to not use it. It takes an extra minute to fill out the ACARS screen and then the rest is automated.

 

[CFIT]

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[LazyLightnin']

It works well, saves the company money, and has the potential to make me more money with overblock (as long as we still make A-14).

I see no reason to not use it. It takes an extra minute to fill out the ACARS screen and then the rest is automated.

When did the company start paying for gas?

 

[wilde737]

What is this CI program? We don't have it on the Skywest side of the house.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

When did the company start paying for gas?

You're right. We should burn as much as possible since we don't pay for it! Delta won't notice...

 

[LazyLightnin']

You're right. We should burn as much as possible since we don't pay for it! Delta won't notice...

I always just tell the fueler to "fill'er up!". We're usually weight restricted to around 15 peeps, but hey, that just means more free peanuts for me!

And ever since I've been bringing home thousands of insanely large bottles of spring water, the woman just refuses to bathe in, quote, "that nasty tap water".

Thanks for not noticing, Delta!

How's that for sarcasm?

 

[sweptback]

Cost index is computing the most efficient way to fly the airplane, not necessarily the most fuel-efficient.

 

[JettBoii]

The ramp is what it is. You get what you pay for. D blows and always will. Sometimes their good and sometimes they bad. I absolutely love it when they saunter out from "ramper hq" to marshal us in at a less than anaerobic pace. However when we park on the "big boy ramp" we never wait. Ground power is usually hooked up lickety split. Ground air isn't because their hose is too short. Some rampers are great; what happened to the guy that wore the mirror sunglasses that actually knew how to marshall and even did it with a little style? Minimum wage equals minimum effort.

 

[79%N1]

Ok. Good point. Why the difference between A/B and C/D/E??? It's the same employee group right??? They are all Delta rampers! But yet they cant work the same on all concourses! It is rediculous!

 

[buscap]

Cost index is computing the most efficient way to fly the airplane, not necessarily the most fuel-efficient.

Best definition I ever heard.

Watch the CI change over the next year as oil shoots back up!!

 

[JettBoii]

CI. Well it does save gas when you pull the power back with a tail wind but according to the FMS the the difference between .68 and .76 is minimal when it comes to arrival times especially in Atlanta. I mean maybe a minute or two?

I have no idea why the rampers suck so bad on D. It is ridiculous. Mr. Holt needs to jump seat sometime to see what does on so maybe he can directly relay it to the Mighty D.

When does the new lounge open?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Those CI work well with auto throttles.
They will assign an overall profile to each number. Here at DAL we generally ditch them in the descent unless we are going somewhere with little to no traffic.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

At comair we fly around at .65 freaking everywhere. .70 ish into a headwind. Saves mommy D a ton of money in fuel though. Usually see burns right around 1100 a side. Had 900 a side at .63 earlier today in a light plane up at 340. Versus balls to the walls of about 1300-1500 a side looks like we saved over 1000 pounds in the hour of cruise we had.

 

[jetpig32]

Cost index is just the ratio of time induced costs over fuel induced costs. The company will put their desired CI on the release. Once you takeoff, you have 3 scenarios.
1) Your box has the release CI and your on time in the box show the desired on time. Keep the CI.
2) Your box show you behind schedule with the release CI in. Bump up CI to achieve ontime or closer to ontime, respecting min fuel reqs.
3) Your box shows you ahead of schedule with the release CI in. You should not lower CI to lengthen the flight time, for this would cost more to operate flight.

Fly OPT ALT and ECON speeds.

Keep in mind, this assumes a many things.
A) Company has accurately calculated time related costs and keeps a good handle on desired CI's based on stage length, fuel costs.
B) You are not in contract negotiations
C) You have a gate if you arrive 20 early. If you don't, you just negated all the savings of scenario 3 above. Hope this helps.

 

[SBD]

At comair we fly around at .65 freaking everywhere. .70 ish into a headwind. Saves mommy D a ton of money in fuel though. Usually see burns right around 1100 a side. Had 900 a side at .63 earlier today in a light plane up at 340. Versus balls to the walls of about 1300-1500 a side looks like we saved over 1000 pounds in the hour of cruise we had.

Does Comair pay for the gas, or does Daddy DL? I've flown with Cap's who swear they were paying for it out of their profit checks.

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Does Comair pay for the gas, or does Daddy DL? I've flown with Cap's who swear they were paying for it out of their profit checks.

in this case does it really matter? Thats like asking if the gas in your sons car came from your wallet or the the allowance you gave him. Still coming from your wallet.

But... Delta pays for our gas as well as all of the contracted carriers. But... I hear that is changing soon.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fuel is one of the many things that is a direct pass through costs.
The profit sharing at a regional is a joke. With FFD all you need to do is make sure the flight operates, and your airline gets their 7-12% margin from Momma Delta. How you fly it does not come in to play per say. Now when it comes to year five in your contract it will help with your overall costs, but that is about it.

 

[crj567]

in this case does it really matter? Thats like asking if the gas in your sons car came from your wallet or the the allowance you gave him. Still coming from your wallet.

But... Delta pays for our gas as well as all of the contracted carriers. But... I hear that is changing soon.

Kinda like asking if you are a nerd because you went to Riddle (and you actually are proud enough of that to call yourself "RiddleEagle 18") Or if were transfromed into a robo-nerd as a consequence of attending.

-Things that make you say "hmmm."

 

[USCtrojan]

CI. Well it does save gas when you pull the power back with a tail wind but according to the FMS the the difference between .68 and .76 is minimal when it comes to arrival times especially in Atlanta. I mean maybe a minute or two?

I have no idea why the rampers suck so bad on D. It is ridiculous. Mr. Holt needs to jump seat sometime to see what does on so maybe he can directly relay it to the Mighty D.

When does the new lounge open?

New Lounge opens April 15th according to Lisa W.

Trojan

 

[Seahawker01]

At comair we fly around at .65 freaking everywhere. .70 ish into a headwind. Saves mommy D a ton of money in fuel though. Usually see burns right around 1100 a side. Had 900 a side at .63 earlier today in a light plane up at 340. Versus balls to the walls of about 1300-1500 a side looks like we saved over 1000 pounds in the hour of cruise we had.

So forgive me, it has been a while since I flew the the CRJ and that was on the 200. But I seem to rememeber that segment burns went up if you slowed under .70. i thought .72 was a good target for econ speed. what do you guys use now? And doesn't the CRJ almost fall out of the sky at .63 @FL340?