AirTran NPA Board Approves ALPA Merger Agreement

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I will say it again, we will blame the union when times are bad and disregard the union when times are good. No union makes a decision on routes, fleets, fuel hedges, or bankruptcies. Piss poor management does and your anger is aimed at the wrong culprit.

It is a typical consumer attitude pilots have with thier union

 

[scarlet]

Thanks had almost 7 years with ALPA=I know what they tell you! They tell you how they are soing to strong arm management. Just as they have done with all the airlines I listed earlier. You have to look at the past to educate yourself for the future. ALPA's past is not impressive to me or the folks I talk to.

No to ALPA !!

 

[AA717driver]

Eagle757--I thought you were at Eagle. But I was pointing out how the small carriers get the short end of the stick when it comes to ALPA National.

Hey, enjoy the ride. Save a few bucks on representation. As for not liking ALPA, the integration was just the icing on the cake. I put in 13 years of ALPA membership before that including one at ARW after the MVA merger. But that's ancient history. I'm sure things have changed.

But I'd watch my back if they assign Roland Wilder to AirTran. Be careful what you wish for. In other words, even if the AT MEC is paying his fee, he still works for and takes orders from ALPA National.

Rez: What does it matter to me? Because I'm not a union political hack and I actually care what happens to my friend's careers.

TC

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

get over it, ALPA is getting voted in.

 

[easydoesit]

GO ALPA! Quit pissin and moaning. It's over for the flickin NPA

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez: What does it matter to me? Because I'm not a union political hack and I actually care what happens to my friend's careers.

TC

So what are you doing about it besides posting on FI?

And if this is all you are doing, why not come up with solid arguments instead of slick insults?

ALPA is not perfect... it has its faults just like any organization comprised of humans...

So, if you are genuine about ALPA being a poor choice for Airtran...

Then show us that you understand the NPA is not working and some alternative is attractive. Since no other in house or IBT is interested and ALPA is the only choice...

Tell us, why the NPA, is still better than ALPA.

Finally, tell us, since ALPA has a good chance, what you like and dislike about ALPA..... in other words, what can the FL pilots learn from your bad experiences with ALPA....

If you really care about your friends careers and ALPA is most likely going to happen, then help your friends not make the same mistakes.

 

[gearup5]

Good ALPA can take our information right across the street to the big D ! =Smart !

Let see you they are going to work for

15000 pilots or 1700... Heck ASA has had ALPA for years and now the DL ALPA is voting to put DL pilots in DCI carriers if they are furloughed. ASA/Comair/DCI ALPA Pilots are just excited about that.

GREAT RESOURCES ALPA!! I had your great resources as many pilots here at Airtran have, and you showed us nothing !

No THANKS, lets keep the family to family like AA,SWA.

So by that logic we should get rid of FLICA,Signature,CrewTRAC(sabre),Gate gourmet,XM,COKE products.
Keep it in the family? Where have you been for the last four years. Npa couldn't fight its way out of a wet paper bag. At a minimum you at least get a dues reduction.

 

[funnyman12]

I think if the ALPA haters had first hand witness to the NPA's ineffectiveness they may have a better understanding. I've been at Airtran for 2 years and my quality of life has significantly decreased under the same contract. I don't think that Airtran pilots think ALPA is going to save us, it is just that we need resources!! Currently we don't have an active lawyer. She is out on medical. A union without a lawyer!!?? Unions were put in place to protect the worker. Yeah contracts are great but in the end of the day, I wanna know that I am personally protected. If I were involved in an incident I dont feel very secure that the NPA could protect me. That could ruin my entire career. ALPA has better resources to protect ME. You are right tho, in the end of the day ALPA is a money hungry entity and if push came to shove may screw us. But at least I have more protection from management and if I ever am involved in an incident.

 

[Fubijaakr]

All you haters need to ask a Colgan pilot if he thinks ALPA is worth the money today. Wait, they haven't paid any dues yet, but ALPA responded to their accident full force.

You guys don't get it, do you?

 

[AA717driver]

Finally, tell us, since ALPA has a good chance, what you like and dislike about ALPA..... in other words, what can the FL pilots learn from your bad experiences with ALPA....

If you really care about your friends careers and ALPA is most likely going to happen, then help your friends not make the same mistakes.

Rez--My statement about ALPA legal is a biggie. Just remember that when AT is in play and ALPA sends its vaunted legal team they work for ALPA National and are not under the command of the MEC.

NPA didn't get a contract for their members. What will ALPA do within the constraints of the RLA to motivate AT management? What force will they bring to bear to wring a new CBA out of AirTran?

Who will represent the AT pilots at the local level? I'm guessing it will be the same people who worked for NPA.

When push comes to shove at Bal Harbor, the big boys get their way. Some are more equal than others.

As long as they know their place, they won't be disappointed.

I'm not going to bother with the inside baseball stuff. They'll learn on their own.

TC

 

[dh82dvr]

Lets keep the NPA. That way we can keep signing LOAs and get nothing in return, keep paying higher dues so SK and KG can keep us going around in circles and make sure our legal rep can have extra leave and get a good stack of grievances for mgmt to use as a door stop. Seems worth the money to me.........NOT. :beer:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As long as they know their place, they won't be disappointed.


TC

So it is possible that you didn't understand ALPA and know your place... that is why your expectations weren't met and you are disapointed?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Here is a letter from a former ALPA Exec. Vice President and DHL pilot to the Air Tran pilots...


A friend of mine sent me a copy of this letter that was sent to the AirTran leadership before the vote. Someone there passed it on...interesting insight...the name and email addresses were blocked for obvious reasons.

In recent years it is difficult to remain optimistic when it comes to our profession. Retirement plans have been gutted and the cost for insurance benefits have been steadily transferred from our companies to us. W2’s have seen losses of 30-40-50% and even more. Furloughs have been constant and widespread. In the face of this attack on our profession one would think that ALPA would be the one union that aggressively defends our profession. But for that to happen all ALPA pilots, regardless of airline, aircraft, or payload would have to take a stand…together. That that has not happened, unfortunately, also defines ALPA’s single biggest challenge. For years ALPA has engaged in the politics and the practices of elitism, those flying for major carriers, particularly the large passenger carriers have become convinced that they are in some way better, therefore more deserving, than the pilots flying for carriers like Comair, Midwest Express, Air Wisconsin, or my carrier DHL. And until ALPA addresses this problem head-on ALPA will continue to spiral downward. Oh, it may survive for a few more years in some form but it will most likely be in some scaled down version that attempts to continue to serve the largest carriers interests, which will ultimately result in ALPA’s total failure. And I say total failure because ALPA’s arrogance will cause the pilots flying for the smaller carriers or those who find themselves on the outside looking in, to fight back hence leading go a labor war that will be to managements total glee. And to this point in time ALPA’s leadership has not demonstrated the political courage much less willingness, to take up this enormous challenge and tackle it head on. If anything the merger of Delta and Northwest will further exacerbate this issue, making the small carriers even less relevant within ALPA, which will accelerate ALPA’s demise.

Gentlemen I think I understand your pain, several years of frustrating negotiations with a management that has no real motivation to negotiate. The rank and file get restless and because you are on the point of the spear, as the elected leadership, they turn to you for answers and solutions. In that environment it becomes easy for the pilots to begin to see you as the problem rather than seeing management as the problem. And management is quite skilled when it comes to misinformation and ultimately stalling. But for what it is worth that describes negotiations and management relations on nearly every airline property, particularly the smaller carriers; and unless you have 4,000 or 5,000 pilots or more, we are small carriers.

The environment in which we live has been the result of a combination of things, and some of the events were set in motion over 30 years ago (i.e. deregulation). The bottom line is that labor has lost its clout on The Hill, in the boardrooms, in the crew lounges and even in the living rooms. Politically ALPA, like so many unions hitched their wagon to the Democratic party, which at one time was a wise and good choice, but no longer can that be said. Without belaboring you with the many lessons that I have learned let me just say this: This is your company, your pilot group and your decision, however I feel a certain sense of obligation to warn you that ALPA will prove to be the worst choice that you will ever make. I say this having served 8 years as an MEC Chairman and 5 plus years as an ALPA Executive Vice President and 20 years (and still counting) as an ALPA member. It will be because ALPA is not the organization that it once was, moreover it is a place where politics and big carrier power trumps the moral requirement to do what is right for the right reasons. The pilots at Air Tran will not be served well by ALPA.

I would love an opportunity to spend some time talking with you, face to face, in Atlanta on my dime. I feel passionate about what I am saying, but more importantly as a fellow professional pilot, one who cares deeply about this profession and about the people that fly the airplanes—and their families, I made the decision to take a chance and reach out to you and to hopefully cause you to explore your options. Please don’t get caught up in the moment and make a decision that I am certain will come back to haunt you. You do have options, and I believe much better options. And I believe that I might be able to help you explore those options. Of course at the end of the day the choice is yours, however I encourage you to give me a call or drop me an email. Like I said I will travel to Atlanta, in fact In would very much appreciate the opportunity to do so.

 

[michael707767]

Congratulations, Air Tran pilots. Welcome to the #1 Union for Pilots in America.

Yep, get ready for ALPA to start allowing the outsourcing of half your jobs.

 

[maxblast72]

ALPA does not determine whether an airline does well financially and survives in the post-deregulation environment. A strong management with a good business gameplan accompanied by a strong motivated employee group to execute that gameplan determines whether the airline survives or not.

ALPA will not dictate what Airtran pilots get in their future contract with Airtran Holdings. Airtran pilots, with ALPA advice and historical background, will determine what pay, work rules, and scope protections we feel is worth fighting for in future contracts. If ALPA doesn't work or we feel we are being played in a bigger national agenda, we can get rid of ALPA as quickly as we brought them in.

Bad business plans are bad business plans. ALPA did not contribute to the failure of airlines like Independence, ATA, or Midwest Express. Those airlines ended up where they are today due to bad business plans or business plans that were crushed by better business plans (like ATA not being able to compete with Southwest at Midway or Midwest not being able to compete with Airtran in MKE).

 

[maxblast72]

Yep, get ready for ALPA to start allowing the outsourcing of half your jobs.

The pilots are well aware of what Midwest management has done with a weak scope clause in MKE. The bottom 70% of pilots at Airtran are well aware of the possible future consequences of not having a strong scope clause. Voting ALPA in does not take away our right to vote on our next TA and scope clause.

At bigger airlines like Delta, it appears to me that the top 70% are protecting their own butts or retirements (at Continental) by relieving scope and selling the junior guys down the road. At Airtran the junior guys (6 or 7 years or less) are more unified in my opinion. Just look at the TA2 vote of 2007 and recall of the very senior leadership.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

ALPA is what you make of it, crap in crap out and hopefully quality in and quality out. I helped bring ALPA back on property by running the CAL EWR campaign in 2001. I was very optimistic after we brought ALPA back on property only later to be extremely disappointed. But as a whole our pilot group elected the weakest and most ineffective leaders well at least until today, ok humble I am not. . I was one of CAL's loudest and most radical critics of ALPA for the last six or so years.

Today I have stepped up to try and make a difference, will my team be successful, only time will tell? I will say this, I will make sure we avail ourselves of each and every resource ALPA provides, our pilots deserve nothing less.

Good luck to the Air Tran pilots, please let your union brothers and sisters at ALPA Council 170 know what we can do to help you.

Below is the content of our first blastmail to our pilots that was sent out earlier today.

Fraternally,

Jayson Baron

[FONT=&quot]CAL COUNCIL 170 LEC UPDATE[/FONT]​

Today is March 1, 2009, and a new day has dawned at Continental Airlines. Today, your newly elected EWR representatives take office, and when management wakes up this morning, their nightmare will have just begun.

As the leaders of over 2,200 Continental pilots, we represent just under one-half of the total pilots on our seniority list. We have spent the past three months building coalitions with the representatives from all of our other bases, and we will present a united front to management with this message: Your days of steamrolling the pilots of Continental are over.

Over the past several years, management has driven into a corner the most cooperative, complacent, and docile group of pilots anywhere¾not because they had to but because they could and for the sport of it. Our pay has been cut, our retirement has been destroyed, our authority as pilots has been worn away, and the few remaining benefits of our airline careers have been taken from us, one by one. Management will soon discover what happens when they trap even the meekest animal and then block the only path of escape.

As most of us have already learned, the phrase “Dignity and Respect” is just that¾a phrase. It has no more meaning to management than does their duty to honor our contract or to deposit money into our A-Fund retirement program. Some time ago, management made the decision to dishonor and devalue our contribution to the success of Continental Airlines. In the most cynical fashion possible, they used our professionalism and our pride in our duty as airline pilots, our finest and most enduring qualities, against us; they will soon regret the day they chose that path.

Our message today is a wake-up call to all pilots but especially to those who have not paid much attention to “union stuff” in the past. None of us¾none¾has the luxury of complacency any longer. We are owed the best contract in the airline business, but management doesn’t see it that way. If management had their way, we’d all be working for minimum wage with no retirement and zero benefits. What this means is that we will have to force management to sign the contract we deserve. To force them into this distasteful action, we have to convince them that the alternative to giving us what we deserve is going to be far more painful than signing on the line. And that’s where we all, as Continental pilots, come in.

We, as leaders, volunteered to step to the front and say, “Follow me!” Now we need the army behind us . . . and behind us in massive numbers. When we tell management that our pilots will do whatever it takes to get the contract of our lives, the army behind us must be visible, vocal, united¾and back up what we say with action.

Nobody wants to fight in an army that never wins a battle. Nobody wants to pay to see a football team that hasn’t won a game all season. We don’t, either, so we will bring these wins to you. They will be small at first, but they will be wins, and, with each win, our strength and numbers will grow as more and more of you volunteer to join the battle.

We were elected to change things, and change things we will. Be skeptical, but keep an open mind¾and come join us when we call. Victory will be ours . . . and so will the fruits of our victory.

Remember, fly the contract, don’t fly sick, don’t fly fatigued, don’t fly hungry when crew meals are not provided, and remember our 147 hostages and their families.

Captain Jayson Baron, EWR Council 170 Chairman
First Officer Tara Cook, EWR Council 170 Vice Chairman
Captain Kaye Riggs, EWR Council 170 Secretary-Treasurer

 

[PCL_128]

Jayson, I'm always glad to see a former SPC guy get into office. Good luck!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Jayson... the cool thing about democracy is we get to elect our leaders. The problem with that is we get to elect our leaders....


Where leaders are effective is creating a reasonable level of equality amongst all. When it comes to pilots and collective bargaining, it is all about egalitarian economics.

For example, at CAL, I understand, the new hires don't have healthcare for the first six months. If true this is a gross inequality. You have to change it. If it means taking from the senior fat cats, then so be it. Let them scream and rant on this one. This is fundamental.

The reason why new hire pilots are used as dish rags is obvious. Just because it is easy doesn't make it right.

Don't get me wrong, there are inadequacies in the senior ranks as well. Your MEC and NC have the challenge, just like all MECs do, of creating economically equal pilots all while respecting seniority and longevity.

We all understand the longer one is at a company, their pay and benefits should reflect. But lets be reasonable here....

Once we get ourselves economically aligned with the legacies, the next step is get the regionals inline with the legacies. We cannot sell out the future for today.

Why do we need to include the regionals? Because foreign ownership and cabatoge are going to bring a new wave of lower paid pilots willing to fly our jets. If we do not unify our ranks, we will be cherry picked and eliminated.

Economic alignment.

That is key to success.

In addition, you must maintain constant connection with your council members. Constant crewroom and training center visits are critical. At first it is fresh and motivating, however, it quickly gets old for the LEC Chair, Vice and S/T, but you've got to keep it up. As soon as you are 'out of sight, you are out of mind' and the typical perceptions of union officers sets in....

Aslo, LEC meetings are vital. While they seem to be losing focus at ALPA, this is the grassroots connection with your followership. In addition, your LEC meetings should be Leadership listen, pilots talk. Not the other way.

What leaders often miss is the enemy within; the degradation of your followerships moral, motivation, and support. Leaders will take this for granted and suddenly their council implodes.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Jayson... the cool thing about democracy is we get to elect our leaders. The problem with that is we get to elect our leaders....


Where leaders are effective is creating a reasonable level of equality amongst all. When it comes to pilots and collective bargaining, it is all about egalitarian economics.

For example, at CAL, I understand, the new hires don't have healthcare for the first six months. If true this is a gross inequality. You have to change it. If it means taking from the senior fat cats, then so be it. Let them scream and rant on this one. This is fundamental.

The reason why new hire pilots are used as dish rags is obvious. Just because it is easy doesn't make it right.

Don't get me wrong, there are inadequacies in the senior ranks as well. Your MEC and NC have the challenge, just like all MECs do, of creating economically equal pilots all while respecting seniority and longevity.

We all understand the longer one is at a company, their pay and benefits should reflect. But lets be reasonable here....

Once we get ourselves economically aligned with the legacies, the next step is get the regionals inline with the legacies. We cannot sell out the future for today.

Why do we need to include the regionals? Because foreign ownership and cabatoge are going to bring a new wave of lower paid pilots willing to fly our jets. If we do not unify our ranks, we will be cherry picked and eliminated.

Economic alignment.

That is key to success.

In addition, you must maintain constant connection with your council members. Constant crewroom and training center visits are critical. At first it is fresh and motivating, however, it quickly gets old for the LEC Chair, Vice and S/T, but you've got to keep it up. As soon as you are 'out of sight, you are out of mind' and the typical perceptions of union officers sets in....

Aslo, LEC meetings are vital. While they seem to be losing focus at ALPA, this is the grassroots connection with your followership. In addition, your LEC meetings should be Leadership listen, pilots talk. Not the other way.

What leaders often miss is the enemy within; the degradation of your followerships moral, motivation, and support. Leaders will take this for granted and suddenly their council implodes.

Rez,

You are correct new hires make poverty wages with no insurance for the first six months. They then endure a "B" scale, years two through six.

Our goal is to get the senior pilot to fight for the new hire pay and insurance issue and conversely to get the junior pilot to fight for the senior pilots retirement. Together, unified we will prevail or individually we will fail.

Thanks for the words of advice.