Not so good news about flight 3407

[WSurf]

Sorry Surf, in no way was I directing my comments at you. Your post was good for all to read and see how fast it can happen. Which goes along with why I wish more pilots I see would shadow the controls and be ready.

Yea, no problem. I agree with you, and the worst thing I hate to see is a pilot using the autopilot flying the plane to mins. and having neither hand on the yoke and throttles. Being at Two Hundred feet above the ground and sitting on your hands is in no way a smart thing to do.

 

[surplus1]

?????

Just curious - Who makes the avionics in the Q-400?

Is it all 'standard' or do operators have options?

 

[Captzaahlie]

?????

Just curious - Who makes the avionics in the Q-400?

Is it all 'standard' or do operators have options?

Mattel?

OK I was just kidding! I LOVED flying the 100,200,&300 vs and prob would have wet my pants driving the 400....

Advanced Avionics

The Q400 cockpit, the most modern of any turboprop, is fitted with a state-of-the-art avionics suite from Thales. With less weight and fewer parts, the Thales suite offers higher reliability than comparable older technology avionics.

The Q400 avionics suite also features a centralized diagnostic system to help pilots and mechanics quickly resolve problems. Its modular design also makes the system easy to upgrade or to add optional equipment.

An optional Head Up Guidance System (HGS®) displays actual aircraft approach flight path and projected touch down point. The system is allowing Horizon Air to fly single-engine approaches to Category III (Cat. III) weather minima - a first for a commercial regional airline aircraft.

source:

http://www.q400.com/q400/en/technology.jsp

I'm sure the operator or leasing company gets some say so in how many bells and whistles they want , depending on the size of the order.

 

[asayankee]

I once had the seal on the CRJ 200 radome fail. The compartment filled up with roughly 6 inches of water totally submerging the glideslope antenna....which is shared by all three GS receivers. All three of them were telling us something erratic and different. Needless to say the autopilot was attempting to perform some pretty drastic maneuvers trying to keep up. I had to quickly regain control manually.

Moral of the story...use it as a tool, but never trust it!!! Equipment failures happen.

 

[surplus1]

OK Thales Group avionics, thank you. Would you know if its the Top Deck system?

Mattel Never a dull moment, eh?.

 

[Captzaahlie]

OK Thales Group avionics, thank you. Would you know if its the Top Deck system?

Mattel Never a dull moment, eh?.

http://www.q400.com/q400/ssi/q400_video.jsp?video=enhanced_naviagation_en&langue=en

 

[airplane wizard]

Holy Crap Batman!

don't you mean "holy deflected glideslope Batman"

 

[flyboyike]

Not true, Columbia was not equipped to dock at the station. It was the only shuttle not set up with a docking port. Nasa also declined the airforce's offer to view the shuttles belly form orbit with a high powered telescope which would have revealed the damage to the leading edge of the left wing. Columbia was not in the right orbit and did not have enough fuel to reach the station.

I also understand that the idea of sending up another Shuttle to remove the crew off the Columbia was considered, but scrapped due to the concept of potentially ending up with two ships and two crews in trouble, especially with a hurried launch of the "rescue ship".

OT, of course.

 

[Lilah]

So, does the airspeed tape on the Q-400 have a "trend vector" on it? Also, are those cute red bars also there as a warning cue with respect to flying too slow?

A friend of mine has had this signature line for years...

"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Fly Safe,

Lilah

 

[rickair7777]

I also understand that the idea of sending up another Shuttle to remove the crew off the Columbia was considered, but scrapped due to the concept of potentially ending up with two ships and two crews in trouble, especially with a hurried launch of the "rescue ship".

OT, of course.

I don't think anyone at nasa thought there was a significant risk before the re-entry. There was no consideration for a rescue, or any other risk reduction measures.

 

[IBNAV8R]

I don't think anyone at nasa thought there was a significant risk before the re-entry. There was no consideration for a rescue, or any other risk reduction measures.

I wasn't there but I highly suspect there were people (engineers) who voiced grave concerns only have them dismissed by managers who "knew better." Wouldn't have been the first time.

 

[atrdriver]

I wasn't there but I highly suspect there were people (engineers) who voiced grave concerns only have them dismissed by managers who "knew better." Wouldn't have been the first time.

That's pretty much what happened with Challenger.

 

[Papa Woody]

For another Q400 to come in right afterwards is just all you need to well, jump real quick to conclusions.

Exactly.

The media would have you believe that, if icing were the cause, then every plane within 50 miles of Buffalo would have crashed simultaneously.

 

[rickair7777]

I wasn't there but I highly suspect there were people (engineers) who voiced grave concerns only have them dismissed by managers who "knew better." Wouldn't have been the first time.

My understanding was that the low-level folks who analyzed the images of the debris impact were not too concerned about it, based on the fact that it had happened many times before. They just didn't know how lucky they had been in the past. They did request imaging additional inspections, which management refused.

The Challenger was a different story...an engineer told them EXACTLY what would happen in no uncertain terms, and he was forceful about. They still ignored him...

 

[regionaltard]

The Normalization of Deviation.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I had increased thrust, but not enough to compensate for the drag from the flight spoilers. It took the jumpseater behind us to say 'spoilers' (yes this was humbling for me) before I clued in. But in that momemt before I got SA back I had increased thrust some, and done nothing to the pitch attitude.

Didn't you get the spoiler caution msg, when the thrust levers were pushed up close to max?(I forget the TLA angle)
PBR

 

[Flyin2low]

Didn't you get the spoiler caution msg, when the thrust levers were pushed up close to max?(I forget the TLA angle)
PBR

I would suppose not because he said the J/S rider advised him. A good technique to use flight spoilers is to keep your hand on the handle until you stow them. That way you couldn't increase thrust until your hand is available for it.

 

[WSurf]

That way you couldn't increase thrust until your hand is available for it.

Man, you could go a million ways with that statement.

ps - insert smiley

 

[ReverseSensing]

So, does the airspeed tape on the Q-400 have a "trend vector" on it? Also, are those cute red bars also there as a warning cue with respect to flying too slow?

Yes and yes.

 

[DTWFO]

The glideslope will shoot down from above just enough to trigger at GS capture and then it heads right back up just as quickly. If you're not on top of it, the airplane will pitch up quickly with resulting airspeed decay. Even disconnecting in a timely manner you can lose 15 knots in a matter of a couple seconds.

Fortunately the CRJ flight director reacts so slowly on an approach that this is rare. Half the time I can't figure out how the thing ever got certified at all.

 

[FlySacto]

Not true, Columbia was not equipped to dock at the station. It was the only shuttle not set up with a docking port. Nasa also declined the airforce's offer to view the shuttles belly form orbit with a high powered telescope which would have revealed the damage to the leading edge of the left wing. Columbia was not in the right orbit and did not have enough fuel to reach the station.

You are correct but I'd take an "educated guess" that the idea of burning fuel in an "asset" to photograph the shuttle was eventually discounted as being a moot point as there were NO other option but deorbit. There were no other fixes or band-aides they could have used. There are a few guys here who have known me since way back when I worked as a part time flight instructor during the day, and full time at night in a "class A" facility as a civilian contractor that steered X-band radar around the sky 24/7. What we might have known never did, or could have ever known, mattered in this situation.

 

[Captzaahlie]

Don't Let Walter Find Out You Are Discussing Things Off Topic!​

 

[WSurf]

Don't Let Walter Find Out You Are Discussing Things Off Topic!​

Not only that, I really don't wanna see him crying to the mods again.

 

[Crossky]

Didn't you get the spoiler caution msg, when the thrust levers were pushed up close to max?(I forget the TLA angle)
PBR

No, the thrust levers were never advanced enough to activate reach the microswitch which would give the spoilers CAS message. I maybe increased thrust a little, as I was still still to figure out what just happened, post shaker and pusher. The airplane was still flying, and we were basically in stable, flight, with a slight descent. Within 2-3 seconds the jumpseater said 'spoilers', the CA retracted them, and I had SA back, grumbling at myself inside.

It was visual conditions as I said, and we had ORD in sight. If I was IMC I would've reacted more urgently I suspect. We were about 6-8 mi out on GS so about 1800-2400 AGL.

CA wrote an irregularity report and we never heard a word from management.

Don't rat me out!