ABX Severance pay

[aviatrix767]

Aviatrix.....you are either a narcissistic lier who hides behind the cloak of anothers screen-name or a dual personality wacky who's even crazier than I thought......either way my friend....you have rendered yourself irrelevant. You may not know jack about things at AStar.....but as far as the workings at 1224, you and I both know you are very knowledgeable......so ya got THAT goin for ya. As far "stalking" you....I think we both know that ain't true either. My final word to the FInfo crowd on you.....On 1224 issues....the guy at least SHOULD know what he's talkin about....outside of that.....buyer beware. What a whackjob....good luck my friend....yer gonna need it! You really don't want me to post in a public forum the PM's you sent me on Finfo....so why don't you just go back to lurkin in the shadows. Its what you do best.

Just so you know, you're the one that's getting laughed at because many at ABX know who I am - and I'm NOT with 1224.

But that's okay, you keep on trying to convince everyone that I am a guy at 1224. Actually it appears you've already convinced a few. LOL Keep that in mind should you decide to post any private conversations... ROFLMAO

Having said that - just get back to the topic at hand here - ABX severance. Sheesh.....

 

[AV8OR]

Whatever dude.

 

[AV8OR]

And for the record....you can rest easy Trix.....I'll not post your PMs. You provide enough comedy all on your own.

 

[DC-8_FR8]

Just so you know, you're the one that's getting laughed at because many at ABX know who I am - and I'm NOT with 1224.

I am just a simple man, but how is that possible? Do you have non CBA pilots? Are you a cross dressing standards pilot or a CP?

 

[Mach88]

Wilmington News Article from 1224 President

R​

​

ecent headlines tell
us of the shameful
bonuses Wall Street
executives awarded themselves,
nearly $20 billion,
while the U.S. government
was spending hundreds of billions
of taxpayer dollars to
bail them out. Executives
from an express cargo airline
in Wilmington, Ohio, ABX
Air, and a relatively new parent
holding company, Air
Transport Services Group
(ATSG), have proven themselves
equally irresponsible
and unabashedly self-serving.
As hopelessness and
despair spread among their
employees, their communities
and their shareholders, executives
at ABX and ATSG
amended their executive
retirement plans late last year
to pad their multi-million-dollar
severance packages. They
did this while their frustrated
primary customer, DHL,
courted more expensive competitors
to provide domestic
express delivery services.
These so-called corporate
leaders did this even though
ATSG stock tanked during
their watch, bleak ATSG balance
sheets show assets are
down while liabilities are up,
and ATSG stock may soon be
de-listed from NASDAQ.
Every significant business
decision by ATSG executives
has resulted in a decrease in
stock value.
While their employees load
planes on frigid winter nights,
knowing they are about to
lose their jobs, ATSG and
ABX executives load their
wallets. While ABX pilots fulfill
their end of a severance
and retention agreement with
DHL by working hard to
maintain on-time performance,
ABX executives actively
block severance funds intended
for workers who lose their
jobs. They could not pick a
worse time to try to justify
beefing up their retirement
plans. Wilmington is Ground
Zero for unscrupulous corporate
behavior.
A senior U.S. Senator,
when told of ABX business
practices, contacted the
Department of Transportation,
the National Labor Relations
Board and the Federal Labor
Relations Authority to voice
his outrage and seek corrective
action. ABX/ATSG
clients have no choice but to
resort to the force of law to
resolve their differences with
ABX executives. One client
charged ABX executives with
“conscious delay” and “deliberate
falsehoods,” and said,
“We expect those with whom
we do business to operate
with integrity and honor their
commitments. In ABX’s case
this concept appears to be foreign.”
At a time like this, while
working families suffer, one
might expect some restraint,
some discipline, and some
sense of responsibility. Not
from ATSG and ABX executives.
In their scheme to drive
down employee wages and
evade pension liabilities, they
inefficiently operate three separate
airlines under the ATSG
umbrella with top-heavy management
and unnecessary layers
of bureaucracy. They
recruited managers from ATA,
and their parent holding company,
Global Aero Logistics,
who destroyed highly skilled
and high-paying jobs by outsourcing
them to foreign
countries, and then liquidated
that airline through bankruptcy.
ATSG executives fattened
up their own retirement plans,
then turned around and issued
hundreds of furlough letters to
pilots without even acknowledging
the severance money
promised them by DHL.
Instead, that severance money
is being held hostage by ABX
and used as unfair leverage
for a follow-on Collective
Bargaining Agreement with
the few pilots who may
remain on the payroll.
Transactions by ABX and
ATSG deserve congressional
investigation. Clearly, a primary
goal is to evade pension
obligations. By not providing
prompt payment of the severance
money committed by
DHL, ABX would cost the
state of Ohio $4 million in
unemployment insurance benefits
and cost the federal government
$17 million in lost
tax revenue. Some employees
will be forced into bankruptcy
and foreclosure, their families
destroyed. Lay-offs are not
just accounting tools; they
have real consequences for
real people.
The actions of ATSG and
ABX executives represent the
height of executive irresponsibility
and unapologetic
corporate greed. They are
shameful.
———​

Capt. Joseph Muckle is an
ABX Air pilot and president of
the Airline Professionals
Association of Teamsters Local​

1224.

 

[wickedride]

Nicely said, Joey !!!
Thanks

 

[hvydriver]

Well done!

 

[laserman2431]

OK. I'm probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer so let me say what I think I've heard and you guys can tell me what I got wrong.

1. DHL has allocated $75 million for ABX Pilot severance pay.

2. DHL has stipulated that ABX and local 1224 must come to an agreement about how the money will be dispersed before it can be released.

3. ATSG/ABX management wants the money to be used to fund the pension. This will relieve the company of the responsibility so they can keep more money.

4. Local 1224 does not want the $75 million to be used to fund the pension.

Last May we had about 650 pilots. The company projects that we will have about 275 left when all the dust settles. That means 375 will be displaced. If the $75 million were divided among the displaced workers it would come to $200,000 per laid off pilot.

Please tell me which parts I got wrong and if there are any other important details that I have missed.

Thanks.

 

[mxer]

OK. I'm probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer so let me say what I think I've heard and you guys can tell me what I got wrong.

1. DHL has allocated $75 million for ABX Pilot severance pay.

2. DHL has stipulated that ABX and local 1224 must come to an agreement about how the money will be dispersed before it can be released.

3. ATSG/ABX management wants the money to be used to fund the pension. This will relieve the company of the responsibility so they can keep more money.

4. Local 1224 does not want the $75 million to be used to fund the pension.

Last May we had about 650 pilots. The company projects that we will have about 275 left when all the dust settles. That means 375 will be displaced. If the $75 million were divided among the displaced workers it would come to $200,000 per laid off pilot.

Please tell me which parts I got wrong and if there are any other important details that I have missed.

Thanks.

Your getting closer. Call the hall and ask for whoever is in. They can straighten out where you have drifted off course.

 

[nitefr8dog]

OK. I'm probably not the sharpest knife in the drawer so let me say what I think I've heard and you guys can tell me what I got wrong.

1. DHL has allocated $75 million for ABX Pilot severance pay.

2. DHL has stipulated that ABX and local 1224 must come to an agreement about how the money will be dispersed before it can be released.

3. ATSG/ABX management wants the money to be used to fund the pension. This will relieve the company of the responsibility so they can keep more money.

4. Local 1224 does not want the $75 million to be used to fund the pension.

Last May we had about 650 pilots. The company projects that we will have about 275 left when all the dust settles. That means 375 will be displaced. If the $75 million were divided among the displaced workers it would come to $200,000 per laid off pilot.

Please tell me which parts I got wrong and if there are any other important details that I have missed.

Thanks.

Laser, you are right about the knife part! You are making this alot harder than it is. The union hotline said the money would be divided among all pilots on the seniority list as of 5/28/08. That would be split at your curent seat and pay level. In your plan those that stay do not get anything for the retension portion that DHL said they would pay for. Also if their job goes away in a week, month or 6 months who would pony up then? If you where making 100k a year do you think you should get 200K? when you get laid off? Maybe you should get off the pipe!

 

[erichartmann]

1. DHL has allocated $75 million for ABX Pilot severance pay.

That's severence and retention pay. I realize that some of you who are about to be or already have been furloughed don't think those amoung us who are leaving for other jobs or going to hang on to the bitter end should get anything at all. After all, as your logic goes, they still have jobs. This is argueably true for those resigning to go to other jobs, but the truth is that those who stay, whatever their reason, may not have jobs either come July '09. They will, most if not all of them, have problems similar to your own. They will need something to help tide them over until the economy picks back up and they can find another job. If the jobs are gone because the company has filed bankruptcy some will be forced into retirement at substantially less than what had been promised. No amount of severence or retention will make up that loss, but that is no reason they should be excluded.

2. DHL has stipulated that ABX and local 1224 must come to an agreement about how the money will be dispersed before it can be released.

True. I can just imagine the laughter in the DPWN/DHL boardroom as they contemplate us squabbling with our management over this.

3. ATSG/ABX management wants the money to be used to fund the pension. This will relieve the company of the responsibility so they can keep more money.

Again, true or somewhat true. As I understand it management wants part of the money to go to the pension fund. This would "free up" other funds to pay a portion of the debt load, and argueably make the difference between the company surviving and our having recall rights, no matter how unlikely for some,to a going concern.

4. Local 1224 does not want the $75 million to be used to fund the pension.

Again, true. From the hotlines and meetings, as I understand it, money put into the pension fund at this late date could be pulled out by a bankruptcy judge. Further, the money would not be adequate to fully fund and close the pension, so putting it there on the possibility that the company might survive as a result is a huge gamble. If the gamble fails we all lose.

Last May we had about 650 pilots. The company projects that we will have about 275 left when all the dust settles. That means 375 will be displaced. If the $75 million were divided among the displaced workers it would come to $200,000 per laid off pilot.

Please tell me which parts I got wrong and if there are any other important details that I have missed.

Thanks.

Again, once the dust settles none of us may have jobs. From that perspective alone I think all of us who are not leaving voluntarily for other jobs are entitled to a portion of the money in some fashion. The union's plan, as I understand it, was to treat it all as a form of severence with some of it being paid out to those who are furloughed and some being held in a form of escrow to be paid out if those remaining were to lose their jobs in the next 3 years. On the face of it, that solution begs some questions.

My optimum solution would be to fully fund and close the pension with some mechanism in place to allow those who need to use some of that money access to it. This would protect those about to retire and allow other to keep and use money they might otherwise never see. I don't know if that is even possible legally, and I doubt managment will agree, as it would require money from them, or additional funds from DHL to get the job done. That my perspective, I'm sure your mileage differs.

Since my optimum solution is DOA another will have to be found.

I think it totaly unreasonable that anyone should expect roughly twice their annual base pay to the exclusion of the rest of us in the event of a furlough.

I could, with some reservations, support a plan which provided a projected distribution based on annual base as of May 2008 with the actual distribution to occur when you lose your job.

The bottom line for all of us is that DPWN/DHL chose, for their own reasons, to pit our management against us over this money. In the end, there will have to be some compromise none of us will like or we may well risk all of the money going away. I, for one, would like to know exactly what the agreement between DPWN/DHL and our mangement specifies with respect to the money. Does it revert to DHL once they pull the plug? What happens to it if the company goes bankrupt?

 

[laserman2431]

Laser, you are right about the knife part! You are making this alot harder than it is. The union hotline said the money would be divided among all pilots on the seniority list as of 5/28/08. That would be split at your curent seat and pay level. In your plan those that stay do not get anything for the retension portion that DHL said they would pay for. Also if their job goes away in a week, month or 6 months who would pony up then? If you where making 100k a year do you think you should get 200K? when you get laid off? Maybe you should get off the pipe!

Thanks for your comment. I think we need this kind of dialog.

Your statement "In your plan those that stay do not get anything for the retension (sp) portion that DHL said they would pay for" is difficult for me to address because I do not have a "plan." I was not proposing that everyone should get $200.000. I was only stating that as a way to put it into meaningful terms. Kind of like when reporters tell us how much the government stimulus package would be if divided among all Americans. Sorry if that part was confusing. I am not making a proposal at this time. Only trying to understand what 1224 is proposing.

I think a more pertinent question is "is 1224 opposed to using the $75 million to fund the pension plan?" That is what I think I have heard. Can anyone address that question?

 

[nitefr8dog]

Thanks for your comment. I think we need this kind of dialog.

Your statement "In your plan those that stay do not get anything for the retension (sp) portion that DHL said they would pay for" is difficult for me to address because I do not have a "plan." I was not proposing that everyone should get $200.000. I was only stating that as a way to put it into meaningful terms. Kind of like when reporters tell us how much the government stimulus package would be if divided among all Americans. Sorry if that part was confusing. I am not making a proposal at this time. Only trying to understand what 1224 is proposing.

I think a more pertinent question is "is 1224 opposed to using the $75 million to fund the pension plan?" That is what I think I have heard. Can anyone address that question?

Again Laser, I have to ask have you ever once called the union hotline? All of these questions are answered.

 

[laserman2431]

Dog. I have listened to all available information. I asked the question because there have been conflicting statements.

Why don't you say what you think is the answer to the question "is 1224 opposed to using the $75 million to fund the pension plan?" I wouldn't think it should be a secret.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Dog. I have listened to all available information. I asked the question because there have been conflicting statements.

Why don't you say what you think is the answer to the question "is 1224 opposed to using the $75 million to fund the pension plan?" I wouldn't think it should be a secret.

Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, did I say Yes? Laser again this has been said over and over. Eric also answered this question in #4 above. CALL THE UNION HALL! they can answer all your questions.

 

[laserman2431]

Yes,Yes,Yes,Yes, did I say Yes?

Dog. You're a feisty b!tch but that's OK. I already forgave you and you didn't even have to ask.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Dog. You're a feisty b!tch but that's OK. I already forgave you and you didn't even have to ask.

Laser, you can read!

 

[erichartmann]

Laser, you can read!

I too was begining to wonder if he could. Now all we have to do is work on comprehension.:cartman:

 

[laserman2431]

deleted

 

[AV8OR]

Good call delting that Laserman...seriously.