Alaska Airlines petitions DOT on Virgin status

[westward]

Good idea.

You mean to tell me the powers at Alaska think this is a good idea?

You will approach the new administration that has yet to unpack and you think they'll drop everything for this?

That they'll drop new business to re-tread the inspection of the most scrutinized start-up ever?

When this country is losing thousands of jobs, they will actually work for more job losses by shuttering the doors?

The Obama administration has been accused of fostering trade protectionism, so they will fight that by throwing out a foreign investor and risk losing billions and billions in a trade war?

All over an airline that has, what, 22-24 aircraft?

What about Jet Blue?

And never mind Allegiant is eating your lunch as well.

The only thing Alaska's admitting is they cannot compete. It sounds like desperation or just plain panic.

[FONT=&quot]Sorry to hear things are that bad.[/FONT]

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

You will approach the new administration that has yet to unpack and you think they'll drop everything for this?

That they'll drop new business to re-tread the inspection of the most scrutinized start-up ever?

When this country is losing thousands of jobs, they will actually work for more job losses by shuttering the doors?

The Obama administration has been accused of fostering trade protectionism, so they will fight that by throwing out a foreign investor and risk losing billions and billions in a trade war?

Gee, you don't think the President himself will put off picking a new puppy to fly over and help us? 'Cus that's what we thought would happen.

Scutinized? I don't know much about that to be honest, but if it was scrutinized by the same folks who scrutinized KBR, Halliburton, etc, then I'd say it might take another looking at.

And it's not a matter of losing jobs or gaining jobs, it's who is going to keep said jobs, in my opinion. Personally, I'd rather a an established pilot group stuck around rather than have slash and burn airlines start up.

 

[tzskipper]

Gee, you don't think the President himself will put off picking a new puppy to fly over and help us? 'Cus that's what we thought would happen.

Scutinized? I don't know much about that to be honest, but if it was scrutinized by the same folks who scrutinized KBR, Halliburton, etc, then I'd say it might take another looking at.

And it's not a matter of losing jobs or gaining jobs, it's who is going to keep said jobs, in my opinion. Personally, I'd rather a an established pilot group stuck around rather than have slash and burn airlines start up.

Again, most all of VA's pilots were "established" at other U.S. carriers, and with no other real options for re-employment....

Out of curiosity, is there an issue with ALK "code sharing" with V Australia out of LAX, since those are foreign pilots operating the long haul portion of the flying? I mean jeez, VA's pilots have paid dues, walked lines and supported their previous pilot groups, and yet you seem to want to toss them under the bus. Give them some time to get re-established and see where it goes.

Skipper

 

[Chief Pilot]

tzskipper,

The pilots at VA have nothing to do with whether or not the company is following the laws set forth for a U.S. Domestic airline. If VA cannot classify itself legally as a U.S. owned and controlled airline, then it opens a huge can of worms for you, me and the rest of the "established" airline pilots throughout this country and should not be allowed to operate. If it can pass scrutiny then they should be allowed to continue.

I don't think anyone really believes that SRB doesn't exert a great deal of influence, especially financially, to his pet project here in the States. Hell even VA folks have bragged about how his deep pockets will keep them afloat.

Alaska Airlines, and every other domestic carrier out there, has every right to ensure that a direct competitor is not sidestepping the laws and competing unfairly.

 

[SaabStory]

You mean to tell me the powers at Alaska think this is a good idea?

You will approach the new administration that has yet to unpack and you think they'll drop everything for this?

That they'll drop new business to re-tread the inspection of the most scrutinized start-up ever?

When this country is losing thousands of jobs, they will actually work for more job losses by shuttering the doors?

The Obama administration has been accused of fostering trade protectionism, so they will fight that by throwing out a foreign investor and risk losing billions and billions in a trade war?

All over an airline that has, what, 22-24 aircraft?

What about Jet Blue?

And never mind Allegiant is eating your lunch as well.

The only thing Alaska's admitting is they cannot compete. It sounds like desperation or just plain panic.

[FONT=&quot]Sorry to hear things are that bad.[/FONT]

We have a winner.....

 

[tzskipper]

tzskipper,

The pilots at VA have nothing to do with whether or not the company is following the laws set forth for a U.S. Domestic airline. If VA cannot classify itself legally as a U.S. owned and controlled airline, then it opens a huge can of worms for you, me and the rest of the "established" airline pilots throughout this country and should not be allowed to operate. If it can pass scrutiny then they should be allowed to continue.

I don't think anyone really believes that SRB doesn't exert a great deal of influence, especially financially, to his pet project here in the States. Hell even VA folks have bragged about how his deep pockets will keep them afloat.

Alaska Airlines, and every other domestic carrier out there, has every right to ensure that a direct competitor is not sidestepping the laws and competing unfairly.

So if VA is found to be in compliance, this whole debate can be put to bed?

 

[Chief Pilot]

So if VA is found to be in compliance, this whole debate can be put to bed?

Wouldn't that be the point in the findings of a DOT inquiry? Of course. Then it would be up to the pilots to actually do something positive for themselves and, as a byproduct, the rest of the industry.

And for Westward and Saabstory, why don't you pick up a recent financial report or couple-week-old business journal to find out whether or not Alaska can compete. The fact is they shouldn't have to compete with a company that is in violation of the law. If you don't get it, then you are either ignorant or a VA pilot worried about your job.

It would be hard to imagine that Alaska management would put this much effort into petitioning the DOT if they thought nothing would come from it.

 

[tzskipper]

Wouldn't that be the point in the findings of a DOT inquiry? Of course. Then it would be up to the pilots to actually do something positive for themselves and, as a byproduct, the rest of the industry.

And for Westward and Saabstory, why don't you pick up a recent financial report or couple-week-old business journal to find out whether or not Alaska can compete. The fact is they shouldn't have to compete with a company that is in violation of the law. If you don't get it, then you are either ignorant or a VA pilot worried about your job.

It would be hard to imagine that Alaska management would put this much effort into petitioning the DOT if they thought nothing would come from it.

For the sake of clarity, I am neither ignorant or worried about a job. I just find it interesting that some companies (ALK in this case) go to any length in order to not have to compete. Doesn't free market truly mean free? Competition means improvements in products and services, something that ALK doesn't seem capable of providing. I am sure it is not easy competing against a well funded upstart who's product is focused on guest service and great technology, but hey, this is America... If you can't (or don't want to..) compete, then sue somebody (or the equivalent in this case...).

In regards to Alaska management's efforts to petition, there is no downside. If they are wrong (which I believe will happen, as the ownership and management of VA are not ignorant of the law either, and I doubt they are foolish enough to jeopardize a multi-hundred million dollar investment over an oversight of this issue), the issue goes away after smearing the the name and reputation of the new company. Goal somewhat accomplished.

Goodnight and good luck.

Skipper

 

[SpinDoctor]

Ya, How could Alaska ever compete with such killer numbers. I'm trying to find any positive numbers in there....hmmm, still looking, hmmm, oh well. The only positive at that airline is that their uniforms are positively retarded. How hard is it to turn a profit when your total crew cost is less than a SWA CA hourly?
Also, look at what Alaska/VA compete on (SEA-LAX/SFO) 60 AND 65% LF respectively. Killer!!!

May you walk the path of Skybus.......

2008Q2 is the latest data that they filed with the Department of Transportation, so its what I present here.

By Quarter:
Route …....... Cost/Qtr …....... Rev/Qtr …....... Loss/Qtr …....... Margin
JFK-LAX … $30,831,959.50 … $19,932,186.30 … $(10,899,773.20) … -54.7%
LAS-SFO … $11,096,213.31 … $6,874,314.62 … $(4,221,898.69) … -61.4%
LAX-SFO … $12,859,687.10 … $7,799,454.39 … $(5,060,232.72) … -64.9%
IAD-SFO … $18,255,375.61 … $10,719,583.18 … $(7,535,792.42) … -70.3%
JFK-SFO … $30,473,573.58 … $17,372,548.07 … $(13,101,025.51) … -75.4%
SEA-SFO … $9,132,320.65 … $4,729,723.06 … $(4,402,597.59) … -93.1%
IAD-LAX … $17,504,056.12 … $8,797,902.36 … $(8,706,153.75) … -99.0%
SAN-SFO … $11,400,680.27 … $5,303,068.20 … $(6,097,612.06) … -115.0%
LAX-SEA … $12,244,865.52 … $4,917,505.21 … $(7,327,360.31) … -149.0%

By Departure
Route …....... Cost/Dep …....... Rev/Dep …....... Loss/Dep …....... Margin
JFK-LAX … $41,274.38 … $26,682.98 … $(14,591.40) … -54.7%
LAS-SFO … $12,538.09 … $7,767.59 … $(4,770.51) … -61.4%
LAX-SFO … $11,153.24 … $6,764.49 … $(4,388.75) … -64.9%
IAD-SFO … $40,388.00 … $23,715.89 … $(16,672.11) … -70.3%
JFK-SFO … $40,255.71 … $22,949.20 … $(17,306.51) … -75.4%
SEA-SFO … $16,943.08 … $8,775.00 … $(8,168.08) … -93.1%
IAD-LAX … $37,562.35 … $18,879.62 … $(18,682.73) … -99.0%
SAN-SFO … $12,984.83 … $6,039.94 … $(6,944.89) … -115.0%
LAX-SEA … $20,789.25 … $8,348.91 … $(12,440.34) … -149.0%

By Available Seat Mile (ASM)
Route …....... CASM …....... RASM …....... Loss/ASM …....... Margin
JFK-LAX … $0.11200 … $0.07241 … $(0.03960) … -54.7%
LAS-SFO … $0.22444 … $0.13905 … $(0.08540) … -61.4%
LAX-SFO … $0.24782 … $0.15031 … $(0.09752) … -64.9%
IAD-SFO … $0.11214 … $0.06585 … $(0.04629) … -70.3%
JFK-SFO … $0.11009 … $0.06276 … $(0.04733) … -75.4%
SEA-SFO … $0.17922 … $0.09282 … $(0.08640) … -93.1%
IAD-LAX … $0.11459 … $0.05760 … $(0.05700) … -99.0%
SAN-SFO … $0.21625 … $0.10059 … $(0.11566) … -115.0%
LAX-SEA … $0.15615 … $0.06271 … $(0.09344) … -149.0%

[SIZE=-4][Edited 2009-02-03 19:19:48][/SIZE]
Load Factors
For 2nd quarter

From IAD:
LAX - 77%
SFO - 80%

From JFK:
LAX: 83%
SFO: 76%

From LAS:
SFO - 77%

From LAX:
IAD: 78%
JFK: 84%
SEA: 63%
SFO: 76%

From SAN:
SFO: 70%

From SEA:
LAX: 60%
SFO: 65%

From SFO:
IAD - 84%
JFK - 79%
LAS- 76%
LAX - 75%
SAN - 70%
SEA - 66%

 

[WSurf]

Wouldn't that be the point in the findings of a DOT inquiry? Of course. Then it would be up to the pilots to actually do something positive for themselves and, as a byproduct, the rest of the industry.

And for Westward and Saabstory, why don't you pick up a recent financial report or couple-week-old business journal to find out whether or not Alaska can compete. The fact is they shouldn't have to compete with a company that is in violation of the law. If you don't get it, then you are either ignorant or a VA pilot worried about your job.

It would be hard to imagine that Alaska management would put this much effort into petitioning the DOT if they thought nothing would come from it.

Now we have a winner........

 

[clickclickboom]

The whole point can be summarized:

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

If Alaska is going to play by the rules than VA is and Alaska is making sure as VA has shown that they feel the regular rules do not apply to them.

I am normally quite neutral and dont express radical opinions but f-uck those va bast-ards. I would rather see some mexican airline flying dc6's in this country

 

[Fubijaakr]

If you don't get it, then you are either ignorant or a VA pilot worried about your job.

I seriously doubt they're ignorant. So...

 

[Noserider76]

The only thing Alaska's admitting is they cannot compete. It sounds like desperation or just plain panic.

When your competition pays their flight crews food stamp wages so they can trash yields everywhere they go you damn sure want to make sure they're abiding by what few rules there are.

 

[Old School 737]

When your competition pays their flight crews food stamp wages so they can trash yields everywhere they go you damn sure want to make sure they're abiding by what few rules there are.

Well said!!!

 

[jayme]

When your competition pays their flight crews food stamp wages so they can trash yields everywhere they go you damn sure want to make sure they're abiding by what few rules there are.

Is my $44/hr somehow more deserving of food stamps than the $30/hr I was offered to go to work for NorthWest?