Ifs

[Twasilew]

Just curious how the IFS program is running these days. Is the Air Force now sending every UPT candidate through, including guard and reserve guys who may already have a PPL and several hundred hours of flying time?

 

[frog_flyer]

All Reservists will be going through as of August, and I believe all ANG folks already have to.

I have 300 hours, but I'm happy to take the 6 weeks of orders!

 

[SIG600]

Navy won't let anyone with prior flight time go through it.

 

[Twasilew]

Wow, I know a guy that just picked up a UPT slot who has about 2000 hours. What a waste of taxpayer money to teach him to fly a Diamond.

 

[SIG600]

I dump more gas on a single flight then he'll spend on katana time. You haven't seen anything yet.

 

[Twasilew]

You may have dumped plenty, but your sortie was still fulfilling some type of purpose. You've missed my point completely.

I've seen plenty of government waste to the point where it is sickening. In this economy, every little bit counts. Eventually, this war will end, and so will our funding.

I wonder what Doss Aviation charges the American taxpayer to teach a 2000 hour airline pilot how to do turns around a point...or better yet stand up EP's. Totally ridiculous, that money could be spent much better elsewhere.

 

[AlbieF15]

In fact, if this guy is ID'd as someone who can't learn to fly the "standard" way or to relearn and adapt to military training, he could easily be removed from training.

I agree that if it was just stalls and landings that they were training, it would be a waste. But this is also a way to find how a person handles a standup, deals with being part of a class, and takes instruction from others. I'd say its 99% he will do very well at all the above, but if they eliminate ONE person who does not they probably have saved the cost of the program.

I had a CFII when I went to UPT, one guy had 2000 hours of learjet time, and another guy was an Army helicopter pilot. We each did great in tweets, but also both know to STFU and listen and do what we were told to do. Although I never saw it, I've heard horror stories of guys showing up unable to adapt to the rigors of the military style training despite tons of expereince in other areas.

Just my two cents...

 

[Twasilew]

I see your points. It's my opinion that seeing how a person handles standup (or stressful situations), being part of a team, and taking instruction can be weeded out at OTS, AMS, ROTC...etc. Hell, even a UPT board. I'd be curious to know what the IFS washout rate is? I'd hate to be that guy! As a Kitana Instructor, you'd have to have some huge balls to wash out a guy with thousands of hours. I just don't see it happening. I could be wrong.

I think you could scrap the whole program, send guys to the local FBO for 30 hours of straight and level flight and take-offs and landings, and still get very close to the same result. Some will do well in UPT, some will wash.

Anyone can fly a single engine piston within 30 hours of instruction. Not everyone can pull G's, do acro, fly form and deal with 12 tweets in the pattern at once. You're not going to screen for that at IFS.

 

[frog_flyer]

I'm gonna back up Albie on this one. I've heard that they try to put the haze on you pretty well to see how you can handle pressure.

Like I said earlier, I'll just happy to get paid for the weeks I'll be there and to get the flight time.


Speaking of weeding "one guy out," whatever happened to the guy that crashed the diamond a few months ago?

 

[SIG600]

You may have dumped plenty, but your sortie was still fulfilling some type of purpose. You've missed my point completely.

Launch off the front end of the boat at night, turn downwind while dumping 8K #'s of gas. Land. Total flight time, 0.2. That just ONE story, from just one dude.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

FLAPs (F'ing Light Airplane Pilot, incase you are wondering) do well in UPT in general, especially during the T-37/T-6 phase. I haven't seen a single one do poorly in UPT but I have heard of stories of ex-commuter pilots washing out; maybe just a scare tactic. I'm guessing it must have been due to attitude.
I tend to believe that more hours and ratings, the better odds of doing well in UPT. I had to go through the flight screening program back in the day, even with a few hundred hours with an instrument ticket and I thought it was a waste of government $$$. I suppose they were just checking my attitude. Having been a student and a tweet IP myself, UPT is one place to be a yesman. Just smile and fly using "their technique". Just don't be afraid to ask for an IP change if he/she is a knob.

 

[Twasilew]

Two months ago I flew 18 hours over two days to move one patient who was ambulatory. I think he had a broken leg. And no, he wasn't coming back from the war or anything like that. Grand total.....about 180,000 pounds of fuel. Estimated cost...around $150,000 maybe.

I kind of thought WTF? but at the same time, I was burning the gas so I guess I didn't care as much.

It's amazing how much is wasted in this business.

BTW, on your .2, I'm sure you logged at least a night t/o and trap. That's worth something, and I imagine that type of work requires practice and repetition. I wouldn't call it a worthless sortie at all.

Back on topic, I'd say IFS is good for someone with no flying time at all, but pointless for anyone with over 40 hours in a Cessna.

 

[Birdstrike]

But this is also a way to find how a person handles a standup, deals with being part of a class, and takes instruction from others.

Appreciate that perspective. I have a son at ASBC now who reports to Pueblo in April. I'm forwarding this string. Think I'm more excited about seeing him go through than I was about going my route.

 

[SIG600]

FLAPs (F'ing Light Airplane Pilot, incase you are wondering) do well in UPT in general, especially during the T-37/T-6 phase. I haven't seen a single one do poorly in UPT but I have heard of stories of ex-commuter pilots washing out; maybe just a scare tactic. I'm guessing it must have been due to attitude.
I tend to believe that more hours and ratings, the better odds of doing well in UPT. I had to go through the flight screening program back in the day, even with a few hundred hours with an instrument ticket and I thought it was a waste of government $$$. I suppose they were just checking my attitude. Having been a student and a tweet IP myself, UPT is one place to be a yesman. Just smile and fly using "their technique". Just don't be afraid to ask for an IP change if he/she is a knob.

When I went through T-34 land, there was a guy I went to school with going through at the same time. Comm/MEL/IA etc with about 500 hours. Did TERRIBLE in T-34's, selected Helos, then attrited all together. Blew my mind.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

IMHO, the more flying experience and ratings that one has before attending military flying training, the better they are going to do, especially during the T-34/T-37/T-6 phase. In my UPT class, most everyone was on the same playing field by the time we hit T-38s. You are right.... there are always exceptions. What it comes down to is this, again IMHO. You either have it or you just don't. Some catch on quick, some a little slower, and a few never catch on. I think that most everyone can catch on eventually but the military is on a strict budget and a timeline, so if you don't cut the mustard then you are SOL. And unfortunately, some people just do not belong flying an airplane. I even see this in the airline world.
I'll leave it at this. The guys/gals who finish high in UPT, again IMHO, are either good sticks or they are kiss as$es/yesmen (in which case the military tends to attract a whole lot of). The best sticks do not always finish in the top of the class. It's a dog eat dog world out there.