Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

UAL wins temporary injunction against pilots

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
If we want the RLA changed we need to put our money out there... ALPA-PAC gets about 14% of all ALPA pilots contributing... it is not that you need to contribute allot...just something.... In addition 14% is a very small minority... what that says to congressmen is that pilots really don't care.... that the status quo for pilots is just fine...

You can bet the corporati's are dumping lots of money into PAC's to ensure the RLA stays in their favor....

And where did these companies get their PAC money? Oh yeah, from the pilots who generate the company revenue and then they turn around and screw those very pilots....
 
stlflyguy said:
The carrier said that cost it about $8 million in lost revenue and $3.9 million in operating profit.
Click to expand...

Great news!

Move over SWA, UAL has a nearly 50 percent operating profit! The hard times are behind us now. It took a team of lawyers to figure it out, but UAL is a profit machine! Just think, if pilots didn't pick up open time, ALPA would bring UAL billions..... Shucks, just canceling 1 percent of its flights would bring UAL back to profitability.
 
ultrarunner said:
Ahh...sorry UALdriver, I should have read your post more carefully. I didn't mean to repeat it in my example.

Now, the chance of a modification to the RLA with a the Dem vs. Rep will remain to be seen. I am cautiously optimistic.

But make no mistake...unions are still going to have a rough road.

Think about it....today you've the the CEO's of the big 3 automakers begging for BILLIONS of dollars....at some point, someone is going to say..."ya know...if you release us from these "union" contracts" we'll be MUCH more competitive.

There is a reason the union guys are there too....

My money is not betting on the union over the next several years.
Click to expand...

I don't care about the repeat. I'm just in a bad mood today. Care to guess why? :)

I'm under no illusion that the RLA is going to go away because the Republicans are on the run for awhile. I just think, hope, and pray that it will be modified or modernized. After the results of this past election, there may be some hope. At the very least, we should get some favorable appointments!
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
If we want the RLA changed we need to put our money out there... ALPA-PAC gets about 14% of all ALPA pilots contributing... it is not that you need to contribute allot...just something.... In addition 14% is a very small minority... what that says to congressmen is that pilots really don't care.... that the status quo for pilots is just fine...

You can bet the corporati's are dumping lots of money into PAC's to ensure the RLA stays in their favor....

And where did these companies get their PAC money? Oh yeah, from the pilots who generate the company revenue and then they turn around and screw those very pilots....
Click to expand...


So you mean to say after ALPA gets around $55 Million dollars a year in dues, it still needs to have a "bake sale" to really be effective?

Maybe Prater is taking in more than the half a million a year everybody thought?

Quit running a union like a business and fight the RLA like a real union will make the difference!
 
Rez O. Lewshun said:
If we want the RLA changed we need to put our money out there... ALPA-PAC gets about 14% of all ALPA pilots contributing... it is not that you need to contribute allot...just something.... In addition 14% is a very small minority... what that says to congressmen is that pilots really don't care.... that the status quo for pilots is just fine...

You can bet the corporati's are dumping lots of money into PAC's to ensure the RLA stays in their favor....

And where did these companies get their PAC money? Oh yeah, from the pilots who generate the company revenue and then they turn around and screw those very pilots....
Click to expand...

It's amazing to me the rationale pilots use not to contribute to a PAC like the ALPA-PAC.

I mean, look at the ATA (Air Transport Association). It's a very influential body in Congress that exists to represent the interests of airlines (read: not necessarily pilots' interests, airline interests). The ATA has members whose CEO's are some of the most egotistical people on the planet. Some of these CEO's in the present and the past can't/couldn't even stand each other. Yet they are all smart enough to realize how valuable the influence the ATA has in Washington. Despite the MANY failings that the ATA has had in the past (crack open Air Transport World or Aviation Week and Space Technology for examples), all of these airlines and their respective CEO's are not DUMB ENOUGH to not be members. They all have agendas that need to be pushed forward, and you can bet the ATA members make sure the resources are in place to have their voice heard on any issue affecting THEIR airline industry.

U.S. airline pilots however..........
 
ualdriver said:
It's amazing to me the rationale pilots use not to contribute to a PAC like the ALPA-PAC.

I mean, look at the ATA (Air Transport Association). It's a very influential body in Congress that exists to represent the interests of airlines (read: not necessarily pilots' interests, airline interests). The ATA has members whose CEO's are some of the most egotistical people on the planet. Some of these CEO's in the present and the past can't/couldn't even stand each other. Yet they are all smart enough to realize how valuable the influence the ATA has in Washington. Despite the MANY failings that the ATA has had in the past (crack open Air Transport World or Aviation Week and Space Technology for examples), all of these airlines and their respective CEO's are not DUMB ENOUGH to not be members. They all have agendas that need to be pushed forward, and you can bet the ATA members make sure the resources are in place to have their voice heard on any issue affecting THEIR airline industry.

U.S. airline pilots however..........
Click to expand...


My point is that ALPA is run too much like a business and not a union with balls. ALPA is too afraid of getting fined, because they are a business.

The RLA has been the bane of Organized labor since it's inception, ALPA's made zero headway and admittedly can't (without a little more cash).

Every cent should be torwards fighting the RLA.

Until then ALPA is nothing more than a fun club with a glossy magazine.
 
I just don't care anymore....fkkkk.....u.....domd....mf......tilton...u r sukn up the breath a squirl could be usn.....PLS.....DY.....SNNN...U....DMB....MF....FAT.....BTCH!
 
Freight Dog said:
Unfair? Why of course!

Bankruptcy laws are unfairly stacked against labor too. Only in America can a company go bankrupt, employees take massive paycuts and CEO's and management get massive bonuses at the same time.

If ALPA wants to change anything, it will have to resort to revolutionary measures. Yes, it means a wildcat strike. It means walking off the job, and telling the lawmakers, judges, the president of the USA, and everyone else - BITE ME! Address our issues, and we'll get back to work.

It will take drastic actions, and ALPA is unwilling to take them. Oh well... maybe they'll be able to get enough PAC money to overcome the management lobbyists. :)
Click to expand...

I wonder how much bonus money will be spread around.
 
Last edited:
CFIT said:
My point is that ALPA is run too much like a business and not a union with balls.

Until then ALPA is nothing more than a fun club with a glossy magazine.
Click to expand...

Sadly, Judge Lefkow just handed UA ALPA their balls in a paper bag.

I wouldn't characterize ALPA as being "a fun club." That would be the Shriners. ;)

SCR
 
Whataburger said:
Do you see a trend with this and age 65?
Click to expand...


Yeah-I saw it.


I also saw Undaunted all alone on his HNL layovers because NONE of us wanted anything to do with him!
 
Freight Dog said:
Unfair? Why of course!

Bankruptcy laws are unfairly stacked against labor too. Only in America can a company go bankrupt, employees take massive paycuts and CEO's and management get massive bonuses at the same time.
Click to expand...

When the law becomes despotic we are not beholden to it. It is our duty to break the law.
 
D-Bo said:
NO ONE named and NO ONE within ALPA pushed for any sickout.
Click to expand...

CHICAGO, Nov. 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- A federal court granted
> United Airlines' motion for a preliminary injunction against the
> Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) and four individual pilots,
> putting a halt to a deliberate, organized and unlawful campaign of
> sick leave abuse, pilot intimidation and other actions that
> resulted in the cancellation of hundreds of flights, inconvenienced
> thousands of customers and cost United millions of dollars in lost
> revenues.

I didnt write the press release but it seems to point the finger at 4 pilots.
 
Raoul Duke said:
CHICAGO, Nov. 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- A federal court granted
> United Airlines' motion for a preliminary injunction against the
> Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) and four individual pilots,
> putting a halt to a deliberate, organized and unlawful campaign of
> sick leave abuse, pilot intimidation and other actions that
> resulted in the cancellation of hundreds of flights, inconvenienced
> thousands of customers and cost United millions of dollars in lost
> revenues.

I didnt write the press release but it seems to point the finger at 4 pilots.
Click to expand...

And I'm telling you that UAL won on lies and huge insinuations.
 
Last edited:
D-Bo said:
And I'm telling you that UAL won on lies and huge insinuations.
Click to expand...

I just read the judge's opinion (all 85 pages of it). If UAL won on lies and insinuations, ALPA let them win by not putting on a strong defense. The judge makes 4 or 5 references to ALPA not putting on a witness to counter evidence put on by UAL. The Judge also pointed out all of the inconsistencies in the UAL ALPA IRC Committee members testimony. The Judge more or less accuses them of telling lies in depositions.

Like it or not, we are all to often our worst enemies - mob mentality in which the loudest opinion wins without regard to what is the smartest long term strategy. This decision is not just bad for UAL pilots. It is a very bad for all pilots at all carriers.
 
Raoul Duke said:
I just read the judge's opinion (all 85 pages of it). If UAL won on lies and insinuations, ALPA let them win by not putting on a strong defense. The judge makes 4 or 5 references to ALPA not putting on a witness to counter evidence put on by UAL. The Judge also pointed out all of the inconsistencies in the UAL ALPA IRC Committee members testimony. The Judge more or less accuses them of telling lies in depositions.

Like it or not, we are all to often our worst enemies - mob mentality in which the loudest opinion wins without regard to what is the smartest long term strategy. This decision is not just bad for UAL pilots. It is a very bad for all pilots at all carriers.
Click to expand...

The questions were asked and answered in the depositions. The judge focused on the question that were truly not of consequence. The truth was told in the depositions. The judge chose to ignore all the truths along with the inacuracies on UAL side. Take whatever side you want but I'm telling you that the story you read in the decision is not the true story. The decision is based on fiction.
 
Last edited:
Round 1...UAL...

But there will be another round...promise you that. Try dealing with all the unions contracts expiring at once (end of 2009) and Obama in the White House...Do you think we will allow more than a 6 month discussion on Sec 6 without a request for release from mediation....I don't.
 
I know a lot of guys that were present during the Trial. I was told that ALPA put up a GREAT fight and the company Lawyers were really bad. Looks like that was not so true, or the Judge didn't care?

This is BAD for all of us! United or whoever!
 
I cannot help but imagine what an ounce of prevention from the ual communications committee could have done to prevent this.
I observe that the mec and the comm. committee were silent as the summer approached.

All they had to do was send out a few memos and emails, and bulletin board posts, stating the need to observe the rla and warning of even talk of individual or group action. And, remember, anything said on cell phones, text messages, and internet boards can be used against you.

The real answer, however, is amending the rla in our favor. If that cannot be done, then we all need to think about what other groups have done in the past to effect change.....
 
CFIT said:
So you mean to say after ALPA gets around $55 Million dollars a year in dues, it still needs to have a "bake sale" to really be effective?

Maybe Prater is taking in more than the half a million a year everybody thought?

Quit running a union like a business and fight the RLA like a real union will make the difference!
Click to expand...


This above post shows your lack of understanding...

Unions are prohibited by law to use dues money for PAC contributions....
 
ualdriver said:
I don't care about the repeat. I'm just in a bad mood today. Care to guess why? :)

I'm under no illusion that the RLA is going to go away because the Republicans are on the run for awhile. I just think, hope, and pray that it will be modified or modernized. After the results of this past election, there may be some hope. At the very least, we should get some favorable appointments!
Click to expand...


Judge Joan Lefkow is a Clinton Appointee and Democrat!!

The Pig.
 
CaptJax said:
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/travelers_check/archives/2008/11/united_v_pilots.html
Click to expand...

God almighty. That whole thread of comments after the posted article make me want to retch. The general public has no freaking idea what we collectively go through.

Sadly, we are partially to blame. How many times in our past have we told someone "yeah, I'm working 90 hours this month" only for them to misconstrue what we just said. How about we tell them we work THREE to FOUR times that much--time away from home. Suddenly, their 40 hour work week isn't too bad.

More examples of us being our own worst enemy: Our PA's that say "the computer says we'll be landing on time." I know it might be semantics, but we all need to quit making it sound like we're just watching the country store eating our fabulous first class meal with the autopilot on until after we land. IMO comments like this, however slight, add up in the general public's eye, eroding our profession as skilled workers. We're not just autopilot babysitters, and our FMS does not fly the plane--WE DO.

Unless you're one of the SJS chumps living in your parents basement, we won't "fly for free" or "fly for food." I WISH I was paid anywhere CLOSE to what my neighbors and non-industry friends THINK I get paid. F*ck!

SCR
 
Last edited:
Rez O. Lewshun said:
This above post shows your lack of understanding...

Unions are prohibited by law to use dues money for PAC contributions....
Click to expand...


I think it shows your lack of understanding of what a union should be, that is on the offense and not defense.

If managment throws a hit, respond in kind.

If ALPA wasn't so rich and so well funded it could afford "a good old fashioned work action".

Rez, your very own words.........


It doesn't have to be separate to beat down the RLA. (funding that is) Prater is still way over payed)
 
Last edited:

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top Bottom