NW/DL (and ultimately affecting ALL of us): The Flaw With "Career Expectations"

[Voice Of Reason]

Again... it's all pops and whistles over here. What are you talking about? Are you referencing the DL proposed list?

No.
I don't require your services, thanks.
Carry on.

 

[Gunfighter]

If you hold the same relative percentage after the integration that you held before the seniority integration, then your QOL and bidding abilities will not be affected. If you're trying to get anything more than what you already have, you are contributing to the "me first" attitude that's accelerating the downward spiral of the piloting profession.

Straight relative seniority will hurt the QOL for Delta pilots, because at the bottom end they are exposed to the DC-9 and less desirable bases.

I fully agree that neither group should gain or lose in the areas of QOL (pay, schedule, base and equipment, etc.). Straight relative seniority will skew the QOL heavily in favor of the NWA group and would be a huge win for them.

 

[jetflier]

gENERAL, We slowed down hiring so that our "big thing" could fit into the little hole Delta made for us.

Delta kept expanding to keep the costs on the DAL side of the balance sheet, so that the NWA investors get a reasonable return on the twenty or so NWA subsidiaries. Of course this is just MHO, I satyed in a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Well said. Unfortunately our brothers see NWA as a pinata they just busted open and they are going for the big grab.

You mean the one that almost immeadiately allows a reserve DC-9 f/o to go into a line holder widebody f/o position?
You are dilusional!

Spot on analogy...that's how it looks from the outside as well.

So are you!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

You mean the one that almost immeadiately allows a reserve DC-9 f/o to go into a line holder widebody f/o position?
You are dilusional!



So are you!

Huh? Sorry, I don't speak monkey...
Carry on.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Huh? Sorry, I don't speak monkey...
Carry on.

No but you do speak very good retarded.

 

[poppi]

sound more like
Voice of an Idiot

 

[Phrogs4ever]

Straight relative seniority will hurt the QOL for Delta pilots, because at the bottom end they are exposed to the DC-9 and less desirable bases.

I fully agree that neither group should gain or lose in the areas of QOL (pay, schedule, base and equipment, etc.). Straight relative seniority will skew the QOL heavily in favor of the NWA group and would be a huge win for them.

Base fences and no forced displacements. If noone gets bumped out of a seat or base then noone gets exposed to anything they don't choose to.

 

[General Lee]

gENERAL, We slowed down hiring so that our "big thing" could fit into the little hole Delta made for us.

Delta kept expanding to keep the costs on the DAL side of the balance sheet, so that the NWA investors get a reasonable return on the twenty or so NWA subsidiaries. Of course this is just MHO, I satyed in a Holiday Inn last night.

Oh come on now. We hired a bunch because we were expanding, and we had just gotten 17 757ERs from AA (ex TWA birds). That is why we had so many newhires on the 757/767ER---we just got a bunch of them at once, and expanded a lot at JFK. We also received a few 777s, and some 737-700s. This is why we restarted hiring. You guys had some attrition, but I don't remember any new chunks of airplanes you received. Do you? We had to have 600 or more pilots, quick. You also started returning more airplanes than we did (you gave back 10 757s--some to Fedex, and some A319s, along with some DC9s). We also gave back some planes (some MD88s, a few 757s, and a few 767ERs I believe), but not as many as you did.

The only new orders you have had for awhile now are the 787s, and they still may not come. We shall see I guess. And come on, you are now a Delta pilot---no more Holiday Inn Express nights. You should upgrade to the Red Roof Inn!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Straight relative seniority will hurt the QOL for Delta pilots, because at the bottom end they are exposed to the DC-9 and less desirable bases.

I fully agree that neither group should gain or lose in the areas of QOL (pay, schedule, base and equipment, etc.). Straight relative seniority will skew the QOL heavily in favor of the NWA group and would be a huge win for them.

That is why we put the bottom 400 all NWA. Those guys probably couldn't hold many widebody seats (at least not A330 and up), and the associated pay raise. Talk about a windfall. Some DC9 guy gets an initial raise today, and then gets an additional 5% on Jan 1st, and then bids 767 FO and gets another huge raise. Your bottom 400 may be able to barely hold your 757, but nothing higher. We have guys that came back from furlough and are MD88 Captains, making a lot more than your DC9 Captains that were not furloughed. We have 3 or 4 777 FOs that were furloughed too. All in all, we have a lot more widebodies that pay a lot more than your planes, and you have a frozen pension for your top guys. That has to be looked at for the SLI.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Base fences and no forced displacements. If noone gets bumped out of a seat or base then noone gets exposed to anything they don't choose to.

What happens when they move the A330s out of SEA, our 767ERs into SEA, the MD90s go to MSP, and some A320s go to SLC, etc etc...? I think a lot of planes are going to move around from base to base. Until the SOC, nobody will move from one fleet (NWA and DL) to the other, so when they move the planes from base to base, they will be open initially to the guys that were flying those planes initially. After the SOC and when any fences go down, then it will be open to everyone I suppose.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[another cfii]

gENERAL, We slowed down hiring so that our "big thing" could fit into the little hole Delta made for us.

Delta kept expanding to keep the costs on the DAL side of the balance sheet, so that the NWA investors get a reasonable return on the twenty or so NWA subsidiaries. Of course this is just MHO, I satyed in a Holiday Inn last night.

FWIW, when I interviewed with NWA last Fall 07, HR told me hiring was for mostly retirement, negligible growth... The merger was only rumor back then, no official channel was opened then.

 

[number11]

hey 01! Fence all the DC9 guys off your heavy 767ER's, but, no way in hell there should be 400 NWA guys on the bottum of the list! Maybe you will get your wish! You can have the Xtra 10 g's! But in 15 years these NWA guys want the opportunity to bid and hold what they deserve!

 

[General Lee]

hey 01! Fence all the DC9 guys off your heavy 767ER's, but, no way in hell there should be 400 NWA guys on the bottum of the list! Maybe you will get your wish! You can have the Xtra 10 g's! But in 15 years these NWA guys want the opportunity to bid and hold what they deserve!

There is no doubt they will eventually get to bid and hold what they want, but you are bringing 63 DC9s to the table, and 12 or 13 747-200Fs. Some of those are on the extinction list. If there is a possibilty that some of those planes will go away soon, then "carreer expectations" dictate those pilots have a chance of furlough, and should be at the bottom. I don't think they would get furloughed, since we on the DL side are still getting new planes, but your guy Stevens kinda admitted on the stand that he had heard up to a possible 350 furloughs. I hope nobody gets furloughed, and Ed Bastain said all frontline employees would be okay. But, that was a known problem by your MEC.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[number11]

01! that is my point! Lets say they do decide to get rid of the 747-200's along with some DC-9's! The fences would protect the delta guys! Even though if they are treating this merger as equals that is complete Bull$hit!The new Delta's bussiness plan is totally different than NWA's stand alone! Look at the end of the day, I don't expext to be in the right seat or left seat of any of your aircraft ahead of my relative senority(If that only holds the DC9 than fine). Now, I do expect the opportunity to be the the right or left seat of an NWA heavy before any Delta pilot junior to me!