Frontier closing doors this week?

[jmreii]

An operating profit doesn't mean anything if your non-operating expenses are higher.

You are absolutely right, I guess people do not take financial classes seriously enough to understand that profit means nothing if your expenses are killing you.
People need to take financial classes and they need to be mandatory with 90% passing or you have to repeat!

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

I hope you guys pull through ok. I have been hosed this year and have written the place off for me.(Midwest) Just hope our idiot leaders did'nt start a trend and F9 announces that you will be down to Nine airplanes and Lynx is getting the rest. I hope your contract is better than ours. Good luck everyone.

 

[flyboyzz1]

I dunno, we are loaning 15 mil (I think... ) to Midwest Airlines. I'm not sure we can spare another square. Honestly, it's kind of ironic. We take AA, DAL, CAL, UAL, and USAirways' money and give it to the LLCs and Nationals. That makes us kinda like Robin Hood! :beer:

Yep just like Robin Hood...except you take from what was once the rich kingdoms and give to the poor kingdoms all while you steal, rape, and murder the poor kings servants.

 

[AAflyer]

Yep just like Robin Hood...except you take from what was once the rich kingdoms and give to the poor kingdoms all while you steal, rape, and murder the poor kings servants.

Thats kinda funny...... a little true.. but kinda funny.

AA

 

[StaySeated]

If you did talk with a fellow F9 pilot and he did state what you posted, then he unfortunately has no idea what he is talking about.

The teamsters are currently involved in an 1113c motion. The judge is allowing both sides to present their cases, and after Oct. 3 he will make a decision. He has 30 days to consider the information provided, so there will be no decision made this week regarding any of the employee groups represented by the teamsters.

The pilots are currently voting on an extension of the "interim" cuts while the union continues to negotiate possible permanent restructuring to the CBA. The company has not filed an 1113 against FAPA yet, so the judge can't touch the pilot contract, yet.

The extension vote will close on the 10th, so there will be no decision on that aspect of the concession this week either.

In summary, there will be no decisions this week on any contracts or concessions.

With that being said, we can still close our doors at any time. We are operating within Ch. 11, we are losing money every month, and the potential for another white knight stepping up and dumping their capital into a bottomless pit known as "the airlines" decreases everyday.

But then again, this is aviation and stranger things have happened.

Last note, I see SWA guys ALL the time on the jumpseat, and they are all great. Please do not say something stupid about another pilot group and make us all look bad. If you are one of those guys that flips off every SWA 737 as they fly by then I pity you. We are in this mess because of several idiotic management decisions made between 2003-2008. Potter, Tate, et al had very little competition, cheap leases, cheap fuel, and they still managed to lose money while every other airline on the planet was posting record profits.

 

[Max Powers]

In bankruptcy court near the end game it will always be:.........We are going to shut down unless you give us X and Z. No one knows how true this is but when you negotiate with Unions and Judge lots of posturing is going to be involved.

Good luck f9 guys and gals

 

[fool737700]

If you did talk with a fellow F9 pilot and he did state what you posted, then he unfortunately has no idea what he is talking about.

The teamsters are currently involved in an 1113c motion. The judge is allowing both sides to present their cases, and after Oct. 3 he will make a decision. He has 30 days to consider the information provided, so there will be no decision made this week regarding any of the employee groups represented by the teamsters.

The pilots are currently voting on an extension of the "interim" cuts while the union continues to negotiate possible permanent restructuring to the CBA. The company has not filed an 1113 against FAPA yet, so the judge can't touch the pilot contract, yet.

The extension vote will close on the 10th, so there will be no decision on that aspect of the concession this week either.

In summary, there will be no decisions this week on any contracts or concessions.

With that being said, we can still close our doors at any time. We are operating within Ch. 11, we are losing money every month, and the potential for another white knight stepping up and dumping their capital into a bottomless pit known as "the airlines" decreases everyday.

But then again, this is aviation and stranger things have happened.

Last note, I see SWA guys ALL the time on the jumpseat, and they are all great. Please do not say something stupid about another pilot group and make us all look bad. If you are one of those guys that flips off every SWA 737 as they fly by then I pity you. We are in this mess because of several idiotic management decisions made between 2003-2008. Potter, Tate, et al had very little competition, cheap leases, cheap fuel, and they still managed to lose money while every other airline on the planet was posting record profits.

Finally! A a post that puts the blame where it needs to be. Southwest has NOTHING to do with F9's problems.

 

[CitationUltra]

I thought they just cancelled the Oct furloughs, and were making an operating profit the past two months?

Gotta call BS on this one.

They lost $5.6 million in August.

 

[sshrae]

They lost $5.6 million in August.

you're an idiot.

 

[waveflyer]

As cool as frontier is, the only reason we care at all as pilots is b/c of seniority and the fact that we start completely over at the bottom when changing companies.

oh-- and not a fan of republic- but they are a tool to get pilot wages lower and undermine the whole concept of seniority.
But it takes 51% of a major airline pilot group to create the market for them to compete in.
Stand strong on scope- and reign it back in.

If seniority is going to be played against us and bastardized by scope-- why don't we just get rid of it?

Good luck frontier-

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Yep just like Robin Hood...except you take from what was once the rich kingdoms and give to the poor kingdoms all while you steal, rape, and murder the poor kings servants.

Glad someone else caught on, This guy probably got hired there with 250 hours and think they are the greatest place in the world to work because they are growing and getting airplanes and upgrading and in actually that has all come at the expense of someone else's Job PERIOD! And you guys "Loaning" other companies money is such a joke, You're basically paying for Jobs, You give them money to get more flying, One day when you're a captain and still there wondering why you can't get hired anywhere because there is no where left to hire you, Maybe you'll figure it out BUT PROBABLY NOT. Some of these kids will never figure it out. You'll probably be excited because you are Senior making 75K a year and have 14 days off a month BUT that was never why anyone of us got involved in this business.

That 15million is probably only so you can get the 8+ airplanes "Mothballed" in PIT out and fly them for F9( which they are already painted for). Mark my words, this will end up like the Midwest deal...Park all the Airbus' except ? and contract all the flying to Republic! Good Luck F9 guys!

KBB

 

[flyboyzz1]

KY hope your not saying I'm the "this guy". While I do work at a regional I would gladly give up as much as I could right now to later reap the benefits of working at a major. It's sick how many of us regional pilots don't understand that the more flying that comes our way only makes this crap industry even worse.

 

[CitationUltra]

you're an idiot.

No, you're an idiot.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

I dunno, we are loaning 15 mil (I think... ) to Midwest Airlines. I'm not sure we can spare another square. Honestly, it's kind of ironic. We take AA, DAL, CAL, UAL, and USAirways' money and give it to the LLCs and Nationals. That makes us kinda like Robin Hood! :beer:

Making comments like this, Makes you sound like "This Guy", I worked at commuter for way to long, Saw jobs get shifted from Major to commuter, didn't think I would ever get out of there...Better knock some sense into your buddies, Especially "This Guy", He's the one who will be happy with previously mentioned Job (Sub)standards.
KBB

 

[TAWS]

NOTE:

The pilots at RAH do NOT make business decisions. I've flown with many guys that are still here after getting furloughed from majors.

Back to the original thread:

If you work at F9, beware of what will happen before you exit BK - BB doesn't invest in other companies because he is a nice guy. Good luck F9 crews.

 

[Monster Buck]

Glad someone else caught on, This guy probably got hired there with 250 hours and think they are the greatest place in the world to work because they are growing and getting airplanes and upgrading and in actually that has all come at the expense of someone else's Job PERIOD! And you guys "Loaning" other companies money is such a joke, You're basically paying for Jobs, You give them money to get more flying, One day when you're a captain and still there wondering why you can't get hired anywhere because there is no where left to hire you, Maybe you'll figure it out BUT PROBABLY NOT. Some of these kids will never figure it out. You'll probably be excited because you are Senior making 75K a year and have 14 days off a month BUT that was never why anyone of us got involved in this business.

That 15million is probably only so you can get the 8+ airplanes "Mothballed" in PIT out and fly them for F9( which they are already painted for). Mark my words, this will end up like the Midwest deal...Park all the Airbus' except ? and contract all the flying to Republic! Good Luck F9 guys!

KBB

I hear ya man, but be careful with the "you guys" with this attitude and the "regional guys", they are not one and the same. I flew with a senior guy lately who point blank told me how the regional guys don't get it and steal all this flying away and are only errroding the good jobs. 95 percent of the "regional guys" would love to fly bigger planes at the majors and get better contracts . Mostly just the very very senior "regional guys" and a few others in the ranks are "you guy" types.

The senior captain, air force guy who never flew anything civilian until the majors, I flew with didn't "Get it" just as much as a few of the regional guys don't get it. These guys get out of college and go to the regionals. Where else is there to go on the civilian side? Every time your regional grows 95 percent of "regional guys" take it with a grain of salt. They know that some could have gone to major growth and some is new smaller service. Either way its hard not to get excited about the growth even if some of that growth could have gone to a major that they MIGHT get hired at.
Sorry about the long wind but most all regional guys and gals do get it, there are always a few that don't and never will. Just be careful, from your tone one can see that you think 95 of the regional guys don't get it instead of 5%. Both regional and major guys have the 5% that don't get it. And not one pilot ever inked a deal to fly planes on any route. We call those people management. Keep the team, now more than ever we don't need the "you guys" we need the "we".:beer:

 

[Monster Buck]

Back to the Frontier guys and gals. Good luck, I hope it doesn't last long. I'm not going to say "burn it down" or anything to the like. I hate it when people say that crap. They just want to see your airline going away so they can get your flying. I will say though I hope you all do what it takes but get some snap backs built in so if they use this to grow in the future you get some of those rewards for your sacrifice and not management.

 

[AA717driver]

No, you're an idiot.

It's always tough to insult someone when you spell it wrong. TC

 

[Captain Morgan]

Making comments like this, Makes you sound like "This Guy", I worked at commuter for way to long, Saw jobs get shifted from Major to commuter, didn't think I would ever get out of there...Better knock some sense into your buddies, Especially "This Guy", He's the one who will be happy with previously mentioned Job (Sub)standards.
KBB

Take a look at my profile and ask youself again if I got hired on with 250 hours. Quite the contrary, this is my second regional airline. Before this I flew 135 single pilot freight, flew part 91 corporate, and 135 charter. I am just finishing up college now online with a family to provide for to boot. Don't presume I'm anything that your little mind conjurs up. My first post was sarcasm, and poked fun at the fact that we, "Republic" have become a bank and leasing company. If I had my way, I'd be flying at a regional most of my life because I love the type of flying. My arse get's number after 2-3 hours to tell you the truth. I enjoy flying into podunk airports like SCE, and CRW, and LBB. If I could have it my way, I would be doing this job in a turboprop powered by a Garrett TPE-331 and on a mainline seniority list. Unfortunately this isn't the way it worked out. I ask again, don't presume to know anything. We are all on the same team.

 

[ironspud]

Frontier Airlines announces three-day sale with fares as low as $49* each way

Fares listed are each way. Purchase is required by Oct. 2, 2008 for travel through Dec. 17, 2008.* To/from Denver: Akron $ 119 Albuquerque $ 49 Aspen $ 79 Atlanta $ 119 Austin $ 79 Billings $ 89 Boise $ 119 Bozeman $ 109 Chicago (MDW) $ 79 Colorado Springs $ 59 Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW) $ 89 Dayton $ 119 Detroit $ 139 Durango $ 89 El Paso $ 109 Fargo $ 119 Fort Lauderdale $ 129 Grand Junction $ 79 Houston (IAH) $ 79 Indianapolis $ 79 Kansas City $ 59 Las Vegas $ 68 Los Angeles $ 79 Milwaukee $ 119 Minneapolis/St. Paul $ 109 Nashville $ 89 New York (LGA) $ 139 Oklahoma City $ 59 Omaha $ 49 Orange County $ 79 Orlando $ 129 Philadelphia $ 119 Phoenix $ 69 Portland $ 79 Rapid City $ 94 Sacramento $ 79 Salt Lake City $ 49 San Antonio $ 79 San Diego $ 79 San Francisco $ 79 San Jose, Calif. $ 79 Seattle/Tacoma $ 79 Spokane $ 129 St. Louis $ 79 Tampa $ 129 Tucson $ 89 Washington, DC (DCA) $ 139 Wichita $ 89