Was Comair Strike a Success?

[B-J-J Fighter]

Do you think it was a success or not? Given the fact there are around 45 to 60 DCI carriers now was the CMR strike a good thing. They are smaller now and have taken pretty big concessions. Did they stick it to management???

 

[johnpeace]

I'm glad I don't work there.

 

[jdubya]

Absolutely.....if all other groups had the guts of that group the profession would be much better off.

Too much has happened and it is too far in the future to ask that question IMO.

 

[dooork]

It most definitely was a success......for a little bit.

 

[acarpe3448]

It most definitely was a success......for a little bit.

A success? Are you kidding me! The Comair strike was nothing short of a bunch of idiots that cost Delta a lot of money! They gained no significant gains to their contract. Comair pukes on here love to throw their shoulders back and state how important they are because they went on strike for 90 days! Big f-ing deal! Anyone can not go to work for 90 days! Anyone! The big question is what did they accomplish! I think if you look carefully you will find that the gains that were made were not significant, and fall far short of the pride they seem to be still pumped up on!

 

[Mike man]

They got big pay...but poor working rules.

 

[SSDD]

They won the battle, but lost the war. It opened Delta's eyes to the power of any one of their regionals, and they resolved to never let that happen again. Delta has 4 regionals, and we did not invade each other's territories: ASA in the south, Biz Ex in the northeast, Comair in the midwest, and Skywest in the west.

After the strike, we started flying into each other's hubs, and Delta started increasing the number of feeders.

 

[ASApuppy]

I don't think the strike cost Delta as much as many believe. What I remember is that at that time about 75% of the cities served by Comair, ASA served from ATL. During their strike, our load factor was near 100% for those cities. Back then, fuel was cheap, and we were profitable at 60% load factor. Increase that LF to 100% and cut a majority of your costs by eliminating the flights to CVG and then rerouting all your pax through ATL.

Yes, it cost Delta money. If it had cost what people claim, I don't think it would have gone longer than a week. Now, we all get to reap the benefits of Delta's revised "Supply Chain Management".

What we really need is to get out from under the RLA.

 

[imacdog]

A success? Are you kidding me! The Comair strike was nothing short of a bunch of idiots that cost Delta a lot of money! They gained no significant gains to their contract. Comair pukes on here love to throw their shoulders back and state how important they are because they went on strike for 90 days! Big f-ing deal! Anyone can not go to work for 90 days! Anyone! The big question is what did they accomplish! I think if you look carefully you will find that the gains that were made were not significant, and fall far short of the pride they seem to be still pumped up on!

Apparently your old contract was a dismal failure too because it cost Delta a lot of money - after all, you took how big of a pay cut? 50%, something like that, and gave away more scope? Ouch!

 

[johnboy99]

A success? Are you kidding me! The Comair strike was nothing short of a bunch of idiots that cost Delta a lot of money! They gained no significant gains to their contract. Comair pukes on here love to throw their shoulders back and state how important they are because they went on strike for 90 days! Big f-ing deal! Anyone can not go to work for 90 days! Anyone! The big question is what did they accomplish! I think if you look carefully you will find that the gains that were made were not significant, and fall far short of the pride they seem to be still pumped up on!

You are without a doubt an idiot's idiot. Delta cost Delta a lot of money due to poor decison making back in 2001. You have to say the Comair guys drew a line in the sand and stuck to what they believed in. In the short term it cost Delta a few hundred million and in the long term even today Comair is paying for it.

When have the pilots at Delta ever drew a line in the sand and said enough. Boy, you sure have protected your scope. How many more mainline pilots would be on your seniority list if you had stood up and said enough. Just take a look at concourse A&B in ATL. Sure are lots more RJ's parked at "mainline" gates than there used to be. Lets take a look at CVG this time next year, how many mainline planes will be parked at concourse A & B.

Even the Northwest guys kept their pension during bankruptcy. Why, because they have the balls you could only dream of having when you grow up. How's that pension working for you now at big D. Delta is still a great company, it is not the end all be all of aviation. History repeats itself and this merger will be no different. You will roll over like you have time and time again and give into management. You carpehead could take a lesson from the Comair guys. They have never bent over for management and taken table scraps while management ate the seven course meal.

 

[ohplease!]

A success? Are you kidding me! The Comair strike was nothing short of a bunch of idiots that cost Delta a lot of money! They gained no significant gains to their contract. Comair pukes on here love to throw their shoulders back and state how important they are because they went on strike for 90 days! Big f-ing deal! Anyone can not go to work for 90 days! Anyone! The big question is what did they accomplish! I think if you look carefully you will find that the gains that were made were not significant, and fall far short of the pride they seem to be still pumped up on!

apparently you can't......you guy's have bent over and lubed yourselves EVERY time you got backed into a corner....scope, retirement, benefits, QOL, yada yada........haha....dipsh!t.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Comair's strike was a complete failure. Look at where they are today. Pilots on furlough, losing airplanes/cities. Most of their senior guys there who have had problems with backgrounds and training are lifers there and have had a hold on that airline. Also having the rjdc didn't do them any good. They're in the position today because of the rjdc and poor leadership from their pilot ranks.

 

[ohplease!]

Comair's strike was a complete failure. Look at where they are today. Pilots on furlough, losing airplanes/cities. Most of their senior guys there who have had problems with backgrounds and training are lifers there and have had a hold on that airline. Also having the rjdc didn't do them any good. They're in the position today because of the rjdc and poor leadership from their pilot ranks.

not to mention a little help from Mesa/chataqua/Airshuttle/pinnacle/colgan....same thing for Masaba and Air Wisconsin and ExpressJet (all good regionals whose pilots held their ground only to be undercut).

 

[PuffDriver]

You are without a doubt an idiot's idiot. Delta cost Delta a lot of money due to poor decison making back in 2001. You have to say the Comair guys drew a line in the sand and stuck to what they believed in. In the short term it cost Delta a few hundred million and in the long term even today Comair is paying for it.

When have the pilots at Delta ever drew a line in the sand and said enough. Boy, you sure have protected your scope. How many more mainline pilots would be on your seniority list if you had stood up and said enough. Just take a look at concourse A&B in ATL. Sure are lots more RJ's parked at "mainline" gates than there used to be. Lets take a look at CVG this time next year, how many mainline planes will be parked at concourse A & B.

Even the Northwest guys kept their pension during bankruptcy. Why, because they have the balls you could only dream of having when you grow up. How's that pension working for you now at big D. Delta is still a great company, it is not the end all be all of aviation. History repeats itself and this merger will be no different. You will roll over like you have time and time again and give into management. You carpehead could take a lesson from the Comair guys. They have never bent over for management and taken table scraps while management ate the seven course meal.

Comair struck to get pretty much nothing more than what they had obtained pre-strike. Many of the strikers made more on strike benefits on the back of their fellow ALPA pilots than they did flying the line. That is pretty much the Comair mantra--better living through jumping off the backs of fellow ALPA pilots.

As for Delta pilots "rolling over" all the time, I beg to differ. NWA pilots kept their FROZEN pension--big difference from a pension---as they did not have the lump sum option that Delta pilots had. Therefore, there was not a large run on their pension bank during their BK--leaving it fatally underfunded. As it were, I ended up getting about 250K in a lump sum with over 2 decades to turn it into a retirement in addition to what will be 13% DC. None of which is subject to termination in BK. The NWA pilots will have to stare that in the eye until their dying day.

As for RJs parked in the A and B concourses, big deal. I think that it is great seeing as it is a pain in the a$$ to walk over to C and D concourses. The big question should be: How many of those A and B concourse airplanes in ATL and CVG are COMAIR airplanes? Or ASA for that matter? Basically it is the big, higher paying metal parked at them--few of which are Comair and ASA. Now we will have Compass and Mesaba in the mix. Oh dear.

I'm just sayin....

 

[Airline RC]

Was the Yugo a great car?

 

[regionaltard]

Any chance that the Comair strike would have a lasting effect disappeared with the concessionary contract ratified at Mesa shortly thereafter. Yeah, I know.....Bwaaaahhh!!....9/11....Bwaaahhh!! I think that Horizon managed to hold on to hold on to most of what they got after Comair signed, but the DCI feeding frenzy eliminated any gains the industry as a whole could have seen.

 

[Broke in CVG]

Was the Yugo a great car?

Yes. Well, it was great to use for other things other than transportation.

http://www.jtruck.net/misc/4x4cars/full/4x4yugo.jpg

http://learnsomethingnewtoday.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/yugo.jpg

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/lighter.jpg

http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/foosball.jpg

I actually had a friend that bought one and turned it into a dedicated track car. Gutted the car and installed a Honda Vtec engine, Moton Racing dampers, Eibach Racing springs and full roll cage. Car had 220 hp and weighed 1400 lbs.

 

[PCL_128]

I have the utmost respect for the CMR pilots that were willing to walk out and fight for a fair contract, but I still question whether the strike was truly a "success." I've never heard JC Lawson actually explain what significant gains were accomplished after those 89 days. From what I can tell, very little was gained. Yes, it was proven that the CMR pilots had the balls to stand up for themselves, but what actual contractual improvements were obtained during the strike? Very little, I believe.

 

[NOLEFAN]

The Conair strike was the coolest. We celebrate it every single leg practically on the 70. Then we bash delta and pat ourselves on the back while we watch every other DCI pilot move on to career success that evades the bottom 2/3rds of our glorious ALPA list. Horay Alpa... Where do I sign up for the next one?

 

[Propsync]

At the time, yes. Now, no. Delta might as well issue uniforms with targets on the backs for Comair crews. The excess of 50 seaters in a merged Delta is crazy. Somebody is going, I fear, and I have a feeling Delta will be more than happy to make an example out of Comair as repayment for striking in 2001. Not saying it's right, just feel like that is what will happen.

 

[PA44Jockey]

Comair's strike was a complete failure. Look at where they are today. Pilots on furlough, losing airplanes/cities. Most of their senior guys there who have had problems with backgrounds and training are lifers there and have had a hold on that airline. Also having the rjdc didn't do them any good. They're in the position today because of the rjdc and poor leadership from their pilot ranks.

So is it Comair's fault that everyone is furloughing, losing airplanes/cities?

 

[TWA Dude]

United's "Summer of Love" in 2000 was also a great victory for labor -- briefly. What does it all mean? Management has the upper hand and I don't see that changing any time soon. Sorry for the cynicism.

 

[dojetdriver]

They won the battle, but lost the war. It opened Delta's eyes to the power of any one of their regionals, and they resolved to never let that happen again. Delta has 4 regionals, and we did not invade each other's territories: ASA in the south, Biz Ex in the northeast, Comair in the midwest, and Skywest in the west.

BizEx was gone at that point. As far as "invading each others territories", it's not/wasn't the regional that have/had the say over who flies/flew where.

Management has the upper hand and I don't see that changing any time soon. Sorry for the cynicism.

There's a very thin (in any) line between cynicism and reality whenever airline management i discussed.

 

[Speedtape]

Do you think it was a success or not? Given the fact there are around 45 to 60 DCI carriers now was the CMR strike a good thing. They are smaller now and have taken pretty big concessions. Did they stick it to management???

Define success. Can success be fleeting?

 

[WWEfan]

I can't believe how many people jumped into this obvious attempt at flame. 15 pages minimum.

 

[Guam360]

Apparently your old contract was a dismal failure too because it cost Delta a lot of money - after all, you took how big of a pay cut? 50%, something like that, and gave away more scope? Ouch!

what has every major/legacy airline given back, 40%+ pay and work rules, ask UAL , AAL, USA, really get a grip, all airlines have suffered since 9-11

 

[Guam360]

A success? Are you kidding me! The Comair strike was nothing short of a bunch of idiots that cost Delta a lot of money! They gained no significant gains to their contract. Comair pukes on here love to throw their shoulders back and state how important they are because they went on strike for 90 days! Big f-ing deal! Anyone can not go to work for 90 days! Anyone! The big question is what did they accomplish! I think if you look carefully you will find that the gains that were made were not significant, and fall far short of the pride they seem to be still pumped up on!

you obviously were on the other side and gave NO support, the contract, although not perfect, as any contract ends up, increased salary, work rules, not a true rig, but improvement, retirement which did not even exist, their were many improvements, which none you are aware of, nor really care about. really, a work group like yours that has never been in a labor dispute, I am glad you guys are merging with NWA, maybe in your next few years there you may learn something from them.

the contract improved the working environment for many other regionals at that time. nothing stays the same around here, so it was good at the time, Air Wisky did well after as well as did Atlantic Coast.

it didn't hurt you, so why are you really in this conversation

 

[Guam360]

Comair struck to get pretty much nothing more than what they had obtained pre-strike. Many of the strikers made more on strike benefits on the back of their fellow ALPA pilots than they did flying the line. That is pretty much the Comair mantra--better living through jumping off the backs of fellow ALPA pilots.

what nerve, A strike "better living through jumping off the backs of fellow ALPA pilots."

this isn't what ALPA pilots like 20+year UAL guys, DHL, USA, NWA, UPS(IPA), had to say. On the contrary.

"Nothing more than what they had pre-strike" WHAT?
what an idiot, salary alone went from 12yr CA $69.00 to $112.00.
etc....

 

[CRJ puppy]

yes........

 

[PuffDriver]

what nerve, A strike "better living through jumping off the backs of fellow ALPA pilots."

this isn't what ALPA pilots like 20+year UAL guys, DHL, USA, NWA, UPS(IPA), had to say. On the contrary.

"Nothing more than what they had pre-strike" WHAT?
what an idiot, salary alone went from 12yr CA $69.00 to $112.00.
etc....

Those carriers did not jump off of the backs of other pilots with lawsuits. Additionally, there were many Comair pilots who actually got a pay raise via strike benefits. Why would they do anything but the "noble" cause when it was so lucrative.

As for the pay, we are talking about the STRIKE here, not the contract. Tell me, oh wise one, where were the negotiations before the strike and after the strike. I'll save you the research--pretty much the same place.

The STRIKE was a failure. The contractual negotiations up to that point were a large success.