NAS Airlines - Saudi Arabia

[Foxhound]

FoxHound:

What contract company is that with? I saw the terms of a position with Nasair through Flight Crew Solutions and it's not as good as the one you have described.

Thanks!

Most of the info I was given was from word of mouth and some was from bits and pieces on the forums. If it's wrong I'm sorry for forwarding bad information.

 

[CX880]

The mins are really exciting, 1000 total time to fly an Airbus or an EMB190. However what good is all that if you're dead? Watch the movie The Kingdom before you think about moving to Saudi Arabia.

 

[avbug]

Bear in mind that was just a movie...filmed near Phoenix, by the way.

 

[Flyer1015]

The mins are really exciting, 1000 total time to fly an Airbus or an EMB190. However what good is all that if you're dead? Watch the movie The Kingdom before you think about moving to Saudi Arabia.

GoJets scum is worried about others' well-being? I didn't see you so concerned when you took your GoJets job while screwng over fuloughed TSA iplots.

 

[Flyer1015]

The mins are really exciting, 1000 total time to fly an Airbus or an EMB190. However what good is all that if you're dead? Watch the movie The Kingdom before you think about moving to Saudi Arabia.

Yah, and only 500TT to fly a shiny CRJ-700 at your scumbag operation called GoJets!

 

[CX880]

GoJets scum is worried about others' well-being? I didn't see you so concerned when you took your GoJets job while screwng over fuloughed TSA iplots.

You're a dumbass scumbag lowly CRJ pilot who flys CRJ9 for shi!! wages and has no idea what you're talking about. Keep spewing the lies moron, no one was furloughed because of Gojet. And how does that screw over TSA pilots since they HAVE NOTHING to do with GJ and will never be able to fly GJ airplanes. Idiot.

 

[CX880]

Yah, and only 500TT to fly a shiny CRJ-700 at your scumbag operation called GoJets!

Try 20 year ALPA members, who your gay little airline is screwing out of a job.

 

[ERJERic]

Strongly considering taking this job. We all know the problems with Saudi in general, but what exactly is NAS Air doing that is giving them such a bad name especially on the PPRUNE forum? I need to make a decision very soon, so I'd like honest opinions.

Thank you

 

[avbug]

You're a dumbass scumbag lowly CRJ pilot who flys CRJ9 for shi!! wages and has no idea what you're talking about. Keep spewing the lies moron, no one was furloughed because of Gojet. And how does that screw over TSA pilots since they HAVE NOTHING to do with GJ and will never be able to fly GJ airplanes. Idiot.

Yah, and only 500TT to fly a shiny CRJ-700 at your scumbag operation called GoJets!

Gentlemen, if you're going to sound like 14 year olds, perhaps your discussion would best be taken back to the regional forum with the other high school students.

Professionals don't usually talk like teenagers...and you do. Let's grow up, shall we? You might try keeping on topic, too...this is a discussion about flying (and living) in Saudi Arabia.

Strongly considering taking this job. We all know the problems with Saudi in general, but what exactly is NAS Air doing that is giving them such a bad name especially on the PPRUNE forum? I need to make a decision very soon, so I'd like honest opinions.

Thank you

NAS is an umbrella company covering several entities. I interviewed for, and was offered a job with NJME, several years ago. I didn't take the job. I turned it down three times, in fact. NJME is part of NAS, though even Net Jets doesn't claim them. You're right that information about what goes on there is kept tight to the vest, and I prefer not to provide much except to say I strongly recommend you look elsewhere.

I worked for someone else while there, but worked around and interacted with the NAS people, as well as used some of their services. You might have low standards and find working there acceptable, but I think you, and most who give it a try, will be disappointed. I'm not referring to living there...that's another subject entirely. Living in country isn't entirely objectionable, although it is not and never will be safe. I'm referring to NAS specifically, and suggest that if there is no other job on the face of the earth, you reserve it for your last choice.

With respect to living there, I was fortunate to know and work with some excellent people, as well as make some good friends who remain there. My circumstances have changed somewhat, and were I single and able to be gone as extensively as I have in the past, I might consider working in the Kingdom again...but I wouldn't do it with NAS. I've turned down employment with several other operations there since, based soley on the merits of each.

When I interviewed for NJME, it took place at a well known sim facility. The staff was coordial and professional in the inteview itself, though when it came time for the sim, the DO acted as the sim handler...and he had no experience at all with the aircraft in type. It was a bit of a circus, and the interview lasted over 14 hours. One individual who crashed the simulator on his eval flight was offered a job. I was offered a job, but the pay was different for each person, and mine wasn't acceptable, nor were the terms that included a three year contract.

The job entailed 35 days on and 31 days off, with travel on the off days, their expense. They operated under Part 135 with N registered airplanes, but when pilots timed out they quit operating under Part 135 and went Part 91. They operated into places that US Citizens shouldn't operate, and said they would "try" to put Saudi pilots on those trips. "Try" wasn't the same as "will."

Pay and reimbursement were not acceptable and took too long. I was required to pay the trip to the interview and the hotel, then put in for reimbursement. I did, but it was about two and a half months before I got it back. Some reports among others there regarded the same with paychecks. Economy class travel. Several of the hotels used were bombed.

When at the interview, I met several pilots who were coming to the sim center for recurrent. When I approached them to ask them about the job, early in the morning when no one was around, they all turned their backs and said over their shoulder that they were afraid to talk about the job, and wouldn't discuss it.

I did a fair amount of reseach on NJME before the interview...and found less information on them than I had with a covert operation some years previously...the covert operation I came up with several hundred pages of notes including photographs, aircraft serial numbers, forward operating locations and staffing numbers and names..but couldn't get hardly a thing with NJME. That alone should tell you something. It's not a matter of privacy...what you can get is negative. Same for much of the rest of NAS.

When I went to work in the Kingdom I had plenty of opportunity to associate with NAS personnel, and never met anyone who was happy to be there. To be clear, when I say happy to be there, I don't mean Saudi Arabia...I mean NAS.

You do what you feel is best...but if that little voice is telling you to shop somewhere else, you should listen to it.

 

[tyuwerty]

In addition to what Avbug said. NAS is run separately from NJME, they have their own operating certificate and operations management. They have had 2 EMB's for awhile, both of which have been parked and not moved for over 2 months. Yesterday, I was in RUH and saw that one was finally out flying.

They were having a hard time getting their EMB manuals approved by the Saudi version of the FAA. It looks like they got the approval and are now moving forward.

The A320's have been operating for about the past year. Recently, they dumped a whole bunch of their domestic routes in order to focus on the more profitable international markets.

NAS is operated as part 121. The Saudi's have there own oversight (PCA), but have basically accepted the FAR's as the governing document.

 

[FirstMate]

You really shouldn't. Perhaps you haven't spent any appreciable time there, or lived there.

Thanks. Been living there for over a year now and am well aware of the risks/dangers of working and living in that part of the world. I can't live my life in constant fear or paranoia.

 

[FirstMate]

Sorry...not trying to be too much on the defensive, but I find it awfully rude when people scoff at other's difference of opinions, tastes, and even career moves. The choice I made was to better my family's life and to put some cash away so I wouldn't have to work for a regional airline till I'm a crippled old man. I would have never proposed the idea of moving my family to Saudi if I thought they would be in grave danger and live in paranoia for the duration of their stay (however long that may be). I'm not sure what the living arrangements are like at NAS? Or if having a family over there is feasible while working for NAS?

Like someone stated before, its not for everyone. I'm sure your exodus from there was for the better. Sure, I've had my moments of doubt, just like with any other job or situation, but this is my life now and its not so bad. Really.

 

[ERJERic]

Are there problems with getting paid by NAS? Meaning that the checks arrive on time and at the correct amount expected.

How do they handle rest issues? Are guys flying around fatigued a lot?

What do most expats do in KSA when not working? Sounds like going to the mall and dining out are pretty much all there is to do.

Just trying to find out specific reasons why NAS is not a good place to work.

 

[reepicheep]

Just trying to find out specific reasons why NAS is not a good place to work.

Good luck. The above post by avbug probably comes closest to providing useful information. The rest of the posts on here and on pprune offer only cryptic "don't do it" advice.

I too would like some helpful info....assuming you decide to take the plunge what is life actually going to be like? Schedules? Days off? Quality of accomodations? Relations with co-workers?

 

[ifly4u]

I noticed a few people have CRJ in their profiles. I thought they were looking for people who are typed and current in the A320/E190?

 

[tyuwerty]

For Captains, they will take non-typed guys with a lot of time. The only people I know of are ones with 7000+ total time and a ton of Jet PIC. Haven't heard of any non-typed CRJ only Capts being taken on.

For Fo's, I can't see them taking on any Fo's without EJET experience, it doesn't matter what their published mins are. There are just to many Saudi's with "wet" commercials. Yes, Saudi's with a fresh commercial and 300 hours regularly fly Ejet, Boeing and Airbus here.

There are always exceptions to the rules so don't let this deter anyone from applying if they really want to.

What do most expats do in KSA when not working? Sounds like going to the mall and dining out are pretty much all there is to do.

If you have enough days off, you travel. Bahrain, Dubai, Cairo and the resorts of Sharm El Shek are all a short hop away, less than 2 hrs. Europe is between 5-7 hours away and Asia around 7-8 hours or so.

I don't know about Riyadh, on the west coast of Saudi you have Expat only beaches, I think it is probably the same on the east. Bikinis for the girls, jet skis, sailing, diving, boating, horse back riding, etc. Too much heat in summer, you can't do anything for the worst 2 months except stay inside.

Life in the compounds is pretty relaxed, women drive, no abaya (black gown). Swimming, baseball, basketball, tennis, soccer, cricket and rec centers with ping pong, pool, weights, darts, bowling. Even though booze is illegal, you are not going to have a problem finding it if you want it. Just don't try and bring it through customs, you will most likely get caught smuggling. You risk 100 lashes and 30 days in jail, possible removal from the country.

I am with my family, I think it would be pretty hard being single and in a hotel all the time.

Lots to do for the family as long as they don't get stuck in a rut and never leave the house. Good private schools, Karate, swimming lesson, fencing and baseball for the kids. The women can work at schools and offices without a work permit, paid under the table in cash. The demand for native english speaking tutors is huge, no credentials required, they are paying to learn the American accent. $50-75 USD an hour to tutor rich Saudi Children.

With all that said, it is a very hard transition to make. If I wasn't here with my family and if they were not so adaptable to different experiences, I don't think I would have been able to stay here. I haven't met to many single guys that last very long. Commuting back and forth to the USA would be a killer.

 

[ERJERic]

Thank you everyone for the replies

 

[DoubtingThomas]

Thanks all for the info, especially avbug and tyuwerty... I too am very curious why everybody seems afraid to talk about their experiences in KSA... almost (at the risk of sounding over-dramatic) as if they are fearing some kind of retribution from someone or somewhere.

Tyuwerty, PM sent.

 

[avbug]

I don't think people are afraid to talk about their experience in the Kingdom. Just NAS.

Some people who work in that part of the world can't talk about their work...that's another matter entirely.

 

[Flyer1015]

You're a dumbass scumbag lowly CRJ pilot who flys CRJ9 for shi!! wages and has no idea what you're talking about. Keep spewing the lies moron, no one was furloughed because of Gojet. And how does that screw over TSA pilots since they HAVE NOTHING to do with GJ and will never be able to fly GJ airplanes. Idiot.

Oh please. You fly a CR7 for sh*t wages. Look at the GoJets thread (going 15+ pages), and you will see that EVERYONE agrees with me regarding GoJets... except you. And except other GoJets employees. Deny all you want, the facts are out there. You alter-ego pilot, your airline started off NON-UNION for the sole purpose of undercutting the union TSA pilot group. This has been hashed over and over again, and only YOU (and fellow GoJet members) are in denial. Go crawl back to your hole, scum.