OMG! ROFLMAO! "Management by TRUST" by Kenn Ricci

[Ultra Grump]

...because the BBJs were such big sellers, and the rest of the fleet is mostly all still so "new"

Relevance is apparently overrated in the VOR household.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Relevance is apparently overrated in the VOR household.

Would that, by chance, be the same relevance that causes you and NJW to turn every clearly titled thread into one about NJs?

 

[gunfyter]

VOR,

Who turned this thread to be about NJ?

 

[netjetwife]

... WORSE YET, the NJ's guys dumped IBT perhaps so we won't be the same union, so their BIGGER group will have no qualms about stapling the entire flops group to the bottom. .....

Get the facts straight. GF is right. This is the false accusation that I responded to. My husband is one of those who led the Independence movement and I know exactly why my family gave up (and are still giving) so much of our personal time to form an in-house union/association. It is for the reasons I explained and I find this absurdly paranoid suggestion insulting to the NJ pilotgroup who only wished to have complete control over their destiny and their money. Posters seeking to start ugly rumors shouldn't be surprised when those in the know set the record straight. NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

Get the facts straight. GF is right. This is the false accusation that I responded to. My husband is one of those who led the Independence movement and I know exactly why my family gave up (and are still giving) so much of our personal time to form an in-house union/association. It is for the reasons I explained and I find this absurdly paranoid suggestion insulting to the NJ pilotgroup who only wished to have complete control over their destiny and their money. Posters seeking to start ugly rumors shouldn't be surprised when those in the know set the record straight. NJW

She should know.. remember all that inside information that she has because the union doesn't have any kind of confidentiality rules with thier membership? ​

She is not a union member, she does not work for NJ, yet SHE is going to set the record straight. :laugh:​

 

[glasspilot]

B19, if the First Lady told me that the President was planning to invade some country in the next two weeks I'd believe her.

You can agree or disagree if NJW's husband should talk to her or not about union stuff, but the fact is he does. Right or wrong, he does.

So...as a result she has an opinion. She decides to post that opinion here. It's a free country. I do believe each and every pilot and poster like you know that and as such there is little conflict. My point is there is little deception going on. Hell, her name is NETJETWIFE. That says it all. She is very upfront about her position.

If you're mad at her husband for talking to her then maybe you could ask her nicely for her husbands cell number and you could call him and complain.

 

[netjetwife]

Glass, I post only general information which is available to NJ pilots and spouses who follow Union issues closely. I have signed a confidentiality agreement which I honor. If you'll notice, I don't break news here. I wait until the pilots discuss things first. I'm always upfront (sticking only to topics I can talk about) and I have a public reputation for being honest. Thanks for noticing...
NJW

 

[Galaxy]

To get back on track..

I don't care what books the guy writes. All we need from him is a quick negotiation to a industry standard contract and put everything in writing. Then the guy can sit in CGF and make cartoon for all I care.

Oh yea-and to keep up with the attitude of everything is about NJ.
I would like to thank again all the hard working NJ pilots for all the help we have received from you. We would not be anywhere close without your help.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19, if the First Lady told me that the President was planning to invade some country in the next two weeks I'd believe her.

You can agree or disagree if NJW's husband should talk to her or not about union stuff, but the fact is he does. Right or wrong, he does.

So...as a result she has an opinion. She decides to post that opinion here. It's a free country. I do believe each and every pilot and poster like you know that and as such there is little conflict. My point is there is little deception going on. Hell, her name is NETJETWIFE. That says it all. She is very upfront about her position.

If you're mad at her husband for talking to her then maybe you could ask her nicely for her husbands cell number and you could call him and complain.

I'll repeat myself again.

Is SHE the one that should be setting people straight as a non-employee or union member of Netjets?

All of her information is second hand, and it's clear that there is only one place it could be coming from.

When she posts those radical opinions, which of course she's entitled to, are they hers or her husbands?

I would think If I was a NJ union member, I'd be concerned a non-union member is "setting the record straight."

 

[netjetwife]

Galaxy, I'm sure your gracious thanks will be appreciated by all the NJ folks who read your post. Nicely done! When you guys have a worthy CBA in place, many of your frac peers will be cheering too. Pulling up the bar is the right thing to do. Kudos to the Options pilots! NJW

 

[Publishers]

My question is not are there additional pilots back, but, are there additional aircraft coming into the program and back on line. What marketing program has he come up with to compete with the fracs and with the quasi companies like XO?

 

[gunfyter]

I think I saw there were Embraer Orders. Maybe FLOPS will become the Embraer frac similar to CS and FLEX.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Is it possible to craft a scope that will survive through:
- a company that has a bigger (and anti-union) group of pilots acquires or is acquired by Flops?
- a company that has a bigger (DIFFERENT union) pilot group that acquires or is acquired by Flops (and may staple...what if THEY have an iron clad scope clause)?
-Flops selling off the operation in parts
-Flops turning the operation into something other than fractional (charter, lease, managed, new variation of operating not yet named that KR will again "invent")?
-Contract pilots flooding the operation
????
Just a few things to think about

BTW...How many pilots does XO Jet have? Anyone? Don't be surprised if it's a Flops2 started to again bust the union and eventually phase out the Flops name that's been sullied....I hear they're paid and treated pretty well...Sound familiar?

 

[Fozzy]

NJW is free to say what she wants, I have no problem with it.

Especially because she keeps pissing you off.

 

[FLSTCI]

Honest to God...

B19, if your and NJW's sexes were reversed, I'd conclude that you had the worst case of penis envy known to psychoanalysis. You've beat the whole "who is she to be talking?" thing to death. Give it a rest already.

 

[B19 Flyer]

NJW is free to say what she wants, I have no problem with it.

Especially because she keeps pissing you off.

I don't have a problem with it either.

She is perfectly free to write her selfish, greedy hypocritical, inexperienced and second hand knowledge coming from her union volunteer husband's rhetoric all she wants to. :laugh:

 

[Options_SLAVE]

I don't have a problem with it either.

She is perfectly free to write her selfish, greedy hypocritical, inexperienced and second hand knowledge coming from her union volunteer husband's rhetoric all she wants to. :laugh:

NJW has NEVER posted a selfish post. She is consistently pro-pilot and supportive of not only the Net Jets pilots but the flight options pilots.

You are the only one who consistently posts selfish statements and tries to blame management's piss poor leadership mistakes on the Union (and fail miserably).

If it wasn't for the abysmal leadership by FLOPs management the Union wouldn't even be there. No aviation company that I know of in the past 30 years was more deserving of getting a Union than FLOPS. If you lead as a tyrant, you will suffer a tyrant's fate and you will die by your own most trusted individuals. FLOPS is feeling that, now. (Where is Scheeringa?)

Babblyin' bob will probably be the next one to feel the axe. Good riddance to a scab. He's 2/3 out the door already and he knows it, since they packed his sh!t up out of that nice office he had and stuffed him in the sunken basement old simulator room, haha!

B19 can say what he wants on here too - his opinion means about as much to flight options pilots as a Joe Salata daily message (Message from... JOE SALATA.... "This is Joe Salata, Get your pens out"...BEEP! MESSAGE DELETED. Next Message...) or a Scheeringa weekly announcement (that no pilot listened to for years).

 

[B19 Flyer]

NJW has NEVER posted a selfish post.

It's all about being selfish. When the union is successful, she and her husband benefit because he gets paid by the union.

You forgot to address "greedy hypocritical, inexperienced and second hand knowledge coming from her union volunteer husband's rhetoric"

Most likely because you agree... it's true!!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Today, 23:29
This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list



What??? huh???
Why do you post the same thing over and over and over again? I KNOW you're "on (my) ignore list"! You don't have to say it 500 times a day! :smash: I get it, I get it...

...(too bad not many others do)

 

[Options_SLAVE]

It's all about being selfish. When the union is successful, she and her husband benefit because he gets paid by the union.

You forgot to address "greedy hypocritical, inexperienced and second hand knowledge coming from her union volunteer husband's rhetoric"

Most likely because you agree... it's true!!

Hmm. When you put it like that, I DO agree - she has the right to be selfish there though, doesn't she? Her husband's Union has ensured his payroll, life style, work rules and benefits. She enjoys her company fully-funded health care plan, again, thanks to the Union. She sees her husband has the highest-paying salary in fractional aviation, which is WAY above ALL commuters and many of the low-cost majors. She sees her husband 7 days at a time and at least 14 days a month or they are properly compensated if he works longer.

Her life style and their happiness, she owes to her husband's Union. The company he works for enjoys a symbiotic relationship with the Union that has done nothing but show growth, success, and profit since their contract was signed in 2005, and pilots and management together work hard to maximize the company's profits and ensures its future. Together.

So what's your selfish excuses? The selfishness YOU display toward flight options pilots and our management (which you say you have NOTHING to do with) does... what, exactly?

I'd like to see B19's "solution" to flight options' problem, and how the Union is not a part of that. I want to see how B19 thinks our pilot group would be better without the Union (because things were OH so good before the Union was voted in).

Come on, B19. Give me your best. Right now. Earn F&H's money they are paying you. Or, earn that salary if you really are BT like so many believe.

Show us all how the Union is bad and that you have another way for us. But bring your facts. My bet is, you will only polish and shine the horns that are on managements' head when you do so. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Hmm. When you put it like that, I DO agree - she has the right to be selfish there though, doesn't she? Her husband's Union has ensured his payroll, life style, work rules and benefits. She enjoys her company fully-funded health care plan, again, thanks to the Union. She sees her husband has the highest-paying salary in fractional aviation, which is WAY above ALL commuters and many of the low-cost majors. She sees her husband 7 days at a time and at least 14 days a month or they are properly compensated if he works longer.

Her life style and their happiness, she owes to her husband's Union. The company he works for enjoys a symbiotic relationship with the Union that has done nothing but show growth, success, and profit since their contract was signed in 2005, and pilots and management together work hard to maximize the company's profits and ensures its future. Together.

So what's your selfish excuses? The selfishness YOU display toward flight options pilots and our management (which you say you have NOTHING to do with) does... what, exactly?

I'd like to see B19's "solution" to flight options' problem, and how the Union is not a part of that. I want to see how B19 thinks our pilot group would be better without the Union (because things were OH so good before the Union was voted in).

Come on, B19. Give me your best. Right now. Earn F&H's money they are paying you. Or, earn that salary if you really are BT like so many believe.

Show us all how the Union is bad and that you have another way for us. But bring your facts. My bet is, you will only polish and shine the horns that are on managements' head when you do so. Put your money where your mouth is.

It's simple. Flight Options is screwed because of the union effort.

Pilots that didn't have the nuts or credentials to fly elsewhere decided to bring a union into a company that was and has been teetering on the edge for quite some time like it was going to fix something.

Instead, it's brought three years of turmoil, downsizing and a bunch of fired employees.

All said and done, even if there is a CBA, the pilots will be paid a little more, the work rules will be a little different and the owners will have to pay more.

The cash bucket will have less after the CBA than before, airplanes are still gonna break and pilots will continue to whine because the support staff doesn't get it done because the company can only afford to hire minimal staff because all the money goes to the pilots.

Yep, Flight Options is screwed and y'all ain't smart enough or don't have the credentials to bail out while the gettin' is good.

 

[dime line]

what a moron.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

He didn't answer any of my questions, did he?


The company is screwed, I agree, because their piss-poor management and harrassment of the pilots FORCED the pilots to unionize.

Why the hell should the pilots, who have all been there longer than just about anyone in management, be the ones to leave? The pilots are career employees. Management is not. Why the hell should we leave a good career and a good job when it isn't we that are the problem, it's the fact that management can do what they want to us without a contract? GET a contract, and that goes away.

Perhaps you should take your own advise, and if you don't like managing here, leave. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Net Jets' management got it - take care of the pilots and the pilots will take care of you. They are enjoying profits hand over fist, along with healthy relations with their unionized employees (which includes mechanics and I believe the flight attendants, and possibly even the dispatchers).

Flight Options refuses to take care of their pilots, so the pilots are NOT going to take care of them until that happens.

Management has the power to change that whenever they want. All they have to do is treat the pilots as they deserve to be treated; as the other pilots at the other fractionals are treated: Fairly.

B19 blames the Union on the company's problem, which is CLASSIC management style. They refuse to recognize that it is the managers' fault the union exists in the first place, always pointing their finger at everyone else instead of in the mirror.

Try again, B19. I know it's hard and pushes your reading comprehension skills, but RTFQ's. Stop BLAMING and start providing the solutions you purport to have - or do you not have any and are just bitching? But remember, bring your facts, or you'll look even more like an idiot.

 

[dime line]

Try again, B19. I know it's hard and pushes your reading comprehension skills, but RTFQ's. Stop BLAMING and start providing the solutions - or do you not have any? But remember, bring your facts, or you'll look even more like an idiot

Remember he is management, and he has no solutions that is somebody elses job.

 

[993_Pilot]

It's simple. Flight Options is screwed because of the union effort.

Pilots that didn't have the nuts or credentials to fly elsewhere decided to bring a union into a company that was and has been teetering on the edge for quite some time like it was going to fix something.

I have seen multiple management teams come here and attempt to manage the company. They seem to last an average of about 2 years. Some actually grew the company, and some shrunk it. Most made promises or had "visions" about the future, but none have delivered so far. Most of the Pilots at Options have more years invested in the company that most of management. Yes, we are trying to fix something because no one else has done it for us.

All said and done, even if there is a CBA, the pilots will be paid a little more, the work rules will be a little different and the owners will have to pay more.

Pricing our services a bit higher is one way, however, maybe you are failing to understand is that there are other ways to gain efficiency and increase your margin. If we are going to lead the "value proposition", according to Kenn, then maybe we should explore those other ways. Establishing a good working relationship with the front line employees would be a good start.

The cash bucket will have less after the CBA than before, airplanes are still gonna break and pilots will continue to whine because the support staff doesn't get it done because the company can only afford to hire minimal staff because all the money goes to the pilots.

Ha Ha... this is laughable.

Yep, Flight Options is screwed and y'all ain't smart enough or don't have the credentials to bail out while the gettin' is good.

And right here ladies an gentlemen, is where he shows his true agenda!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Wow, it's only been a YEAR and a couple months since this thread originated...seems like longer

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Funny, some IT people back in Baboo's homeland came up with this back in 2000:
"What is 'Management by Trust'?" http://www.itpeopleindia.com/20011231/management3.shtml

My personal favorite find