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"After Merger, Delta May Get U.S. Aid to Foil Unions"

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Voice Of Reason

Reading Is Fundamental !
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Posts
1,369
(side note: NW/DL Pilots as well, should keep their eyes on Mike Campbell (founding member of especially pilot hating union busting law firm Ford & Harrison http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=109308&highlight=Ford+&+Harrison ) ...he was put in as EVP of HR @ DL for a REASON when RA went over there to start the whole process. Don't be surprised when there is increased push for an "in house union")


"After Merger, Delta May Get U.S. Aid to Foil Unions

Posted on: Sunday, 17 August 2008, 1800 CDT
By John Hughes Bloomberg News
Delta Air Lines Inc. would find it easier to block union drives after its merger with Northwest Airlines Corp. under a U.S. labor agency's proposal, a flight attendants group said.
The National Mediation Board plan would bar one organizing tactic, submitting signature cards in favor of representation, and leave elections as the only option, Pat Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, said this week.
"It looks very suspicious that they are doing it now, because they are going to help Delta destroy collective bargaining rights," Friend said of the NMB in an interview.
The board is taking comments on its proposal as labor groups prepare to organize Delta, the third-largest U.S. carrier, once it buys Northwest later this year. Northwest's major work groups are all in unions while only pilots are represented at Delta, the least- unionized major U.S. airline.
The NMB, a Washington-based federal agency that helps resolve labor disputes, has never let workers use cards alone to gain union membership, unless management backs the effort, Chairman Read Van de Water said this week.
The proposal "is merely stating the practice of the agency for the past 20 years," Van de Water said. "The board has never let authorization cards be used for anything other than an election without carrier agreement."
Delta has no comment on the NMB plan, spokeswoman Betsy Talton said in an e-mail. Delta's all-stock acquisition of Northwest, based in Eagan, Minn., which was announced April 14, would create the world's largest airline.
Attendants at Atlanta-based Delta fell short in May in their second election in six years to join Friend's union. Only 40 percent of the 13,380 eligible attendants voted, and the turnout needed for certification was 50 percent plus one.
Northwest has about 8,500 attendants who are represented by the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA.
A second mediation board move also will stunt organizing, said Ed Wytkind, president of the AFL-CIO's transportation trades department. He cited the NMB plan to require that a union would need to represent "more than a substantial majority" of the combined work group in a merger to extend that status to non-union employees.
"This is a gift to the airline industry, and it's designed to make it much more difficult for workers to retain their collective- bargaining rights," Wytkind said in an interview.
Van de Water said the changes aren't prompted by Delta- Northwest, and the "substantial majority" language wouldn't affect that tie-up. No union besides the pilots would have even a small majority of the combined employee groups, she said.
"This is knee-jerk reaction," she said of union complaints about the proposals. "They think we're out to get them, when we simply wanted their comments and advice."
The board's proposal doesn't define "substantial majority." It now uses a standard of "not comparable" when extending union representation to a merged company with organized employees outnumbering those who aren't. That current standard is also undefined, Van de Water said.
The NMB will take feedback on the proposed changes to its representation manual until early September, and then decide whether to modify or implement them, Van de Water said. The manual provides guidance for NMB staff, labor groups and companies, and isn't binding on the board, she said.
House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman James Oberstar, a Minnesota Democrat, said he will "strongly consider" legislation to overhaul the board's authority over merger procedures unless the proposals are withdrawn.
Oberstar's comment came in a letter this month to the NMB that was also signed by Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., and Rep. George Miller, D-Calif.
Harry Hoglander, an NMB member, failed to persuade his two board colleagues to delay consideration of the controversial items until after the Delta merger, according to a letter he wrote this month to Wytkind.
"I believe that this ill-advised action will only strengthen the perception of bias and sow distrust and suspicion," Hoglander said in the letter released by Wytkind.
(c) 2008 Deseret News (Salt Lake City). Provided by ProQuest LLC. All rights Reserved.

Source: Deseret News (Salt Lake City)"
 
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Maybe it's because I just woke up, but I have no idea who's whining about what and there are too many acronyms to deal with.
 
This is about the push by big labor to get rid of the secret ballot for union drives and replace it with "signature cards" which would place considerably more public pressure on those who aren't keen on forming a union. Unions love lists, after all, and wouldn't be shy about publishing the names (or worse) of everyone who didn't send in their card.

How would you like to have your name on a "pseudo-scab" list easily "googled" for the rest of your working career floating around? Like retribution and labor pressure at work much?

It's clearly bad for big labor union drives.

Individual's rights to make up their minds in peace with a secret ballot might think their rights are more important.


 
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This is about the push by big labor to get rid of the secret ballot for union drives and replace it with "signature cards" which would place considerably more public pressure on those who aren't keen on forming a union. Unions love lists, after all, and wouldn't be shy about publishing the names (or worse) of everyone who didn't send in their card.

How would you like to have your name on a "pseudo-scab" list easily "googled" for the rest of your working career floating around? Like retribution and labor pressure at work much?

It's clearly bad for big labor union drives.

Individual's rights to make up their minds in peace with a secret ballot might think their rights are more important.



While your ballot concerns may be valid (I have no knowledge of any such practice of "lists" other than the true scab list), they are a deflection from the main concerns of this article, which involve efforts to eliminate your choices at ALL of being able to get a union in the first place. It also foreshadows some serious upheaval attempts for unions now in place, which is cause for an "eyes wide open" approach in dealing with such people.
THAT's the primary concern here.
 
Voice of Reason:

Given recent history & the joint pilot working agreement, do you have any comment on this?
When gas gets even higher this summer, and people radically cut their travel, and the DL pilots continue to be taken in by every trick from the "CONFESSIONS OF A UNION BUSTER" handbook, and when by January (the month that your alleged new union busting contract starts) the new (even worse) economy will deem it null & void...that'll be okay, because even though you'll see none of it, you consorted with greedy CEOs (who will be long gone soon) to ensure that the mass furloughs will occur via the NWA guys you did INDEED "throw under the bus."
Your pilot group will be looked on accordingly in the industry an ALL that comes with that rep, I assure you.
Ford & Harrison has made a decades old career of outwitting the naive in the pilot ranks, and you fell for it in such a textbook way. Sad.
As for ALPA NATIONAL: You should be ashamed of all that you have allowed to occur, and I'm betting the USAPA is just the beginning of your troubles if you don't IMMEDIATELY deny the actions of the DL MEC. This industry has been infected by ills that ALPA, with all their resources and access to lobbyists has ignored! THAT is why your end is near unless you ACT NOW!
I have all the respect in the world for the NWA guys who have seen this happen again and again, and KNOW what is coming. SUUUURE you're getting a raise and "equity stake" (nevermind the market dumps on this deal, or the RECESSION, or the GAS prices still skyrocketing, and people who won't be buying (the newly raised in a recession) tickets.
Hello????? NWA guys are willing to stand their ground to protect SENIORITY that we all hold dear as pilots in EVERY part of the industry!
NOW do you get why seniority is all that matters???
Oh yeah, no...you don't...because you are STEALING from a perfectly stand alone carrier's account and stealing (in the name of "merger") a pilot group that you only want to pad the bottom when they DO INDEED furlough.
Thanks, Delta MEC for helping to aid in the ills of this industry, and greatly limiting all pilot's options to join the majors for a LEGITIMATE career with legitimate seniority.
In reality, the Delta MEC and ALPA lead the Delta pilots to ratify a JPWA that achieved the primary goal of bringing the NWA pilots to parity. What was voted for, is unity.

The Delta and Northwest pilots are making historical precendent with this merger by getting wage and equity gains on the front end. We are making history on the SLI front as well.

You must admit your criticism was unfair.

Ford and Harrison, like all lawyers, represent their clients. You might have a valid point in Mike Campbell, but I've not seen it from my front row seat. Since emergence from bankruptcy, Delta has been good to its employees. If asked by a NWA flight attendant for an honest opinion, I'd say the DAL FA's are treated better than the NWA FA's. The Delta FA's get a lot of "me too" off the pilots which might not be the case otherwise.

The union busting has occurred on the NWA property with the mechanics. I humbly suggest that you try to be more objective.

~~~^~~~
 
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:beer:

I'm curious as to whether this is a 'preemptive' response to the labor bill being talked up in the media as of late. Whatever it is, whenever firms make an active effort to restrict union activity, even under such a mundane guise as this, it is frightening. The only thing that has happened over the last 20-30 years is that union power has been slowly but surely chipped away without reprisal.
 
This is about the push by big labor to get rid of the secret ballot for union drives and replace it with "signature cards" which would place considerably more public pressure on those who aren't keen on forming a union. Unions love lists, after all, and wouldn't be shy about publishing the names (or worse) of everyone who didn't send in their card.

How would you like to have your name on a "pseudo-scab" list easily "googled" for the rest of your working career floating around? Like retribution and labor pressure at work much?

It's clearly bad for big labor union drives.

Individual's rights to make up their minds in peace with a secret ballot might think their rights are more important.



Actually, that has nothing to do with this. You're referring to the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) which would only apply to NLRA unions, and wouldn't apply to RLA unions. That has no bearing on this article. This article is referring to the past practice of the NMB accepting just authorization cards to certify a union as long as there are at least 50% +1 of the members signing them and management doesn't object. They're changing their past practice in this case and refusing to even entertain their long-standing policy. Just yet another case of the most anti-labor administration in American history screwing over the little guy.

Vote Obama in November if you want to have any semblance of a decent career.
 
Raskal:

Yes, but we really have done it to ourselves by selling out scope.

We've voted yes on outsourcing our jobs.
 
Raskal:

Yes, but we really have done it to ourselves by selling out scope.

We've voted yes on outsourcing our jobs.

The loss of union power in this industry is far more related to the political realities in Washington than the selling out of scope. Yes, scope is a big issue, and you and I are mostly on the same page there, but the Reagan and two Bush administrations have done more to harm our power as organized labor than any scope sellouts could ever do.
 
Voice of Reason:

Given recent history & the joint pilot working agreement, do you have any comment on this?


Ford and Harrison, like all lawyers, represent their clients. You might have a valid point in Mike Campbell, but I've not seen it from my front row seat.
I humbly suggest that you try to be more objective.

~~~^~~~

I humbly suggest YOU try to be more cautious... While things look good there right now (comparatively), I stand by my observation that one of the founding members of the most notoriously pilot hating UNION BUSTING law firms (not just "any lawyer representing their client") was brought on for a REASON...and I trust you realize it isn't anywhere near over yet.... Let's see how "happy happy joy joy" F & H makes it for you after the merger is truly APPROVED.
 
:beer:

Whatever it is, whenever firms make an active effort to restrict union activity, even under such a mundane guise as this, it is frightening. The only thing that has happened over the last 20-30 years is that union power has been slowly but surely chipped away without reprisal.

Exactly!
 
Vote Obama in November if you want to have any semblance of a decent career.

I already have a decent career (far better than I ever hoped or imagined, actually), but thanks anyway. Don't you?

Surely you're not counting on a politician to guarantee you a solid career path? If you are, get ready for some serious disappointment.
 
I humbly suggest YOU try to be more cautious... .
So you don't want to explain your post where you call the Delta pilots every name in the book?
Voice of Reason said:
...the DL pilots continue to be taken in by every trick from the "CONFESSIONS OF A UNION BUSTER" handbook, ..., you consorted with greedy CEOs (who will be long gone soon) to ensure that the mass furloughs will occur via the NWA guys you did INDEED "throw under the bus."
Your pilot group will be looked on accordingly in the industry an ALL that comes with that rep, I assure you.

I'm betting the USAPA is just the beginning of your troubles if you don't IMMEDIATELY deny the actions of the DL MEC.

I have all the respect in the world for the NWA guys who have seen this happen again and again, and KNOW what is coming. SUUUURE you're getting a raise and "equity stake" (nevermind the market dumps on this deal, or the RECESSION, or the GAS prices still skyrocketing, and people who won't be buying (the newly raised in a recession) tickets.
Hello????? NWA guys are willing to stand their ground to protect SENIORITY that we all hold dear as pilots in EVERY part of the industry!
NOW do you get why seniority is all that matters???
Oh yeah, no...you don't...because you are STEALING Thanks, Delta MEC for helping to aid in the ills of this industry, and greatly limiting all pilot's options to join the majors for a LEGITIMATE career with legitimate seniority.
Unless you explain your previous posts that were so wrong then your new posts will considered the same as your previous rantings were. You even linked to your post in "I told you so" fashion.

IMHO, as someone who has sat with and across from F&H counsel, Ford and Harrison are average attorneys who represent their clients. At my previous airline our Reps both beat them and got them re-assigned. Of course F&H won a few also. McKinsey is a much tougher adversary because they get the ear of the beancounters and get your entire job classification outsourced. If you want to tilt at Windmills, here is a terrific point to focus on:
http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/Tr...ational_model_for_airlines_1700_abstract?gp=1
 
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